Question for you Lovers of Firearms.

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Urban Core
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Question for you Lovers of Firearms.

Post by Urban Core » Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:12 pm

I am looking for something for my lovely Lady whom has developed a passion for shooting. Now she's a fair hand with a gun but lacks the real strength to handle anything more then a .22 really. We tried a 9mm H&K the other day and it was a bit much for her. She's very tiny. But she loves her .22.

What I would like to know is if anyone has any recommendations for her on a handgun. Preferably something easy to shoot and something she might be able to carry around with her.

Suggestions o' slayers of dead things?
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Post by grand94jeep » Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:17 pm

Bersa Thunder .380 8)
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Post by jeepinbandtrider » Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:17 pm

Let her try more than just the H&K. Every H&K I've ever shot has a fairly large grip (which one did she shoot by the way?). I wouldn't let my wife out the front door with a .22 anything unless it a .223 coming out of a carbine.
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Post by Trebor » Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:34 pm

I suggest that you find a local instructor and that she get some quality training.

I've found almost all of my female students who previously believed they "weren't strong enough" for anything bigger then a .22 could shoot, at a minimum, 9mm and .38 Special just fine. They just had to learn some technique and get some proper instruction and coaching.

This includes both learning better techniques to work the action that let them operate pistols they thought were too hard before and techniques that let them manage the recoil better.

The only student I had who wound up ONLY being able to handle a .22 was a women with severe degenerative arthritis. She used to shoot a .38 revolver, but her arthritis worsened to the point where she couldn't fire more then two or three rounds using all of her effort and with only so-so results. She swtiched to a .22 and did well.

For all my other female students, and I've worked with hundreds, they found they could handle and shoot many more guns of larger caliber then they previously though.

Seriously, find a NRA instructor near you and have her take a class,

There is nothing wrong with shooting a .22 for recreation. She shouldn't think that's all she can shoot though if she's interested in self defense.
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Post by Urban Core » Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:41 pm

jeepinbandtrider wrote:Let her try more than just the H&K. Every H&K I've ever shot has a fairly large grip (which one did she shoot by the way?). I wouldn't let my wife out the front door with a .22 anything unless it a .223 coming out of a carbine.
I've always been a fan of H&K and I don't mind spending the extra money for a solid, reliable pistol. In this case she tried the H&K USP 9mm. She has also tried a Glock 17. Both are a bit much for her, she can fire them in a pinch but it does bad things to her arms. The .22 we find works nicely. I'd like to find a Semi-auto 22 that looks decent, handles well and won't shatter if/when she drops it.
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Post by Urban Core » Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:47 pm

Trebor wrote:I suggest that you find a local instructor and that she get some quality training.

I've found almost all of my female students who previously believed they "weren't strong enough" for anything bigger then a .22 could shoot, at a minimum, 9mm and .38 Special just fine. They just had to learn some technique and get some proper instruction and coaching.
You are 100% correct on this. Most people are just intimadated by the larger calibers and feel they can't handle it. With training, this is easy to correct. I've been shooting for many many years and I've trained her well. Granted, I am not a NRA trainer but I know my way around firearms and I am a serious safety-nazi. :)
This includes both learning better techniques to work the action that let them operate pistols they thought were too hard before and techniques that let them manage the recoil better.

The only student I had who wound up ONLY being able to handle a .22 was a women with severe degenerative arthritis. She used to shoot a .38 revolver, but her arthritis worsened to the point where she couldn't fire more then two or three rounds using all of her effort and with only so-so results. She swtiched to a .22 and did well.
Which is I am afraid exactly her case. She physically can't handle more then a .22 at the moment. I've even tried a .38 with her and that was a bit much.

You make very valid points, but in this case I'm afraid it will have to be a .22 for her. I'll be handling the larger calibers, she just likes to go to the range with me as a social activity and enjoys plinking/shooting. So a .22 is perfect, not the ideal self-defense round but as I always say, if you have to shoot then something has gone horribly wrong anyway.
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What about...nl

Post by Sol Invictus » Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:49 pm

...one of these:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... m=97318846

.17 is a pretty hot round with zero recoil. An 8 shot double-action stainless revolver is not a bad idea.

