Firearms Chat 6: Year of the 10mm

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Re: Firearms Chat 6: Year of the 10mm

Post by NT2C » Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:12 pm

Took the LCP II out for its first firing... and left the ammo and my hearing protection sitting home on my desk. Took a side trip to Walmart and picked up some 95 gr Winchester white box and a small box of 99 gr Federal HST micro. The 6 rounds of Blazer aluminum case I had in the mag were the first through and functioned fine. I was just plinking at cans about 15-20 feet away and was consistently hitting low. It was hard to tell just how low but they were low. Same with the white box stuff, all of which fed fine. Then the HSTs and had a failure to eject on the next to last round. It extracted, just didn't go anywhere. Reloaded with white box stuff and again it had a failure to eject on the next to last round. I notice now that the magazine is fitting pretty sloppy, and I can push it up and down with my fingers as I'm shooting, leading me to think that might be a contributing factor. Three more mags went through with no issues, then again, failure to eject on the next to last round. Called it a day at that point and brought it home for a good cleaning and proper lubrication. In doing so I see the mag follower fits poorly in the mag, and can easily be tipped forward. I'll have to get some more range time in and see if the cleaning and lube helped. If not I'll need to reexamine my grip. Its a small pistol, and I have big hands, so even with the extension on the magazine I can only get three fingers on the gun and it has pretty good recoil, being as light it is. A poor grip can easily cause extraction/ejection problems so it's time to take a good look at mine when using this.
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Re: Firearms Chat 6: Year of the 10mm

Post by boskone » Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:34 pm

NT2C wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:12 pm
Took the LCP II out for its first firing... and left the ammo and my hearing protection sitting home on my desk.

<snip>

If not I'll need to reexamine my grip. Its a small pistol, and I have big hands, so even with the extension on the magazine I can only get three fingers on the gun and it has pretty good recoil, being as light it is. A poor grip can easily cause extraction/ejection problems so it's time to take a good look at mine when using this.
If you do find it's a size problem (I did, albeit with the OG LCP, which also had brutal recoil), try an LC9(s)/EC9s. I stepped up to the EC9s (loses no features I care about, keeps most of the ones I do, and cost like 2/3 as much...though I do think I want to paint the sights), and have been really pleased with it's carryability.

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Re: Firearms Chat 6: Year of the 10mm

Post by NT2C » Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:42 pm

boskone wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:34 pm
NT2C wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:12 pm
Took the LCP II out for its first firing... and left the ammo and my hearing protection sitting home on my desk.

<snip>

If not I'll need to reexamine my grip. Its a small pistol, and I have big hands, so even with the extension on the magazine I can only get three fingers on the gun and it has pretty good recoil, being as light it is. A poor grip can easily cause extraction/ejection problems so it's time to take a good look at mine when using this.
If you do find it's a size problem (I did, albeit with the OG LCP, which also had brutal recoil), try an LC9(s)/EC9s. I stepped up to the EC9s (loses no features I care about, keeps most of the ones I do, and cost like 2/3 as much...though I do think I want to paint the sights), and have been really pleased with it's carryability.
If I do find it's a size issue then a Hogue grip will be added and tested. I have them on both my .45 and my 9mm and really like the way they fit my hand.
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Re: Firearms Chat 6: Year of the 10mm

Post by 91Eunozs » Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:35 pm

raptor wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:40 am
91Eunozs wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:32 pm
Zed Hunter wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:02 pm
I obtained a lone wolf 10mm barrel and mags for my G21. Now I need a 22 lb recoil spring.
I just took a similar tack...I’m sorely tempted by the 10mm siren song, but just ordered a 24# recoil spring/tungsten guide rod for my G21 from the Glockmeister (22# version fron the Glockstore probably would work as well) along with some .450SMC ammo in a variety of flavors from Double Tap.
Please educate me on this subject. I was under the impression that a Glock 20 in 10mm could be easily and safely converted to .45acp but I did not know the Glock 21 could safely be converted to 10mm.
Just to be clear...I’m “converting” mine to shoot .450SMC/.45 Super ammo. Thicker brass, more power, but dimensionally identical to .45 ACP. Only swapping out the guide rod and a stiffer recoil spring. May need stronger mag springs but have read reports of many folks using factory mags with no issue.

