Building a kit: Legality?

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DOHC_Holiday
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Building a kit: Legality?

Post by DOHC_Holiday » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:04 pm

I was looking at this on Gunbroker. Question: if I were to put this thing together, could I legally sell it at some point? Would I just be assembling it, or would I be building it? I put together a semi-auto Sten gun once, but the receiver was just a tube with "cut here" markings on it, so I actually built that gun, and I don't believe I could legally sell it without a manufacturer's license.

But this is a manufactured receiver already, so I'd just be putting it together, like people do with ARs all the time, right? And while I am on the topic, what about those AK receivers that are just flat steel and you bend them to shape yourself? Do they consider you the manufacturer of the weapon, or what?
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Re: Building a kit: Legality?

Post by spacecase0 » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:21 pm

if the receiver already has a serial # then it should be treated like any other gun, it does not matter if it is taken apart.
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Re: Building a kit: Legality?

Post by yossarian » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:24 pm

Hi folks long time lurker, first time poster. Usually don't have anything constructive that DavePAL or a few others can't say better but this requires an immediate reply. Note the name of the seller...........RUN AWAY. Unless of course you are building this in order to defend a large retail shopping complex.
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Re: Building a kit: Legality?

Post by Dark Angel » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:33 pm

yossarian wrote:Hi folks long time lurker, first time poster. Usually don't have anything constructive that DavePAL or a few others can't say better but this requires an immediate reply. Note the name of the seller...........RUN AWAY. Unless of course you are building this in order to defend a large retail shopping complex.
+1 it looks like a barrel under 16" SO the guy is selling a unregistered sbr. personally, i wouldnt want to go to jail for that.
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Re: Building a kit: Legality?

Post by M1aMatt » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:35 pm

Ummmm, I don't see a 16" barrel anywhere in that package, yet I also see a butt stock. That would have to be SBR'd right?
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Re: Building a kit: Legality?

Post by 1EyedDeath » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:44 pm

DOHC_Holiday wrote:I was looking at

But this is a manufactured receiver already, so I'd just be putting it together, like people do with ARs all the time, right??
I would say in this instance yes you would be assembling it..
DOHC_Holiday wrote: Do they consider you the manufacturer of the weapon, or what?
When you build a part of a weapon thats controlled like the reciever,yes you are a manufacturing it..

This looks shady as hell..I would ask if the controlled parts are serialized..
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Re: Building a kit: Legality?

Post by Seven_Sicks_Two » Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:57 pm

yossarian wrote:Note the name of the seller...........RUN AWAY. Unless of course you are building this in order to defend a large retail shopping complex.
SBR issues aside, Special Weapons is known for spotty (to say the least) QC, poorly fitted and finished parts and piss-poor customer service. I won't say a whole lot more except that there is a direct link between Coharie and Special Weapons. If I were you, I'd save my lunch money for something of better quality.

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Re: Building a kit: Legality?

Post by Necrodamus » Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:09 pm

I have built over 6 rifles so I guess Im qualified to answer this...
Serial number or NOT it doesnt matter, you must comply with all laws federal and state.
So if the barrel isnt long enough then get rid of the barrel dont even keep it around.

If you have a long enough barrel and enough US made parts to comply with import laws then you can assemble it.
EVEN IF YOU MAKE THE RECEIVER YOUR NOT A MANUFACTURER!
If you make a rifle from scratch entirely your still not a manufacturer, your a crafstman.
Here is the trick... as long as when you built the rifle it was intended for you and later you decided to sell it your OK.
At the time you decide to sell it you must serialize it and register that Serial Number with BATFE.
If all of a sudden your registering numbers the investigation will start. When you start making them for profit and are not keeping them your in trouble.
Protect your family, if your making a rifle and passing it to a member of your family when you die you need to have provisions for that and it has to be handled like any other firearm which means it needs a number on it.

In the US its still legal to be a craftsman and to invent and create as long as your piece of art complies with all current law (that prohibits silencers, macine guns, destructive devices, SBS, SBR, and AOW, etc)

EDITED to add...
This is true of all NON NFA weapons
NFA goes into a whole different realm of laws where you CANT manufacture and just assembling without a tax stamp will land you in the pokey
Last edited by Necrodamus on Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Building a kit: Legality?

