I owe the .45 fans an apology...

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Post by MarkTBSc » Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:09 pm

Mark Pearson wrote:The .45 is going to have more recoil.

After all, one .45 bullet is enough to take down a WW2 japanese fighter plane. :lol:
Especially if you wrap the pistol-grip with phone-cord. Then it can take out a tank.

:lol:
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Post by MarkTBSc » Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:13 pm

GoSlash27 wrote:
Flee your country, you are never going to have any fun there!
Way off topic, but +1!

Come to America, but make it quick 'cuz sooner or later they'll decide that nothing this fun should be legal and we'll all be screwed! :lol:
America's a nice place. I really like the people, the scenery, a lot of the laws and a lot of the spirit of the place... But I couldn't live there. The whole culture of the US is just too different. Everything's too loud, too big, too... Friendly. Give me little, quiet England any day.

A couple of years and I'll have a house of my own. Then a rifle, then a bigger rifle. I have a bow and a lot of knives... I'll be OK. Pistols, for me, are a luxury, not a necessity.

But thanks for the concern.
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Post by Mark Pearson » Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:38 pm

MarkTBSc wrote:
GoSlash27 wrote:
Flee your country, you are never going to have any fun there!
Way off topic, but +1!

Come to America, but make it quick 'cuz sooner or later they'll decide that nothing this fun should be legal and we'll all be screwed! :lol:
America's a nice place. I really like the people, the scenery, a lot of the laws and a lot of the spirit of the place... But I couldn't live there. The whole culture of the US is just too different. Everything's too loud, too big, too... Friendly. Give me little, quiet England any day.

A couple of years and I'll have a house of my own. Then a rifle, then a bigger rifle. I have a bow and a lot of knives... I'll be OK. Pistols, for me, are a luxury, not a necessity.

But thanks for the concern.
Yeah, long arms are what I would turn to for real firepower anyway.
The only advantage of a pistol is the idea of having it with you almost anywhere you go. Take that away and they don't serve much of a practical purpose anymore.

I still want one though.

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Post by Hoppy » Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:42 pm

Everything's too loud, too big, too... Friendly.

im sorry.... did you just call americans .... FRIENDLY?!

man, im living in the wrong part of america. (well i already knew that. damn MA)
]but there are quiet parts of the US. where have you visited?

Then a rifle, then a bigger rifle.
arnt Semi Auto rifles very restricted in the UK? i mean, i love my bolt actions for range time and historical value but for "Social Work" you really benefit from a SA
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Post by MarkTBSc » Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:16 pm

Hoppy wrote:
Everything's too loud, too big, too... Friendly.

im sorry.... did you just call americans .... FRIENDLY?!

man, im living in the wrong part of america. (well i already knew that. damn MA)
]but there are quiet parts of the US. where have you visited?
Well, first there's all the Americans I know here in the UK. The research Unit I work for has about 10. All lovely people (And several of them are drop dead gorgeous!). As to places I've visited, there's Texas (San An.), Washington (Possibly the least friendly of them all), San Francisco (Lovely, if overly liberal), St. Louis (Yay! ZS!) and Vegas (mmmm Hooters!). All of my best friends are Americans and they're the salt of the Earth. Americans can be a touch *too* friendly though. Americans have Positive politeness in contrast with the UK's Negative politeness.
Hoppy wrote:
Then a rifle, then a bigger rifle.
arnt Semi Auto rifles very restricted in the UK? i mean, i love my bolt actions for range time and historical value but for "Social Work" you really benefit from a SA
Semi-Automatic rifles are almost totally forbidden in the UK. You're allowed .22 semi-autos (Which will be my starter rifle - I'm looking at the G22. The Ruger 10/22 is probably a better weapon but I like the looks of the Walther.) but anything bigger than that has to be a bolt-action. My 'Bigger' rifle? I'm drooling over the thought of either a Remington 700 variant or one of the Australian 7.62mm Enfield remakes.

I tell a lie. You *are* allowed pistols in the UK. Under *very* specific circumstances. You have to be a hunter, in which case you're allowed to take a Derringer with you when hunting for the humane dispatching of injured animals.

I'd love a Arctic Warfare but those damn things cost like £2000.