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Post by Bear_B » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:18 am

For a quality .22 you'd be very hard pressed to beat this...

http://www.gunblast.com/SW_317.htm
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Post by Urban Core » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:46 am

Bear_B wrote:For a quality .22 you'd be very hard pressed to beat this...

http://www.gunblast.com/SW_317.htm
I recommended that one myself. But her sense of style Veto'ed it I am afraid. She's a woman, thus is allowed to have a sense of visual needs.
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"Guns don't kill people. They bring people back to life. As zombies. The *zombies* kill people."
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Brash wrote: I'll be making wine. Fruit doesn't fight back. :D
You've obviously never startled a Watermelon.
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Post by Beanhead » Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:27 am

Have you given any consideration to moving up a few calibers? 22 magnum, 25 acp, 32 acp, and 380. are ok rounds. For her sense of style have you thought about something pink?
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Pink guns! ROCK!

Post by Urban Core » Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:35 am

Beanhead wrote:Have you given any consideration to moving up a few calibers? 22 magnum, 25 acp, 32 acp, and 380. are ok rounds. For her sense of style have you thought about something pink?
Awww sweet, pink handguns. I am *there* ..

.. ahem, anyway. I am considering the .380, I just like the fact that a .22 is easy to find, cheap and *very* ubiquitos. In short, easy to find ammo for it and to hump ammo in case of bugout. Anyone who's carried a shoulder band of 12guage ammo up a mountain well, it's heavier then it seems. That's all I'm going to say.

What would you recommend in the .380 acp category?
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Re: Pink guns! ROCK!

Post by Beanhead » Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:51 am

Urban Core wrote:
Beanhead wrote:Have you given any consideration to moving up a few calibers? 22 magnum, 25 acp, 32 acp, and 380. are ok rounds. For her sense of style have you thought about something pink?
Awww sweet, pink handguns. I am *there* ..

.. ahem, anyway. I am considering the .380, I just like the fact that a .22 is easy to find, cheap and *very* ubiquitos. In short, easy to find ammo for it and to hump ammo in case of bugout. Anyone who's carried a shoulder band of 12guage ammo up a mountain well, it's heavier then it seems. That's all I'm going to say.

What would you recommend in the .380 acp category?
Beretta makes some nice little 380s, and keltec has the P3AT, though it also is blowback operated so the slide is kind of heavy to pull back and chamber a round. Seecamp if you want to go with the .25, but you're going to spend some $money$ on that.
I don't like the Bersa because of the way it feels in my hand, that said, Im also not your girl, have her shoot some of the different calibers I mentioned, and find out what she can handle, then research who makes arms in those calibers.
It's really hard trying to match form and function to meet a females needs.
my girl has small hands and nothing I have fits her well.

BTW, When you said she vetoed the Smith 317, did you mean because it was a revolver or because it's kind of squat and ugly?
Omnes ad unum
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Post by Beanhead » Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:59 am

Im sorry when I was decribing the Keltec I meant to say "locked breech" not "blowback", I was thinking of the Hi-Point when I said that.

EDIT: gelgoog has a nice thread going on mouse guns you might want to check out
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Re: Pink guns! ROCK!

Post by Urban Core » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:31 am

Beanhead wrote:
Urban Core wrote:
Beanhead wrote:Have you given any consideration to moving up a few calibers? 22 magnum, 25 acp, 32 acp, and 380. are ok rounds. For her sense of style have you thought about something pink?
Awww sweet, pink handguns. I am *there* ..

.. ahem, anyway. I am considering the .380, I just like the fact that a .22 is easy to find, cheap and *very* ubiquitos. In short, easy to find ammo for it and to hump ammo in case of bugout. Anyone who's carried a shoulder band of 12guage ammo up a mountain well, it's heavier then it seems. That's all I'm going to say.

What would you recommend in the .380 acp category?
Beretta makes some nice little 380s, and keltec has the P3AT, though it also is blowback operated so the slide is kind of heavy to pull back and chamber a round. Seecamp if you want to go with the .25, but you're going to spend some $money$ on that.
I don't like the Bersa because of the way it feels in my hand, that said, Im also not your girl, have her shoot some of the different calibers I mentioned, and find out what she can handle, then research who makes arms in those calibers.
It's really hard trying to match form and function to meet a females needs.
my girl has small hands and nothing I have fits her well.