Post by Snakedriver » Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:10 pm

To be fair, it looks like the barrel and a fake sound suppressor are together in one of the bags. This means you could either register SBR, build a pistol on the virgin lower, or perm. affix the supressor to the barrel. I would still walk away from this deal, considering Todd/SW/CA rep, but I don;t think this is an ATF sting either.
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Re: Building a kit: Legality?

Post by 1EyedDeath » Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:30 pm

whats considered a sporting model?..Right from the BATF

(A6) Does the GCA prohibit anyone from making a handgun, shotgun or rifle? [Back]

With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a non-licensee provided it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing firearms. However, a person is prohibited from assembling a non-sporting semi-automatic rifle or non-sporting shotgun from imported parts. In addition, the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and approval by ATF. An application to make a machine gun will not be approved unless documentation is submitted showing that the firearm is being made for a Federal or State agency.

[18 U.S.C. 922(o) and (r), 26 U.S.C. 5822, 27 CFR 478.39, 479.62 and 479.105]
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Re: Building a kit: Legality?

Post by DOHC_Holiday » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:03 pm

[Thanks for the recommendations against SW, but this is largely a hypothetical. I just wanted to understand the laws better.]

That being said, what if I wanted to build this as a registered, legal SBR? Could I order it and not assemble it until I got the approval from the ATF, or is just having the gun kit and short barrel illegal, like if you have an AR and full-auto parts?
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Re: Building a kit: Legality?

Post by Unorthodox » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:10 pm

Having the components disassembled and in the same domicile is considered "Intent to Manufacture (SBR, MG, etc)"

Doesn't matter if it's not put together, so long as the pieces to create a fully assembled restricted weapon are there...they can nail you.

Stay away from SW anyhoo...they're in the same ballpark as Vulcan/Hesse
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Re: Building a kit: Legality?

Post by SMoAF » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:07 pm

Flock of Seagulls time.
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Re: Building a kit: Legality?

Post by psychomajortom » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:38 pm

i was thinking Soft Cell...
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Re: Building a kit: Legality?

Post by DOHC_Holiday » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:55 pm

SMoAF wrote:Flock of Seagulls time.
psychomajortom wrote:i was thinking Soft Cell...
I don't know what any of that means. :?:
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Re: Building a kit: Legality?

Post by MJS8725 » Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:51 pm

SMoAF wrote:Flock of Seagulls time.

Here you go.
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Re: Building a kit: Legality?

Post by DOHC_Holiday » Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:55 pm

MJS8725 wrote:
SMoAF wrote:Flock of Seagulls time.

Here you go.
Yeah, I know who Flock of Seagulls is, I just don't see the relevance to the topic.
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Re: Building a kit: Legality?

Post by M1aMatt » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:01 am

They suck?
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Re: Building a kit: Legality?

Post by Dr. Quickdraw McGraw » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:22 am

Necrodamus wrote: In the US its still legal to be a craftsman and to invent and create as long as your piece of art complies with all current law (that prohibits silencers, macine guns, destructive devices, SBS, SBR, and AOW, etc)

IIRC you must submit any new designs for semi-auto rifles to the BATF for approval before you build it. They will tell you if you can then build it based on how difficult it is to convert to full auto. Again this is only for new designs, not for an already existing approved design.
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Re: Building a kit: Legality?

Post by bookshop » Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:44 am

DOHC_Holiday wrote:
MJS8725 wrote:
SMoAF wrote:Flock of Seagulls time.

Here you go.
Yeah, I know who Flock of Seagulls is, I just don't see the relevance to the topic.
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Re: Building a kit: Legality?

Post by colinz » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:48 am

DOHC_Holiday wrote:
MJS8725 wrote:
SMoAF wrote: Flock of Seagulls time.
Here you go.
Yeah, I know who Flock of Seagulls is, I just don't see the relevance to the topic.
Song lyrics. Seriously dude, I'm a retard and I still caught it. :P

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Re: Building a kit: Legality?

Post by DOHC_Holiday » Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:45 am

colinz wrote:Song lyrics. Seriously dude, I'm a retard and I still caught it. :P
Maybe it's a retarded joke. :lol:
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