Range question - does this seem a bit low?

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Brit-ZedHunter
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Range question - does this seem a bit low?

Post by Brit-ZedHunter » Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:56 am

I was looking at joining a Rifle club which is really close to me, but I just noticed this on their website:
The maximum muzzle energy of 1496 ft/lbs and maximum velocity of 2150 ft/second apply to all ranges.
Does this not seem a bit low? What would I actually be able to shoot on this? Just .22?

EDIT - This is just for rifles btw.

Thanks in advance guys
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Re: Range question - does this seem a bit low?

Post by Domino » Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:04 am

Yeah that is pretty low and limiting...

Taken from

http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_ballistics_table.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Cartridge (Wb + type) MV (fps) V @ 200 yds ME (ft lb) E @ 200 yds
.204 Ruger (33 BTSP) 4225 3025 1308 671
.22 Hornet (45 Sp) 2690 1502 723 225
.222 Rem. (50 Sp) 3140 2123 1094 500
.223 Rem. (55 Sp) 3240 2304 1282 648
.22-250 Rem. (55 Sp) 3680 2656 1654 861
.220 Swift (55 SpBT) 3800 2990 1765 1090
.223 WSSM (55 SpBT) 3850 3064 1810 1147
.243 Win. (80 Sp) 3350 2593 1993 1194
.243 Win. (100 Sp) 2960 2449 1945 1332
6mm Rem. (100 Sp) 3100 2573 2133 1470
.243 WSSM (100 Sp) 3110 2583 2147 1481
.240 Wby. Mag. (100 Sp) 3406 2882 2576 1844
.257 Roberts (120 Sp) 2780 2360 2060 1480
.25 WSSM (120 Sp) 2990 2484 2382 1644
.25-06 Rem. (120 Sp) 2990 2484 2382 1644
.257 Wby. Mag. (120 Sp) 3305 2801 2910 2091
.260 Rem. (140 Sp) 2750 2347 2351 1712
6.5x55 SE (140 Sp) 2600 2220 2100 1525
6.5mm Rem. Mag. (120 Sp) 3210 2778 2744 2056
6.5x68 S (140 Sp) 2990 2580 2779 2069
.264 Win. Mag. (140 Sp) 3030 2548 2854 2018
6.8mm Rem. SPC (115 Sp) 2800 2262 2002 1307
.270 Win. (130 Sp) 3060 2639 2702 2009
.270 Win. (150 Sp) 2850 2183 2705 1587
.270 WSM (150 Sp) 3150 2601 3304 2252
.270 Wby. Mag. (150 Sp) 3245 2823 3502 2655
7x57 Mauser (140 Sp) 2660 2260 2200 1585
7mm-08 Rem. (140 Sp) 2860 2402 2542 1793
.280 Rem. (140 Sp) 3000 2528 2797 1986
7mm Rem. SAUM (150 Sp) 3110 2563 3221 2188
7mm WSM (150 Sp) 3200 2648 3410 2335
7mm Rem. Mag. (150 SpBT) 3110 2751 3221 2520
7mm Wby. Mag. (150 SpBT) 3300 2896 3627 2793
7mm Ultra Mag. (160 Sp) 3200 2791 3637 2767
.30 Carbine (110 RN) 1990 1236 967 373
.30-30 Win. (150 FP) 2390 1605 1902 858
.30-30 Win. (170 FP) 2200 1619 1827 989
.300 Sav. (150 Sp) 2630 2095 2303 1462
.308 Win. (150 Sp) 2820 2288 2648 1744
.308 Win. (180 Sp) 2620 2198 2743 1930
.30-06 Spfd. (150 Sp) 2910 2342 2820 1827
.30-06 Spfd. (180 Sp) 2700 2023 2913 1635
.300 Rem. SAUM (180 Sp) 2960 2571 3501 2642
.300 WSM (180 Sp) 2970 2549 3526 2598
.300 Win. Mag. (180 Sp) 2960 2540 3501 2578
.300 Wby. Mag. (180 Sp) 3240 2826 4195 3193
.300 Ultra Mag. (180 Sp) 3250 2834 4221 3201
7.62x39 (125 Sp) 2365 1783 1552 882
.303 British (180 Sp) 2460 2020 2420 1625
.32 Spec. (170 FP) 2250 1630 1910 1000
8x57 JS (170 RN) 2360 1620 2100 995
.338-57 O'Connor (200 FP) 2400 1638 2558 1191
.338 Win. Mag. (225 Sp) 2780 2374 3860 2815
.340 Wby. Mag. (250 Sp) 2941 2553 4801 3618
.338 Ultra Mag (250 Sp) 2860 2443 4540 3314
.357 Mag. (180 HP) 1550 980 960 385
.35 Rem. (200 RN) 2080 1376 1921 841
.35 Whelen (200 Sp) 2675 2100 3177 1958
.350 Rem. Mag. (200 Sp) 2775 2186 3419 2122
9.3x62 (286 SpBT) 2362 1931 3544 2370
.375 H&H Mag. (300 Sp) 2530 1979 4262 2608
.375 Ultra Mag (300 Sp) 2760 2263 5073 3412
.378 Wby. Mag. (270 SP) 3180 2677 6062 4295
.416 Rem. Mag. (400 Sp) 2400 1962 5115 3419
.416 Rigby (400 RN) 2370 1890 4990 3130
.44 Rem. Mag. (240 FP) 1760 1114 1650 661
.444 Marlin (240 FP) 2350 1377 2942 1010
.450 Marlin (350 FP) 2100 1397 3427 1516
.45-70 (300 HP) 1810 1244 2182 1031
.45-70 (405 FP) 1330 1055 1590 1001
.458 Win. Mag. (500 RN) 2090 1650 4850 3025
.460 Wby. Mag. (500 RN) 2600 2037 7504 4605