I know there are conversion barrels and slides, and vaguely recall reading somewhere that G20/21 mags can be used interchangeably (though not recommended). The G20 and 21 frames are very similar...don’t believe they’re identical though. Zed: care to weigh in on details for your conversion?

Edit: some info links:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/1 ... -glock-21/

https://glock.pro/glock-conversions/644 ... rsion.html

https://www.handgunforum.net/glock/2816 ... -20-a.html

https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/glock ... e.1476478/
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Re: Firearms Chat 6: Year of the 10mm

Post by Langenator » Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:41 am

NT2C wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:12 pm
Took the LCP II out for its first firing... and left the ammo and my hearing protection sitting home on my desk. Took a side trip to Walmart and picked up some 95 gr Winchester white box and a small box of 99 gr Federal HST micro. The 6 rounds of Blazer aluminum case I had in the mag were the first through and functioned fine. I was just plinking at cans about 15-20 feet away and was consistently hitting low. It was hard to tell just how low but they were low. Same with the white box stuff, all of which fed fine. Then the HSTs and had a failure to eject on the next to last round. It extracted, just didn't go anywhere. Reloaded with white box stuff and again it had a failure to eject on the next to last round. I notice now that the magazine is fitting pretty sloppy, and I can push it up and down with my fingers as I'm shooting, leading me to think that might be a contributing factor. Three more mags went through with no issues, then again, failure to eject on the next to last round. Called it a day at that point and brought it home for a good cleaning and proper lubrication. In doing so I see the mag follower fits poorly in the mag, and can easily be tipped forward. I'll have to get some more range time in and see if the cleaning and lube helped. If not I'll need to reexamine my grip. Its a small pistol, and I have big hands, so even with the extension on the magazine I can only get three fingers on the gun and it has pretty good recoil, being as light it is. A poor grip can easily cause extraction/ejection problems so it's time to take a good look at mine when using this.
Just out of curiousity, how many rounds total did you run through it? I ask because when I bought my wife an LCP, when we took it to the range, the two of us made it through I think 5 mags total (1 of JHPs, 4 of FMJ) because it was just so unpleasant to shoot.
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Re: Firearms Chat 6: Year of the 10mm

Post by TheContractor » Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:20 am

Stopped in at Walmart last night, first time in that massive center of capitalism in nearly 4 years. No guns on clearance sans one bolt action rifle. :cry: I asked the guy at the counter and he just looked confused, as I expected him too, and said "I don't know we would drop prices, we sell a lot of guns". So either it hasn't hit here yet or we are still profitable so they haven't added us to the potential no future gun sales list.

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Re: Firearms Chat 6: Year of the 10mm

Post by TheContractor » Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:33 am

Langenator wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:41 am


Just out of curiousity, how many rounds total did you run through it? I ask because when I bought my wife an LCP, when we took it to the range, the two of us made it through I think 5 mags total (1 of JHPs, 4 of FMJ) because it was just so unpleasant to shoot.
I have been carrying an LCP since the year they were introduced (2009 IIRC). I retired my first one and upgraded to an LCP Custom two year ago. I qualify on it as my back up gun 2x a year and shoot at least 5 mags through it every time I practice with my sidearm, which is approx. twice a month. What has made the gun pleasant for to shoot, for me, is using the +1 extended mags and the Hogue grip that uses the rear frame pin to hold it in place. They make a similar grip for the LCPII that uses only friction fit. Both add-ons give me something to hold onto and also absorbs much of the recoil.

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Re: Firearms Chat 6: Year of the 10mm

