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 Post subject: Which Caliber and Why?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:12 pm 
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So I was originally going to make a poll, but then decided against it and thought I would post this quandary.

So my question is, if you were in some sort of SHTF situation and you were at a trading post (think bulletfarm from madmax). You traded good/services for ammo, you get ANY ammunition you want from .22 short to .50BMG. However the only limitation is, you can only take 1 handful. I don't care if you reach in and grab or if you carefully line them up in a hand to try to maximize space. What would you choose? Why would you choose that? Bonus points to anyone if you post a pic with how much you can hold of the caliber of your choosing.

What say you?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:21 pm 
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Halfapint wrote:
So I was originally going to make a poll, but then decided against it and thought I would post this quandary.

So my question is, if you were in some sort of SHTF situation and you were at a trading post (think bulletfarm from madmax). You traded good/services for ammo, you get ANY ammunition you want from .22 short to .50BMG. However the only limitation is, you can only take 1 handful. I don't care if you reach in and grab or if you carefully line them up in a hand to try to maximize space. What would you choose? Why would you choose that? Bonus points to anyone if you post a pic with how much you can hold of the caliber of your choosing.

What say you?


Given those parameters- I'm going with .22 short. Far from the most useful round ever, but in such a world where ammo is a commodity I'm thinking I want the most for my time/service/stuff etc.

Oh, and I'm taking Chimpy and using his hands to grab our pay.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:39 pm 
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Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:

Given those parameters- I'm going with .22 short. Far from the most useful round ever, but in such a world where ammo is a commodity I'm thinking I want the most for my time/service/stuff etc.

Oh, and I'm taking Chimpy and using his hands to grab our pay.


Great answer! I was going to say that (w/o the chimpy part, that did not occur to me:lol:) but you beat me to it.

Since you said it first I am going to go with 9x19 for similar reasons. The key here to maximize your return is get a short smaller caliber round that is also reasonable in demand and effective. I though .25acp or .32acp would be a decent choice but the decided 9x19 was a better compromise to quantity, effectiveness and desirability.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:43 pm 
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raptor wrote:
Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:

Given those parameters- I'm going with .22 short. Far from the most useful round ever, but in such a world where ammo is a commodity I'm thinking I want the most for my time/service/stuff etc.

Oh, and I'm taking Chimpy and using his hands to grab our pay.


Great answer! I was going to say that (w/o the chimpy part, that did not occur to me:lol:) but you beat me to it.

Since you said it first I am going to go with 9x19 for similar reasons. The key here to maximize your return is get a short smaller caliber round that is also reasonable in demand and effective. I though .25acp or .32acp would be a decent choice but the decided 9x19 was a better compromise to quantity, effectiveness and desirability.


First I thought 9 NATO, that what my EDC takes, but I wouldn't get as much as a smaller round. Then I almost said .380 Auto (that's what my wife carries) for those reasons. Then I thought, 'wait! I have a .22S revolver in the safe!'

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:27 pm 
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I was thinking .357 wad cutters. And wearing mittens. I have long hands, and with mittens I can hold a LOT.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:24 pm 
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17 Hornady Mach 2-
Positives-a necked down 22 LR case, uses CCI Primers, uses same brass as CCI Stinger 22lr but smaller bullet moving quite a lot faster than a standard 22LR and faster than high velocity 22LR and at a flatter trajectory. From a 24 inch barrel muzzle velocity is 2100 fps and 166 foot pounds of energy. At a hundred yards velocity is 1530 fps and 88 foot pounds of energy.

Negatives- Past 150 yards they really loose steam. These don't work very well in semi auto's so to be reliable it's gonna mean a bolt action or with even less power you can get a revolver.

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Left 17HM2 and Right 22LR

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:48 pm 
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Thanks for the replies, just a fun little question to see what everyone thinks.

I was thinking .380. I can get a LOT of .380 in a single hand, hell I even kinda like the round. But other than CCW guns 380 doesn't have a heck of a lot of options. So I tried .223, I could actually hold MORE 223 than 380 because I just stacked them very carefully so I could hold about 20 just between my thumb and index finger. If I remember correctly I held about 50 or so in my hand without really trying.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:25 pm 
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I'm thinking, longer bullets may be easier to grab ahold of (pound for pound). I may have to experiment. But I think I might be able to get like 20 rounds of .30-06 as opposed to 30 rounds of 9mm. I'll take the 20 .30-06.