Are you just going to be shooting .308 Winchester? If so you would need VERY mild loads in order to achieve this. With the .223 it is not even practical. However with a .357 magnum lever gun this would be achievable.

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Re: Range question - does this seem a bit low?

Post by Brit-ZedHunter » Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:20 am

Looking at that chart, it looks like .223 is about the limit and maybe some rimfire..

I'm hoping there is something wrong with these figures. Maybe I should mail the guys at the range. I don't want to pay out money (and go through a 3 month probabtion) to basically be able to shoot air rifles.

Or am I missing something?

EDIT - I mailed the guy asking if the figures are correct and what kind of things the other members shoot.
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Re: Range question - does this seem a bit low?

Post by Hoppy » Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:46 am

seems like some of you guys need to find new ranges.

the only rules here besides basic safety ones ( 4 rules, + stuff like, dont shoot rocks etc) is one range has " no machine guns on Sunday"

oh, in some further research, its the 11th commandment. it was on the 3rd tablet Moses dropped.
"Though shalt not operate belt fed weaponry on the Sabbath" right next to "Thou Shalt police thy own brass" and "Though shalt not brass rat until the shooter has left the range"
No one has a sense for the dramatic.

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Re: Range question - does this seem a bit low?

Post by TravisM.1 » Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:46 am

Brit-ZedHunter wrote:Looking at that chart, it looks like .223 is about the limit and maybe some rimfire..
You'd probably be able to shoot some bigger stuff like 45-70, also.
I sold my soul to the devil for a .45, a black cowboy hat and a switchblade knife.......

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Re: Range question - does this seem a bit low?

Post by Brit-ZedHunter » Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:09 am

The other thing is, on the website it also says:
A large number of different rifles are used at the club such as .22 target rifles, Gallery rifle shooting (.22 semi-automatic and pistol calibre lever action), historical rifles such as blackpowder 45/70 Buffalo rifles, and service rifles such as the modern AR15 straight pull or Martini Henry rifles from the days of Empire.
Service rifles such as ar15? Wouldnt that be a little more powerful? (i guess it could be a .22 conversion or something?)
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Re: Range question - does this seem a bit low?

