Attaching a Pistol to a Pistol

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Stercutus
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Attaching a Pistol to a Pistol

Post by Stercutus » Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:43 pm

If you attach a pistol to a pistol does it become an NFA item? I know attaching a pistol to a rifle should make it an NFA item.
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Re: Attaching a Pistol to a Pistol

Post by quazi » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:14 am

Not sure if the Arsenal AF2011-A1 is relevant to this conversation.
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Re: Attaching a Pistol to a Pistol

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:33 am

If you're not adding a stock, it would seem more in danger of becoming an AoW if the second pistol acts as a VFG.

Ask ATF?
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Re: Attaching a Pistol to a Pistol

Post by Neptune Glory » Sat Jul 11, 2015 6:34 am

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Re: Attaching a Pistol to a Pistol

Post by Stercutus » Sat Jul 11, 2015 7:46 am

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:If you're not adding a stock, it would seem more in danger of becoming an AoW if the second pistol acts as a VFG.

Ask ATF?
That is what I was thinking.

I saw this abortion at the gun shop:

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Gunshop guy said it slapping it on an AR pistol would not make it an AOW but I disagreed. It is an academic question only, there is no danger of me actually buying that POS.
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Re: Attaching a Pistol to a Pistol

Post by majorhavoc » Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:32 am

Stercutus wrote:
Gunshop guy said it slapping it on an AR pistol would not make it an AOW but I disagreed. It is an academic question only, there is no danger of me actually buying that POS.
Was Gunshop guy talking about something along these lines, but on an AR pistol?

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Re: Attaching a Pistol to a Pistol

Post by Stercutus » Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:24 pm

We agreed that putting it on a rifle would make it an NFA item. It would be an SBR. That got me to wondering about putting it on an AR pistol. Figured ZS was just the place for someone to have been dorky enough to have tried and yet found and followed the law precisely in that regard.

I did read some of the promotional material:

"There are a wide variety of missions upon which the employment of the Zip 22 can create success." I lol'ed. Couldn't think of any but it was funny.
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Re: Attaching a Pistol to a Pistol

Post by Assault Life » Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:29 pm

Went into a well established pawn shop not long ago, and they had one of those Zip guns attached to a cheap AR. Counter Guy and the owner refused to believe me that it was an unregistered SBR because you can buy the mount online....
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Re: Attaching a Pistol to a Pistol

Post by emclean » Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:39 am

mounting a pistol to a pistol would give you a forward vertical grip, thereby making it an AOW.
the "main" pistol would cease to be legally a pistol cause it would no longer be "A weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand"
per 27 CFR 479.11

something similar I can across on the web about adding a vertical grip to an AR pistol.
http://johnpierceesq.com/?p=602

I think you're making some assumptions on how the two pistols are attached. I can think of a couple ways that you could do it without making a forward grip.

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Re: Attaching a Pistol to a Pistol

Post by crypto » Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:24 am

It would only be a forward grip if you mounted another pistol to the rail of the first pistol.
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Re: Attaching a Pistol to a Pistol

Post by emclean » Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:23 am

crypto wrote:It would only be a forward grip if you mounted another pistol to the rail of the first pistol.
true, but still the second grip with a trigger would arguably make it no longer designed for use with a single hand, which is the definition of a pistol.

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Re: Attaching a Pistol to a Pistol

Post by AS556 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:35 am

Assault Life wrote:Went into a well established pawn shop not long ago, and they had one of those Zip guns attached to a cheap AR. Counter Guy and the owner refused to believe me that it was an unregistered SBR because you can buy the mount online....
I went to a local pawn shop, they already don't know a bolt carrier group from their own asshole, and saw an AR pistol with 7.5" bbl and a vert grip on it. I explained to the owner he had an unregistered AOW in his case, his response was he's "cool" with the ATF so it's no biggie really. I left and have never gone back. Apparently the owner was an Army sniper...riiiight...