Post by NT2C » Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:23 am

Langenator wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:41 am
NT2C wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:12 pm
Took the LCP II out for its first firing... and left the ammo and my hearing protection sitting home on my desk. Took a side trip to Walmart and picked up some 95 gr Winchester white box and a small box of 99 gr Federal HST micro. The 6 rounds of Blazer aluminum case I had in the mag were the first through and functioned fine. I was just plinking at cans about 15-20 feet away and was consistently hitting low. It was hard to tell just how low but they were low. Same with the white box stuff, all of which fed fine. Then the HSTs and had a failure to eject on the next to last round. It extracted, just didn't go anywhere. Reloaded with white box stuff and again it had a failure to eject on the next to last round. I notice now that the magazine is fitting pretty sloppy, and I can push it up and down with my fingers as I'm shooting, leading me to think that might be a contributing factor. Three more mags went through with no issues, then again, failure to eject on the next to last round. Called it a day at that point and brought it home for a good cleaning and proper lubrication. In doing so I see the mag follower fits poorly in the mag, and can easily be tipped forward. I'll have to get some more range time in and see if the cleaning and lube helped. If not I'll need to reexamine my grip. Its a small pistol, and I have big hands, so even with the extension on the magazine I can only get three fingers on the gun and it has pretty good recoil, being as light it is. A poor grip can easily cause extraction/ejection problems so it's time to take a good look at mine when using this.
Just out of curiousity, how many rounds total did you run through it? I ask because when I bought my wife an LCP, when we took it to the range, the two of us made it through I think 5 mags total (1 of JHPs, 4 of FMJ) because it was just so unpleasant to shoot.
Right now? About 40 rounds. The heat and humidity were pretty brutal here yesterday (111 heat index) so I didn't want to set up the target stand and do any serious shooting. It does have some kick to it but nothing really punishing. Then again, with my arthritis and nerve damage I've become somewhat accustomed to pain all the time so I may not have particularly noticed. It does have some kick to it. I'd put it somewhere a little under what my .45 Shield does, so not at all unmanageable, but I really don't have much range time with it.

On the case extraction and ejection issue, I manually racked a few mags through it last night and twice I had rounds literally get jammed held against the bolt face. They were held so tight that even after locking the slide open and dropping the mag I struggled to get them out. What appears to be happening is the round (or empty case) is grabbed by the extractor and pulled from the chamber, and then somehow the ejector passes under the edge of the round instead of impacting it and pushing it out. I'm going to try putting about a hundred or so more rounds through it and see if that corrects itself with some breaking in. If not then this will be going back to Ruger for repair.
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Re: Firearms Chat 6: Year of the 10mm

Post by raptor » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:27 am

TheContractor wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:20 am
Stopped in at Walmart last night, first time in that massive center of capitalism in nearly 4 years. No guns on clearance sans one bolt action rifle. :cry: I asked the guy at the counter and he just looked confused, as I expected him too, and said "I don't know we would drop prices, we sell a lot of guns". So either it hasn't hit here yet or we are still profitable so they haven't added us to the potential no future gun sales list.

Walmart typically puts slow moving inventory on sale on a local store basis. Each one is a microcosm of the local market and managers have discretion to move prices up or down based upon demand. A product has to generate a $margin based upon the cubic feet it occupies in each store. If firearms and ammo sell well at a specific store I doubt they will lower the sales prices to liquidation value.

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Re: Firearms Chat 6: Year of the 10mm

Post by NT2C » Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:28 pm

raptor wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:27 am
TheContractor wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:20 am
Stopped in at Walmart last night, first time in that massive center of capitalism in nearly 4 years. No guns on clearance sans one bolt action rifle. :cry: I asked the guy at the counter and he just looked confused, as I expected him too, and said "I don't know we would drop prices, we sell a lot of guns". So either it hasn't hit here yet or we are still profitable so they haven't added us to the potential no future gun sales list.

Walmart typically puts slow moving inventory on sale on a local store basis. Each one is a microcosm of the local market and managers have discretion to move prices up or down based upon demand. A product has to generate a $margin based upon the cubic feet it occupies in each store. If firearms and ammo sell well at a specific store I doubt they will lower the sales prices to liquidation value.
So what you're saying then is that we have to get people to stop buying guns and ammo at our local Walmarts so we can reap those sweet, sweet liquidation prices? :crazy:
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Re: Firearms Chat 6: Year of the 10mm

Post by raptor » Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:42 pm

I think it would be easier to find out where these sales are occurring and go there. But that is just my opinion. YMMV.

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Re: Firearms Chat 6: Year of the 10mm

Post by Zxc » Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:41 pm

Does anyone have any hands one experience with the Law Tactical folding stock adapter? Looking for a folding stock option on a project..

https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/s ... 71553.aspx

Or are there better folding stock options out there?