Fun fact. .50Cal rifles are restricted in California but semi-automatic pistols aren't. In the UK, a .50Cal rifle is counted the same as any other longarm.
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Post by ZombieTaskForce » Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:49 pm

If you like the hi tech look of the G22 you could try a SL8 which is a civilian G36. They made bolt action variants for the UK.
Sorry to be the buzzkill, but I thought it might be of some value to temper this outburst of optimistic enthusiasm with a little healthy cynicism.

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Post by MarkTBSc » Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:27 pm

ZombieTaskForce wrote:If you like the hi tech look of the G22 you could try a SL8 which is a civilian G36. They made bolt action variants for the UK.
Not the SL8, but certainly the R8. OMFG that gun's beautiful! Unfortunately I suspect it's also expensive.

I was thinking of starting out with the G22 because the .22 round is nice and easy for a beginner. Not to mention I've seen it show with subsonic ammo and a silencer and it's virtually silent. It would probably be my PAW weapon of choice.

The Enfield with its 7.62mm round would be my 'invading army' weapon. A nice man-stopper - not to mention its 400 yard effective range. The R8 would probably end up being purely a fun piece. If I can afford it then I may get one but I'm not holding my breath. Getting the house is going to cost enough.

But certainly thank you for the info. It's a beautiful rifle.
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Post by Georgian » Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:20 pm

I've never had a problem with recoil with my 1911A1 .45ACP. The recoil is not sharp, nor is it snappy....I also find it to be more of a push. Can't go wrong with the good ole .45.
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Post by Bear_B » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:29 am

From the UK? Oh well that explains it...

I have owned handguns in calibers including .22, .25, .32, .380, 9mm, 10mm, .40, .45, .38, .357Magnum, and .44Magnum...

I can tell you (the OP) that you are dead wrong... the 9mm does NOT recoil more than the .45, and this is of course speaking from nearly three decades of shooting experience... not from the numbers taken from the internet/side of the box/where ever you got them...

There is nothing wrong with EITHER the 9mm, or .45, so dear God lets NOT turn this into another 9mm vs. .45 thread...

:shock:
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Post by Simo Hayha » Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:47 am

Hoppy wrote:
Everything's too loud, too big, too... Friendly.

im sorry.... did you just call americans .... FRIENDLY?!

man, im living in the wrong part of america. (well i already knew that. damn MA)
]but there are quiet parts of the US. where have you visited?

Then a rifle, then a bigger rifle.
arnt Semi Auto rifles very restricted in the UK? i mean, i love my bolt actions for range time and historical value but for "Social Work" you really benefit from a SA
We Americans tend to treat our tourists better than our own citizens. Want proof? Just watch our own girls melt when they hear a guy with a British accent. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Post by Dave_M » Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:41 am

Simo Hayha wrote: Want proof? Just watch our own girls melt when they hear a guy with a British accent. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Not if it's cockney they won't :lol:
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Post by Ad'lan » Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:48 am

Trust me, even a Norfolk Accent gets them.
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Post by Obiwan » Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:02 am

Recoil tends to be a pretty subjective topic

As previously stated, the platform makes more difference than the caliber (in most cases)

And most every caliber has a range of loads from soft to stout

Proper stance/grip/trigger control will result in the best accuracy.....as well as giving you good control. I always laugh when I hear about how punishing a pistol is to shoot.....generally one that my daughters could shoot comfortably at age 12 :roll:
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Post by FelixArchon » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:35 pm

misanthropist wrote:my girlfriend and her sister shoot magnum revolvers and prefer the hot loads to the soft ones.
Lets see some photos for proof.






Especially if you're still dating that blond from the M1A pics a while back.

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Post by misanthropist » Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:16 pm

LOL!!! There are some on here already...I will find them.


Edit:

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Happy?
DocGKR wrote:.45 ACP is much easier to stop with armor than the smaller, faster 9 mm. On the other hand, the larger mass of .45 ACP allows it to do much better against windshields than 9 mm. What is optimal all depends on your likely engagement scenarios.