BTW, When you said she vetoed the Smith 317, did you mean because it was a revolver or because it's kind of squat and ugly?
Mostly because it's fuggly. Even I think that, and I could care less what I fire for the most part.

I will have to check on the .380's and see what she can handle.
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Post by Obiwan » Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:13 am

http://www.corneredcat.com/TOC.aspx#FirstGun

For the record...my daughters have shot every handgun I own.....while they have favorites, none of them is "too much" for them to shoot
"One is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." (LtCOL. Jeff Cooper U.S.M.C.)

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Post by MrAcheson » Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:13 am

If she has recoil problems then avoid the small blowback .380s and maybe even .32s. She probably won't like the snappy recoil. I shot a friend's bersa thunder and I was shocked with how slappy and downright painful the recoil was compared to my 9mm hipower. It was like an angry nun was smacking the web of my hand with a ruler with every shot. Uncomfortable.

Don't make the mistake of going to small guns in small calibers either. I've known very large men who won't shoot a whole box of .380 through their 3ATs. At 11oz. even a locked-breach .380 can recoil a lot.

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Post by drobs » Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:38 am

Trebor wrote:I suggest that you find a local instructor and that she get some quality training.

I've found almost all of my female students who previously believed they "weren't strong enough" for anything bigger then a .22 could shoot, at a minimum, 9mm and .38 Special just fine. They just had to learn some technique and get some proper instruction and coaching.

This includes both learning better techniques to work the action that let them operate pistols they thought were too hard before and techniques that let them manage the recoil better.

The only student I had who wound up ONLY being able to handle a .22 was a women with severe degenerative arthritis. She used to shoot a .38 revolver, but her arthritis worsened to the point where she couldn't fire more then two or three rounds using all of her effort and with only so-so results. She swtiched to a .22 and did well.

For all my other female students, and I've worked with hundreds, they found they could handle and shoot many more guns of larger caliber then they previously though.

Seriously, find a NRA instructor near you and have her take a class,

There is nothing wrong with shooting a .22 for recreation. She shouldn't think that's all she can shoot though if she's interested in self defense.
I 2nd this motion. I worked 5 years at a gunshop range and saw many women progress up from only shooting 22's to shooting 45's and 40's. One of our regulars was a petite asian woman in her 40's that every Wednesday would come and rent our Kimber 45 acp.

Another husband and wife combo shot competition with Glock 27's.
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Post by Organdonor » Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:55 am

My wife is looking for a handgun, too. She doesn't like revolvers, and I see a real need for her to carry a larger caliber than .380. She might only get a chance to pull off one shot, so it had better inflict the most amount of damage.

She held a few Glocks, but didn't care for them. She ended up really liking a Taurus compact .45. It has a single stack mag, so the grip fits in her little hand quite well, but without her pinky hanging off in the air. I think it's a 6 shot... so that should be good enough!

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Post by REB 27 » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:46 pm

Urban Core, you might want to let her try out an H&K P-7 if you are stuck on H&Ks. It's a 9mm squeeze cocker with very little recoil. I don't think that they're manufacturing them any more so you'll probably have to hunt one down. They are a "hoot to shoot," so to speak. :) If a little on the expensive side.
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Post by SpentBrass » Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:14 pm

My wife loves her Bersa Thunder .380 and is a helluva' shot with it! She also likes our 1911 because it's a "sexy kick!"

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Post by Urban Core » Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:06 pm

MrAcheson wrote:If she has recoil problems then avoid the small blowback .380s and maybe even .32s. She probably won't like the snappy recoil. I shot a friend's bersa thunder and I was shocked with how slappy and downright painful the recoil was compared to my 9mm hipower. It was like an angry nun was smacking the web of my hand with a ruler with every shot. Uncomfortable.

Don't make the mistake of going to small guns in small calibers either. I've known very large men who won't shoot a whole box of .380 through their 3ATs. At 11oz. even a locked-breach .380 can recoil a lot.
That's a very good point, shorter blowback will mean more of a snap in the recoil. I think perhaps a revolver, something a tad heavier might do nicely for her. I am considering a few Ruger .22's now for her. The extra weight of the gun will help compensate for the natural snap and a .22 is well within her range of control.
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