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Re: Firearms Chat 6: Year of the 10mm

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:55 pm

raptor wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:42 pm
I think it would be easier to find out where these sales are occurring and go there. But that is just my opinion. YMMV.
That makes sense, Raptor.

Even if the Walmarts near my place don't have the major sale on guns, it's fine with me.

I can just use the funds to buy parts for the guns I already own. CDNN has some AR stuff that's catching my eye, so I may go with that instead of adding another 10/22 to my collection.

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Re: Firearms Chat 6: Year of the 10mm

Post by RickOShea » Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:56 pm

Taurus Breaks Ground On New Bainbridge, Georgia Manufacturing Plant and HQ

"The sleepy farming community Bainbridge, Georgia, about 40 miles north of Tallahassee, will soon be the new home of Taurus USA. Long located in an industrial district of South Florida’s Miami Gardens area, Taurus has decided to move to greener pastures due to the need for expansion space and the ever-increasing cost of doing business in the Sunshine State.

Back in April, Taurus and Georgia’s Gov. Nathan Deal struck a deal for Taurus to invest $22.5 million in infrastructure and operations to establish a firearms manufacturing plant and new headquarters, creating 300 jobs in the South Georgia area. While construction had already begun the official groundbreaking ceremony took place yesterday."
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Re: Firearms Chat 6: Year of the 10mm

Post by 91Eunozs » Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:01 pm

TheContractor wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:20 am
Stopped in at Walmart last night, first time in that massive center of capitalism in nearly 4 years. No guns on clearance sans one bolt action rifle. :cry: I asked the guy at the counter and he just looked confused, as I expected him too, and said "I don't know we would drop prices, we sell a lot of guns". So either it hasn't hit here yet or we are still profitable so they haven't added us to the potential no future gun sales list.
Similar here... the bolt guns were on sale (in stock only and all gone), but the 10/22 take downs were $348. I was really hoping to pick up every single one they had for $124 each! :awesome:
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Re: Firearms Chat 6: Year of the 10mm

Post by JeeperCreeper » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:16 pm

91Eunozs wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:35 pm
raptor wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:40 am
91Eunozs wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:32 pm
Zed Hunter wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:02 pm
I obtained a lone wolf 10mm barrel and mags for my G21. Now I need a 22 lb recoil spring.
I just took a similar tack...I’m sorely tempted by the 10mm siren song, but just ordered a 24# recoil spring/tungsten guide rod for my G21 from the Glockmeister (22# version fron the Glockstore probably would work as well) along with some .450SMC ammo in a variety of flavors from Double Tap.
Please educate me on this subject. I was under the impression that a Glock 20 in 10mm could be easily and safely converted to .45acp but I did not know the Glock 21 could safely be converted to 10mm.
Just to be clear...I’m “converting” mine to shoot .450SMC/.45 Super ammo. Thicker brass, more power, but dimensionally identical to .45 ACP. Only swapping out the guide rod and a stiffer recoil spring. May need stronger mag springs but have read reports of many folks using factory mags with no issue.

I know there are conversion barrels and slides, and vaguely recall reading somewhere that G20/21 mags can be used interchangeably (though not recommended). The G20 and 21 frames are very similar...don’t believe they’re identical though. Zed: care to weigh in on details for your conversion?

Edit: some info links:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/1 ... -glock-21/

https://glock.pro/glock-conversions/644 ... rsion.html

https://www.handgunforum.net/glock/2816 ... -20-a.html

https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/glock ... e.1476478/
I'm gonna try to throw some out of a stock XD45... see what happens.

If I like it, I might get a ported barrel.
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Re: Firearms Chat 6: Year of the 10mm

Post by NT2C » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:57 pm

JeeperCreeper wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:16 pm
I'm gonna try to throw some out of a stock XD45... see what happens.

If I like it, I might get a ported barrel.
I'm thinking I probably wouldn't do that with a polymer framed pistol, but that's just me.
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Re: Firearms Chat 6: Year of the 10mm

Post by RickOShea » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:11 pm

JeeperCreeper wrote:
RickOShea wrote:
woodsghost wrote:
RickOShea wrote: LOP is going to be fairly similar...

Image

Damn those are good looking guns. Than you for the pics and information!