I'll have to experiment in the morning if I remember.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:40 am 
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I was going to say 9mm but I'm thinking 5.7x28mm as a compromise.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:48 am 
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.22LR. CCI Mini-Mag's

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:51 pm 
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Well let's see, I don't own anything but an AK and 1911 and a black powder revolver. I had other guns previously, but sold them off.

So I would be grabbing either 7.62×39 or 45acp. Why? Because 9mm or .22 ain't gonna fit in my guns, so rather pointless to grab a handful of ammo that doesn't work for my guns. I don't need to grab anything for my BP revolver, I can make the ammo for it myself.

Out of the options of 7.62×39 or 45acp, most of which I choose would have to do with which I am lowest on as well as what my experience in PAW has taught me is most useful. Not in SHTF currently and not knowing what I might learn during that I would be leaning toward the 7.62×39 since I am a pretty big believer in range and being able to hit things from a distance rather than wait for them to get close. Plus I still have my BP revolver and that can serve just fine for closer range.

So guess my answer without other input is 7.62×39.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:05 am 
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I'd go 223. It's a good compromise on all fronts. Size per grab and power. I'm familiar with 223 and know it well. No unknowns.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:51 pm 
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So I experimented. I tried .380 ACP and Jap 7.7 ammo (what was nearby at the time). I have L/XL sized hands

I can grab a full box of 50 of the .380 with some concentration.

I can easily grab a full box of 20 of the 7.7. Probably could do 25-30.

So basically, I'm guessing most people can do about half the amount of rounds of full size rifle vs small pistol. I'm still gonna take 25 rifle over 50 pistol, depending on situation.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:11 pm 
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Hiroshima_Morphine wrote:
Halfapint wrote:
So I was originally going to make a poll, but then decided against it and thought I would post this quandary.

So my question is, if you were in some sort of SHTF situation and you were at a trading post (think bulletfarm from madmax). You traded good/services for ammo, you get ANY ammunition you want from .22 short to .50BMG. However the only limitation is, you can only take 1 handful. I don't care if you reach in and grab or if you carefully line them up in a hand to try to maximize space. What would you choose? Why would you choose that? Bonus points to anyone if you post a pic with how much you can hold of the caliber of your choosing.

What say you?


Given those parameters- I'm going with .22 short. Far from the most useful round ever, but in such a world where ammo is a commodity I'm thinking I want the most for my time/service/stuff etc.

Oh, and I'm taking Chimpy and using his hands to grab our pay.


Prior to this past weekend I may have answered differently, but I think this is the winning answer.

Our CCW instructor at my renewal manadatory 4 hour class pointed out that basically all pistol ammo requires multiple shots to "stop" an attacker. The one that had the highest one-shot-stop ammo usable in a pistol - .22 lr. Now, I didn't want to interrupt the class by blurting out that probably most of those were head-shots and those are disproportionately high in single-shot stops... the fact remains.

I have a .22 adapter for one of my handguns and a .22 adapter for my AR-15, so I could get by with the .22 lr or at least manage a while on it, before I find a source for 9mm and .223. Based on the parameters of the question, I believe this would be my choice.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:00 am 
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Neville wrote:

Prior to this past weekend I may have answered differently, but I think this is the winning answer.

Our CCW instructor at my renewal manadatory 4 hour class pointed out that basically all pistol ammo requires multiple shots to "stop" an attacker. The one that had the highest one-shot-stop ammo usable in a pistol - .22 lr. Now, I didn't want to interrupt the class by blurting out that probably most of those were head-shots and those are disproportionately high in single-shot stops... the fact remains.

I have a .22 adapter for one of my handguns and a .22 adapter for my AR-15, so I could get by with the .22 lr or at least manage a while on it, before I find a source for 9mm and .223. Based on the parameters of the question, I believe this would be my choice.


That kind of information is a result of statistical nonsense and misinterpretation of data. I'd suggest looking at this page. The guy actually goes into some reasonable discussion on how he got some surprising results.

