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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:10 pm 
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Apologizes. I'm 99% sure this has been asked before but I couldn't find it.

If you're building an SBR (AR) with a rail that extends beyond the barrel, do you measure the length to the end of the barrel or rail? Thanks


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:48 pm 
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JustAnotherSnakeCult wrote:
Apologizes. I'm 99% sure this has been asked before but I couldn't find it.

If you're building an SBR (AR) with a rail that extends beyond the barrel, do you measure the length to the end of the barrel or rail? Thanks


Short BARREL Rifle... I'd have to look up the actual reference but it's the barrel.

Bonus points for creativity though! :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:55 pm 
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91Eunozs wrote:
JustAnotherSnakeCult wrote:
Apologizes. I'm 99% sure this has been asked before but I couldn't find it.

If you're building an SBR (AR) with a rail that extends beyond the barrel, do you measure the length to the end of the barrel or rail? Thanks


Short BARREL Rifle... I'd have to look up the actual reference but it's the barrel.

Bonus points for creativity though! :wink:

Remember that overall length is measured as well.

That said, per: http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8-chapter-2.pdf

Quote:
The overall length of a firearm is the distance between the muzzle of the barrel and the rearmost portion
of the weapon measured on a line parallel to the axis of the bore.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:39 pm 
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Thanks! Barrel makes sense but how often do ATF regs make sense?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:27 pm 
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If you're building an SBR... why does it matter? You can make it as short as you want. No one is going to measure it.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:55 pm 
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Have to put something on the stamp. For an AR, it matters less because of the lego upper ability, but with somethign less ridiculously modular, it wouldn't do to submit incorrect paperwork. Not likely anyone would ever check, but is it worth the risk? Nope. Same reason I left an extra quarter inch when I cut down one of my single barrels, it didn't hurt me at all and it helps prevent a little bit of hassle if someone ever checks it and their Harbor Freight tape measure if off by a pubesbreadth.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:59 pm 
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Would attaching a Sig SB15 arm brace to a KelTec PLR-16 constitute an SBR since you must attach an AR stock adapter (thus intent and all?), or would it still be a pistol? Or is this a legal gray area?

Cause I've got to admit, a PLR16 with an ACE adapter hooked up to an SB15 and a Burris FastFire RDS seems like a pretty sweet little PDW.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:09 pm 
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Dogan wrote:
Would attaching a Sig SB15 arm brace to a KelTec PLR-16 constitute an SBR since you must attach an AR stock adapter (thus intent and all?), or would it still be a pistol? Or is this a legal gray area?

Cause I've got to admit, a PLR16 with an ACE adapter hooked up to an SB15 and a Burris FastFire RDS seems like a pretty sweet little PDW.

Historically, the reason the buffer tube-mounted brace is allowed is that the buffer tube is a required part of the AR. If you don't want an AR, consider the AK version: http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-accessories/sb47-stabilizing-brace-detail.html?Itemid=0

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:33 pm 
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If you can do that to an AK, can you also do that to a Glock? Seems reasonable, as neither require a buffer tube, but many have noted that "reasonable" has very little to do with ATF's decisions.

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Last edited by eeb on Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:34 pm 
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eeb wrote:
If you can do that to an AK, can you also do that to a Glock?

Submit your design to ATF for approval and wait for a reply. Could be money in it.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:45 pm 
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I'll leave it for Mako ;) Think they have a similar design already, just need to convert from a buttstock to arm brace/strap setup.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:38 am 
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Is my door going to be kicked in/house raided/family terrorized/dog shot because I bought an EP Armory 80% lower from Ares Armory?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:11 pm 
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Rugger wrote:
Is my door going to be kicked in/house raided/family terrorized/dog shot because I bought an EP Armory 80% lower from Ares Armory?


No. They just want to know you have it... just in case.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:32 pm 
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Rugger wrote:
Is my door going to be kicked in/house raided/family terrorized/dog shot because I bought an EP Armory 80% lower from Ares Armory?


Maybe

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:23 am 
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Rugger wrote:
Is my door going to be kicked in/house raided/family terrorized/dog shot because I bought an EP Armory 80% lower from Ares Armory?


Well, that all depends. Does your house have windows which men (suspended via helicopter) can repel through with smoke canisters, laser beams, etc? If not, then you're probably good.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:41 am 
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Historically speaking, you'll get a letter first.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:58 am 
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ATF has determined putting the buffer tube or the AR Brace on your shoulder does not constitute constructing an unlawful SBR.

Yupe, you can put that AR pistol on your shoulder.

There is a letter but I can't access it from work. If someone else can post it?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:17 am 
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GBM beat me to the punch.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/216207869/SIG-BATFE-LETTER

Quote:
For the following reasons, we have determined that firing a pistol from the shoulder would not cause the pistol to be reclassified as an Short Barreled Rifle (SBR).

FTB classifies weapons based on their physical design characteristics. While usage/functionality of the weapon does influence intended design, it is not the sole criterion for determining the classification of a weapon. Generally speaking, we do not classify weapons based on how an individual uses a weapon.

FTB has previously determined (see FTB #99146) that the firing of a weapon from a particular position, such as placing the receiver extension of an AR-15 type pistol on the user's shoulder, does not change the classification of a weapon. Further, certain firearm accessories such as the SIG Stability Brace have not been classified by FTB as shoulder stocks and, therefore, using the brace improperly does not constitute a design change. Using an accessory improperly would not change the classification of a weapon per Federal law. However FTB cannot recommend using a weapon (or weapon accessory) in a manner not intended by the manufacturer.


Some emphasis mine.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:42 am 
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Anybody know if the NFA background check is the same as the NCIS? I got an ELS from the USMC as a wee lad but have bought over a dozen guns since then and have a CHL. I think I'm gtg.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:11 am 
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AS556 wrote:
Anybody know if the NFA background check is the same as the NCIS? I got an ELS from the USMC as a wee lad but have bought over a dozen guns since then and have a CHL. I think I'm gtg.

It's different than NCIS/JAGO/JPAS and from the basic NICS check too. ELS won't affect anything, it's no different than any other ADSEP. Only discharge that could hurt your background check would be a a BCD, DD, or a psych-related medsep.

The worst thing about the NFA application process is the ridiculous backlog.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:09 am 
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Ok question...

I have a stripped lower sitting in my safe from a year ago that I was planning on turning into a M16A4 clone, but with WA legalizing SBRs in june I want to jump on the band wagon asap. So can I take my stripped and send its serial number and all the other info I need off to the ATF with my moneyz or should I just buy a whole 'nother stripped lower to use?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:05 am 
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I say get the ball rolling but build it into a pistol to play with for now.

Thanks doc, ZS may just have a new shorty and can owner.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 6:06 am 
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Ugh, after looking at a 300 blackout upper and seeing how awesome it would be to use for hunting, i want an SBR. Time to get a form 1 going for my lower. Is the wait still over 6 months?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:10 am 
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Brotherbadger wrote:
Ugh, after looking at a 300 blackout upper and seeing how awesome it would be to use for hunting, i want an SBR. Time to get a form 1 going for my lower. Is the wait still over 6 months?


Yep. BOHICA.

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