Post by zoiders » Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:15 pm

Hmmmm

Sounds like they are shooting on an MOD gallery range which will have a brick built stop-but full of sand, it will be a 30 meter range that was originally used for pistol and SMG shooting, no rifles

You will usually see the sign "NO GPMG!" on these ranges, which means no 7.62 or similar as they dont want you chopping big holes in the brick wall

These days they do shoot 5.56 on them but nothing bigger, ask if they have the use of a full size range as well, they may not as the forces are very busy at the minute and will always get priority when it comes to booking a 500M range for training

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Re: Range question - does this seem a bit low?

Post by Brit-ZedHunter » Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:24 pm

They have:

25m
50m
100m

Ranges

In yards thats:

27.340332458442695 Yards
54.68066491688539 Yards
109.36132983377078 Yards

Ok, I may have gone a little overboard with the decimals.

I had a look to see if there are any ranges nearby that will let me shoot larger calibers. I was hoping for .308 or something :) Apparently, there arent any. So I guess I will go ahead and join this club. At least it means I can work on getting my FAC.

I hope I didnt offend the guy by mailing him asking if the range was 'limited to rimfire and 0.22'.
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Re: Range question - does this seem a bit low?

Post by zoiders » Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:41 pm

Walk before you can run, if you arent hitting putting the rounds in a nice neat grouping with irons at 100 then having a full length range is a moot point

You will impress them more as to your patience and determination to learn the marksmanship principles if you learn to shoot well with irons at 100, turning up with a scoped up sneaky beaky go faster rifle and no clue will not endere you to them

25, 50, 100

Small steps young jedi...small steps

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Re: Range question - does this seem a bit low?

Post by colinz » Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:52 pm

I think it was more the point that the more powerful cartridges are severely restricted, rather than the range. :)

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Re: Range question - does this seem a bit low?

Post by zoiders » Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:00 pm

colinz wrote:I think it was more the point that the more powerful cartridges are severely restricted, rather than the range. :)
Same ball park

Start small and work your way up, spunking rounds everywhere with your brand new big bore boom stick will not be seen as cricket

"I say, did that chap learn to shoot fiirst with a more modest rifle or did he just start blazing away with an elephant gun?"

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Re: Range question - does this seem a bit low?

Post by Brit-ZedHunter » Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:19 pm

You are right I suppose ;)

I need to take it slow. Going to get my membership application in on monday and take it from there.
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Re: Range question - does this seem a bit low?

Post by planter » Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:59 pm

Can I ask what club it is and what range? There might be a different one nearby with more facilities...

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Re: Range question - does this seem a bit low?

Post by Wolfhvnter » Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:07 pm

Pretty much every Pistol Caliber Carbine will be fine.

Given that you're English, I'd look at one of the Enforcers.
naegling62 wrote:Well the only thing I can say is that I have a Carcano and that design is so bad it does lend to the idea of a 2nd shooter.

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Re: Range question - does this seem a bit low?

Post by Brit-ZedHunter » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:14 am

planter wrote:Can I ask what club it is and what range? There might be a different one nearby with more facilities...
It's Wedgnock Rifle and Pistol Club, its near Warwick. http://www.wedgnock.co.uk/index.html

I live in Coventry.

EDIT - So the range is approx 15miles from me.

My main reason for looking at that particlar range is that its on the site that I already shoot clays. But I would happily travel a little further for somewhere with better facilities (and with a range certified for a wider range of calibers)

I have the application filled out but I will wait to hear back from you before I send it off. After Big and Daft said his range allows .308 it made me jealous :p
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Re: Range question - does this seem a bit low?

Post by planter » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:28 pm

Couple of clubs I've found from an initial search:

http://www.drpc1999.com/index.php?optio ... e&Itemid=1
http://www.westderbyshirerifles.co.uk/index.html - This one looks interesting because they have access to military ranges
http://www.wnsc.co.uk/index.html - they have Practical Shotgun facilities

I'm asking arouind if there's anything else and I'll get back to you.

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Re: Range question - does this seem a bit low?