I love me some East German goodness and the vintage USAF M16 furniture is amazing.
Don't let that picture fool you. Even though a 5 foot tall, malnourished peasant can easily wield an AK....the AR is too long, unless you're a 7 foot tall orangutan.

According to K-Var, an AK with a Warsaw Pact length buttstock has an LOP of 12.625". An AR with A1 stock has an LOP of 12.875".....quarter of an inch difference.

I think positioning/ergonomics will be a big deal. I like to keep my AK low in my shoulder for good sight alignment. AR's traditionally were taught to run them high in the shoulder... as someone mentioned "Camp Perry style" (I am responding to this to add in my 2 cents, not to correct or directly reply to Rick or Woods as they know more than me).

I'll have to get out my AR and AK and compare. LOP might not be everything... we might have to measure the comb and cheek placement to sights.
What are your conclusions?
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Re: Firearms Chat 6: Year of the 10mm

Post by JeeperCreeper » Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:05 pm

NT2C wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:57 pm
JeeperCreeper wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:16 pm
I'm gonna try to throw some out of a stock XD45... see what happens.

If I like it, I might get a ported barrel.
I'm thinking I probably wouldn't do that with a polymer framed pistol, but that's just me.
I would generally agree, but after some research, XD series should be able to handle it. I wanna say they have a fully supported chamber (I gotta check). Plus, the pressures are high compared to .45acp, but not in the grand scheme of autoloader rounds.

Plus, the 4" versions do not have the ability to swap springs sadly...
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Re: Firearms Chat 6: Year of the 10mm

Post by JeeperCreeper » Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:06 pm

RickOShea wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:11 pm
JeeperCreeper wrote:
RickOShea wrote:
woodsghost wrote:
Damn those are good looking guns. Than you for the pics and information!

I love me some East German goodness and the vintage USAF M16 furniture is amazing.
Don't let that picture fool you. Even though a 5 foot tall, malnourished peasant can easily wield an AK....the AR is too long, unless you're a 7 foot tall orangutan.

According to K-Var, an AK with a Warsaw Pact length buttstock has an LOP of 12.625". An AR with A1 stock has an LOP of 12.875".....quarter of an inch difference.

I think positioning/ergonomics will be a big deal. I like to keep my AK low in my shoulder for good sight alignment. AR's traditionally were taught to run them high in the shoulder... as someone mentioned "Camp Perry style" (I am responding to this to add in my 2 cents, not to correct or directly reply to Rick or Woods as they know more than me).

I'll have to get out my AR and AK and compare. LOP might not be everything... we might have to measure the comb and cheek placement to sights.
What are your conclusions?
I forgot to play around with it... hopefully I'll remember tomorrow...
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Her secondary offense will be nagging.

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Re: Firearms Chat 6: Year of the 10mm

Post by RickOShea » Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:38 pm

JeeperCreeper wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:06 pm
RickOShea wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:11 pm
JeeperCreeper wrote: I think positioning/ergonomics will be a big deal. I like to keep my AK low in my shoulder for good sight alignment. AR's traditionally were taught to run them high in the shoulder... as someone mentioned "Camp Perry style" (I am responding to this to add in my 2 cents, not to correct or directly reply to Rick or Woods as they know more than me).

I'll have to get out my AR and AK and compare. LOP might not be everything... we might have to measure the comb and cheek placement to sights.
What are your conclusions?
I forgot to play around with it... hopefully I'll remember tomorrow...
The height of the sights above the comb also appear to be fairly similar...


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Re: Firearms Chat 6: Year of the 10mm

Post by NT2C » Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:31 am

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Re: Firearms Chat 6: Year of the 10mm

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:44 pm

Anyone got a source for or know what size I'd need for flip up covers for a TRS-25 ?

I put mine on my AR on Monday and I really dislike the rubber cover that came with it. It works to keep dust and junk off the lenses, but it's a pain to remove it whenever I want to use the optic.

So I'd like to get some sort of plastic flip up covers like the Trijicon and other red dots have, but I've had no luck finding any at my usual sources.

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Re: Firearms Chat 6: Year of the 10mm

Post by RickOShea » Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:23 pm

When I Googled it, there were several threads from various sites about modding certain flip covers to work on the TRS-25.
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