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternat ... ping-power

It would not surprise me if people shooting .22s tended to shoot one round and then hope the bad guy would run away. I'll bet most of those bad guys did run away. That would skew the statistics into thinking that somehow .22s "stopped" more attackers with 1 round. The people who carry .38s, 9's, 45's, and other more defensive calibers are 1) more likely to be training to shoot multiple times and 2) be trained to shoot really fast. This would up the number of rounds fired in an encounter and skew the statistical results into thinking 9mm or 45 are highly ineffective rounds. Further, the fact that a 9mm pistol often holds 15 rounds while a .38 revolver often holds 5 or 6 rounds will mean defenders will only shoot, at maximum, 5 or 6 rounds of .38 while they might shoot as much as 15 rounds of 9mm in an encounter. This will further skew the results as the upper boundary is much higher for 9mm than for .38, causing the average to move higher for 9mm and causing us to possibly conclude .38 is far more effective a stopping bad guys because on average, fewer rounds of .38 are shot before the end of the encounter.

Remember: there are lies, there are damn lies, and then there are statistics.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:35 pm 
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I'd have to go with 9mm based on my current setup. If I had a 357 carbine and revolver, I'd go with the 357mag.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:48 pm 
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I'm having trouble posting my photo. but I just snapped one with a handful of .38 spl hollow point. I stopped at 100 because I did not want to have to get and empty another box. I bet I could get even more with .357.

He said we could stack them... the rim makes them easier to hold I had at least 20 held between my fingers with the tips sticking down. It was easy to stack them with the lead end pointed into the palm and down, then the rest of the case made a little wall the let me hold more.

So who can get more that 100 in their handful?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:57 am 
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2now wrote:
I'm having trouble posting my photo. but I just snapped one with a handful of .38 spl hollow point. I stopped at 100 because I did not want to have to get and empty another box. I bet I could get even more with .357.

He said we could stack them... the rim makes them easier to hold I had at least 20 held between my fingers with the tips sticking down. It was easy to stack them with the lead end pointed into the palm and down, then the rest of the case made a little wall the let me hold more.

So who can get more that 100 in their handful?



This is EXACTLY what I was talking about. As long as you can hold them it counts. I just did a big grab, I have a can of 9mm I reached in and without stacking or doing any funny business I held 58 9mm. Maybe tomorrow I'll try the between fingers trick then stack and see.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:07 pm 
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I'd definitely go for the .308. My favorite round at the moment after doing some comparisons.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 5:51 pm 
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.22 WMR, because my PMR-30 can be used both for defense and for small game. I'm pretty sure I can hold well over 150 in one hand if they're carefully stacked.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:20 am 
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.50 BMG, done right (held in fingers not palm) I could hold at least a dozen. I don't have a picture of this but I have done it.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:37 am 
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Stercutus wrote:
.50 BMG, done right (held in fingers not palm) I could hold at least a dozen. I don't have a picture of this but I have done it.

All well and good I suppose, depending on what exactly your need for the ammo is. If it's primarily to put food on the table and sometimes defense, .50 BMG is only going to be useful for the defense part (unless you're living somewhere that has them and you have a taste for elephant meat). If your need is for standoff defense and sometimes taking down very large and dangerous game for food, .50 BMG is a pretty viable choice.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:40 am 
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First, what do I need?! If I have 500 rounds of .22LR and no .223, it would be easy for me.

Decision making...

1) What calibers am I carrying on me? picking 7.62x39 and not having something to shoot it is silly.
2) Am I out of ammo for any of them? Without ammo it is just a club/sap. Grab that ammo. If out of ammo for more than 1, go to step 4.
3) Am I less than 2 reloads for any of them? Grab that ammo. If less than 2 reloads for for more than 1, go to step 4.
4) What is my primary concern? Defense? Hunting (small or large game)? Choose caliber accordingly.

If all things were equal... I'd sink my big mitt into the following buckets in this order:
.22LR
9mm
.223

But I guess that was to be expected.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:49 pm 
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Holy crap! Zantra's back! :lol:

OT: probably a fist full of .223.

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... 22lr ... I use them in a Ciener .22lr conversion unit, on a shorty AR15 in 223. ... The[y] will drop a deer, man, hog, bear to 50m with that same sort of hit. :roll: ... You can get a quick takedown rifle that will hide in your pack in .22lr.

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