Post by Big and Daft » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:36 pm

Brit-ZedHunter wrote: After Big and Daft said his range allows .308 it made me jealous :p
But you could make me (and maybe a few of the members on here) more jealous if you can become a member of a club that does practical shotgun and get Shotgun on your FAC, because then you could get a Saiga 12 - which I would love.
As for the range, if you could only get a .22 semi and a .38/.357 lever gun you'd be VERY well set, especially with your Mossberg in the mix.

FYI, I know of someone who is selling a Remington Wingmaster for £175, if I had the room in my cabinet, i'd be on it like the proverbial tramp on a kipper!

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Re: Range question - does this seem a bit low?

Post by planter » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:43 pm

It's not the Wingmaster that's on Guntrader is it? If it is, that's a good price - I'd buy it myself if I lived closer.

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Re: Range question - does this seem a bit low?

Post by Brit-ZedHunter » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:50 pm

That west debryshire one looked interesting but: http://www.westderbyshirerifles.co.uk/index.html
We are NOT accepting new membership applications at the moment. Please check back soon.
August 2008
:( :(

Derby Rifle and Pistol club says: http://www.drpc1999.com/index.php?optio ... e&Itemid=1
Currently the Membership is closed. If you wish to apply for consideration at the beginning of 2009 please submit an Application Form and you will be placed on the waiting list.
Also they have a 6 month probationary period, this seems a bit severe :(

The other one: http://www.wnsc.co.uk/index.html
Looks very cool :) They do have a membership cap as well so there might be a waiting list. Also, it is just under 50 miles away so that might be a bit far.

I really appreciate you putting in this effort. My searches really didnt come up with much.

What I might end up doing is joining the local one, just getting a .22lr or similar and learning to shoot and maybe later think of moving on to a range with better facilities. However, if there was something a little closer I would be very tempted. Seems like I live in a bit of a crappy area for shooting. Well, with the exception of clays. There are probably 10 or more clay grounds within under 20 miles.

I shot skeet today for the first time, using my Miroku mk38 sporting. Skeet is pretty fun too :)
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Re: Range question - does this seem a bit low?

Post by Big and Daft » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:56 pm

planter wrote:It's not the Wingmaster that's on Guntrader is it? If it is, that's a good price - I'd buy it myself if I lived closer.
It is on Guntrader, yes. The bloke who I bought my Pietta revolver off last night is selling it, he showed it me and its in great condition.

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Re: Range question - does this seem a bit low?

Post by planter » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:57 pm

One thing you can do is get your FAC with one club, then shoot on other clubs shoots - once you make a few contacts. The best thing to do is get on some of the military range shoots if you can. I'll ask around and see if I can find anything. Might be worth contacting the NRA, tell them what you want and see if they know of anything in your area.

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Re: Range question - does this seem a bit low?

Post by planter » Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:00 pm

Just noticed your comment about the probationary period - unless new members already hold an FAC, I think all clubs have this. It's a Home Office requirement.

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Re: Range question - does this seem a bit low?

Post by Brit-ZedHunter » Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:07 pm

Thanks for advice planter.

I wasn't surpised by the probationary period, just that this one was 6 months. The local one I looked at was 3 months and I just saw another which is 10 weeks.

I think I am going to join this local club. Its so convinient and just buying a .22 will be a cheap way to learn. I will try to stick to one decent gun like a 10/22 and get the basics down then maybe next year start looking for ranges that will allow me to max out my credit card :)

At least this way I can get my FAC.

This also gives me the option of shooting clays and target shooting in the same day which would be pretty fun :D I will get the Membership Application in the post tomorrow and hopefully make a start on the probationary period. They require 13 hrs of training before you can join also at approx £10 per session. Reading what they teach though it actually sounds pretty cool. Linky - http://www.wedgnock.co.uk/joining.html
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Re: Range question - does this seem a bit low?

Post by Big and Daft » Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:18 pm

Oh, they do black powder pistol shooting. You can get a cap and ball revolver, like mine :)

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