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Post by ClownRacer » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:12 am

Simo Hayha wrote: We Americans tend to treat our tourists better than our own citizens. Want proof? Just watch our own girls melt when they hear a guy with a British accent. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
great videos of a brits take on america

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOyDLUzAAOY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2syY12OPkwI

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Post by MS8725 » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:16 am

misanthropist wrote: Happy?
Yay! :D As to the OP, I agree with many of the other posts on this subject. One of the reasons my wife won't shoot my 1911 is the recoil. There is quite a difference between the 45 acp and smaller calibers. Many factors contribute to felt recoil. But as I wrote, others have covered this better than I could. Just my opinion.
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Post by One Of None » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:54 pm

misanthropist wrote:LOL!!! There are some on here already...I will find them.


Edit:

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Happy?
No. That's just a glock in my pocket..... :shock: :oops: :D
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Post by crypto » Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:40 pm

Hoppy wrote:math and numbers are nice and all. but you cant really say anything forsure untill you put some rounds down range.
This is precisely like saying "math and numbers are nice and all but you cant really say anything about rocket science for sure until you launch a rocket to the moon"

IE, completely wrong.
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Post by Cybrludite » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:41 pm

GoSlash27 wrote:
Which is easier to shoot long range with?
The differences between the major handgun calibers when fired from full size handguns are so minor in my experience I can't really tell 'em apart. .38 or .357 from the same revolver? 9mm vs 40 vs 45?
You guys really notice the difference?
WRT the .38/.357 in the same revolver, I notice the difference but that may be an ammo thing. Magtech target loads for .38 Special vs. Buffalo Bore's +P+ 158 grain Gold Dots in .357 Magnum (Moar muzzle energy than Remington's green box .44 Magnum round... :shock: ) might not be the most honest comparison. +P .38 vs normal .357 have similar felt recoils.
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Post by Absit » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:49 pm

KE aside, "recoil" is mostly subjective based on the person (bone and muscle structure and development), firearm (action system, fit, interface, compensation), and catridge (KE).

Numbers mean very little in the gun world because no two people are alike, this applies to the shooter and shootee.
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Post by misanthropist » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:50 pm

crypto wrote:
Hoppy wrote:math and numbers are nice and all. but you cant really say anything forsure untill you put some rounds down range.
This is precisely like saying "math and numbers are nice and all but you cant really say anything about rocket science for sure until you launch a rocket to the moon"

IE, completely wrong.
I think it's more like saying, "math and numbers are nice and all but you can't really say anything about rocket science for sure until you launch some rockets." Which is pretty much exactly how the early days of rocket science were...lots of numbers, lots of figuring, then some attempts, which often failed, and sent the scientists back to the drawing board...

In fact somewhere around I think I have the above as almost a direct quote from Werner von Braun!

It's not that you can't mathematically compute the amount of recoil a shooter would experience from a gun...just that the amount of math involved is enormous, and I'm not sure if we would have the equations for it, or if we would know what equations to use. What is the impact of grip angle? What formula would be used to incorporate that? What about the speed of the powder burn? What about the mass of the gun? What about the degree to which the barrel is offset from the point of impact? What about the strength of the shooter's grip? How will these all fit together?

I would guess that you could do a doctorate degree in mathematics studying this, and even then you might well be committing a big chunk of your life to figuring out how the math would work. So as far as normal people go, and possibly scientists as well, math and numbers are nice and all, but ultimately until you start getting some trigger time in you are unlikely to know much about recoil.
DocGKR wrote:.45 ACP is much easier to stop with armor than the smaller, faster 9 mm. On the other hand, the larger mass of .45 ACP allows it to do much better against windshields than 9 mm. What is optimal all depends on your likely engagement scenarios.

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Post by Georgian » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:54 pm

Who actually gives a flying rat's ass about numbers? Just shoot the damn thing....I mean you Brits need to forget about ever owning firearms.....just go get a baseball bat....or are those restricted over there too? :lol:
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Post by congochris » Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:31 pm

Cricket bat, man, cricket bat!


Owning nothing smaller than a .45 myself, I can say that all three have slightly different felt recoil. One's an all steel %" (1911) ones a polymer 4" barrel (USPc) and one a 4" all steel (asai onepro). Gun weight and barrel length do make some difference. Even shooting different loads (my own reloads) I can tell a slight difference between my 185 gr and my 200 gr loads, as they use different powders with different burn rates. The difference is truly marginal, though and I can really only tell when I load a mag with some of each. If I load a mag of one or the other and try to guess which was which, I'm lost. But being able to feel the transition in the same mag, yeah.

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