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Re: Attaching a Pistol to a Pistol

Post by 0122358 » Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:57 pm

Assault Life wrote:Went into a well established pawn shop not long ago, and they had one of those Zip guns attached to a cheap AR. Counter Guy and the owner refused to believe me that it was an unregistered SBR because you can buy the mount online....
Call the ATF on them...but safeguard their dogs first
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Re: Attaching a Pistol to a Pistol

Post by URBAN ASSAULT » Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:45 am

0122358 wrote:
Assault Life wrote:Went into a well established pawn shop not long ago, and they had one of those Zip guns attached to a cheap AR. Counter Guy and the owner refused to believe me that it was an unregistered SBR because you can buy the mount online....
Call the ATF on them...but safeguard their dogs first
I would not do that, the BATFE doesn't need another cockamamie excuse to justify their budget.

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Re: Attaching a Pistol to a Pistol

Post by 0122358 » Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:34 pm

URBAN ASSAULT wrote:
0122358 wrote:
Assault Life wrote:Went into a well established pawn shop not long ago, and they had one of those Zip guns attached to a cheap AR. Counter Guy and the owner refused to believe me that it was an unregistered SBR because you can buy the mount online....
Call the ATF on them...but safeguard their dogs first
I would not do that, the BATFE doesn't need another cockamamie excuse to justify their budget.

-urban
I should have made that blue text
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Re: Attaching a Pistol to a Pistol

Post by gun toting monkeyboy » Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:39 pm

0122358 wrote:
URBAN ASSAULT wrote:
0122358 wrote:
Assault Life wrote:Went into a well established pawn shop not long ago, and they had one of those Zip guns attached to a cheap AR. Counter Guy and the owner refused to believe me that it was an unregistered SBR because you can buy the mount online....
Call the ATF on them...but safeguard their dogs first
I would not do that, the BATFE doesn't need another cockamamie excuse to justify their budget.

-urban
I should have made that blue text

You can add a "~" to the end of a sentence to denote sarcasm. And guys, adding a forward grip to a pistol is only a problem if the overall length of the pistol is under 26". If you have, say, an AR pistol, with a 10.5" barrel, that can easily be over 26" in length. At which point the ATF simply classifies it as an "other firearm", and you can do what you want with it. Although putting one of those zipgun monstrosities on the front would be questionable. Not so much from a legal standpoint as from a "WTF are you thinking?" standpoint.

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Re: Attaching a Pistol to a Pistol

Post by Stercutus » Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:43 pm

You can add a "~" to the end of a sentence to denote sarcasm. And guys, adding a forward grip to a pistol is only a problem if the overall length of the pistol is under 26". If you have, say, an AR pistol, with a 10.5" barrel, that can easily be over 26" in length. At which point the ATF simply classifies it as an "other firearm", and you can do what you want with it. Although putting one of those zipgun monstrosities on the front would be questionable. Not so much from a legal standpoint as from a "WTF are you thinking?" standpoint.
I see the effect on the AR what does it do to the .22 pistol that is attached? Does it become an SBR? You have now attached what is essentially a big ass stock to it.
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Re: Attaching a Pistol to a Pistol

Post by ultra magnus » Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:53 pm

Stercutus wrote:
You can add a "~" to the end of a sentence to denote sarcasm. And guys, adding a forward grip to a pistol is only a problem if the overall length of the pistol is under 26". If you have, say, an AR pistol, with a 10.5" barrel, that can easily be over 26" in length. At which point the ATF simply classifies it as an "other firearm", and you can do what you want with it. Although putting one of those zipgun monstrosities on the front would be questionable. Not so much from a legal standpoint as from a "WTF are you thinking?" standpoint.
I see the effect on the AR what does it do to the .22 pistol that is attached? Does it become an SBR? You have now attached what is essentially a big ass stock to it.
If the Ar PISTOL has no stock, how would the attached pistol have a stock? I imagine the zip would not count as a vfg, in the same way that mag wells do not. It is not designed as for grip, and the second gun could still be fired one handed. You may also be able to make the afg argument for it as well.

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Re: Attaching a Pistol to a Pistol

Post by Blacksheep » Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:34 pm

now, just for the sake of discussion..

adding a 22 zip to the bottom rail of a RIFLE ar15, = a SBR

what if the AR15 is registered as a SBR already?

wouldn't you have to register the zip, not the AR as a SBR?
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Re: Attaching a Pistol to a Pistol

Post by roscoe » Wed Dec 09, 2015 4:15 am

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