Firearms Chat 3: #pewpewlife

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Re: Firearms Chat 3: #pewpewlife

Post by RickOShea » Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:25 pm

Langenator wrote:The Marine Corps has authorized MARSOC operators to carry Glock pistols, since many of the elite outfit's members prefer the popular 9mm over the custom .45 pistols the service bought them in 2012.

http://m.military.com/daily-news/2015/0 ... oc-45.html

It was as if millions of keyboard commandos cried out alternately in terror and joy, and sprang to their keyboards to launch thousands of new flame wars. :awesome:
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Re: Firearms Chat 3: #pewpewlife

Post by Bearcat » Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:02 pm

One of the many reasons the Vz 58 is a shit design https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0bNuAS ... u.be&t=457
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Re: Firearms Chat 3: #pewpewlife

Post by Bearcat » Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:38 am

Eotech getting slammed with a federal lawsuit for concealing defects for a decade...Glad I'm an Aimpoint fanboy! http://soldiersystems.net/2015/11/25/th ... witterfeed
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Re: Firearms Chat 3: #pewpewlife

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:49 am

I will be happily take anyone's old garbage Eotechs off their hands. Don't throw them away folks, I'll give you a whole fifty dollars for them. I'm not operator enough to shoot in sub-freezing or 100+ temps enough to worry about the thermal drift.
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Re: Firearms Chat 3: #pewpewlife

Post by Boom40mm » Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:03 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:I will be happily take anyone's old garbage Eotechs off their hands. Don't throw them away folks, I'll give you a whole fifty dollars for them. I'm not operator enough to shoot in sub-freezing or 100+ temps enough to worry about the thermal drift.
Botach is offering $100 trade in towards a Trijicon MRO lol.

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Re: Firearms Chat 3: #pewpewlife

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:06 pm

I'll make it $125 then.
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Re: Firearms Chat 3: #pewpewlife

Post by Bearcat » Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:54 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:I will be happily take anyone's old garbage Eotechs off their hands. Don't throw them away folks, I'll give you a whole fifty dollars for them. I'm not operator enough to shoot in sub-freezing or 100+ temps enough to worry about the thermal drift.
I have a friend with an eotech that had the fogging issue who bought his new and maybe shoots once every 2 or 3 months. Also had a friend with the battery issues years ago. I'm not snubbing my nose at Eotech because I can't shoot it at -40, I'm just passing along the information that L-3 put soldiers lives in danger by hiding this.
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Re: Firearms Chat 3: #pewpewlife

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Thu Nov 26, 2015 4:30 pm

I've never been much of a fan of EOTech sights.

That's probably because I run an AK and you really can't get an EOTech set up right on one unless you really try. I'm sticking with the little Bushnell TRS-25 I have on there now.

I really wanted one of those Aimpoint micro sights, but I couldn't justify the 800 bucks for one. I didn't even pay that much for the gun it'd go on. To me, it'd be like buying a beat to hell Mosin for 100 bucks and then strapping a $1,000 Leupold scope on it.

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Re: Firearms Chat 3: #pewpewlife

Post by CK14 » Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:03 pm

I shared that EOTech article with my Sheriff and Undersheriff and we are going to be phasing out our EOTechs. I like them but I had issues with mine last winter. I live at 8600 ft and our county mostly goes uphill from there and it gets colder than a witches teat up here. At one point my EOTech was shooting left by a little over 3 in @ 25 yards. I chalked it up to being bounced around in my patrol car on crappy mountain roads but it might have been this. I re-zeroed and a month or so later it was off by about 1.5in. left @ 25 yards.

Kind of scary to think what night have happened if I had to use the rifle :shock: .
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Re: Firearms Chat 3: #pewpewlife

Post by TheLastOne » Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:38 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:I'll make it $125 then.

Me too. Mine has held zero for 4 years and been taken off the rifle several times. I've shot it at 10F and in the 90s. Gone from 7k above sea level to whatever Missouri is and held zero. Twice. Sorry some have had bad experiences.
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Re: Firearms Chat 3: #pewpewlife

Post by BullOnParade » Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:43 pm

Bearcat wrote:One of the many reasons the Vz 58 is a shit design https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0bNuAS ... u.be&t=457
Because it won't fire with an obstructed bolt?
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Re: Firearms Chat 3: #pewpewlife

Post by woodsghost » Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:58 pm

BullOnParade wrote:
Bearcat wrote:One of the many reasons the Vz 58 is a shit design https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0bNuAS ... u.be&t=457
Because it won't fire with an obstructed bolt?
I'd say "cuz snow can get in there" while the cover on the AK makes it more resistant to that. But nothing is "snow proof."

If anyone wants to sell me their VZ for $250 I"ll part with cash. I"ll risk my life with a clearly defective design.
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Re: Firearms Chat 3: #pewpewlife

Post by 12_Gauge_Chimp » Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:49 pm

BullOnParade wrote:
Bearcat wrote:One of the many reasons the Vz 58 is a shit design https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0bNuAS ... u.be&t=457
Because it won't fire with an obstructed bolt?
I kind of want to know the other reasons why the Vz 58 is supposedly a shit design.

Obviously the Czechs had no problem with the rifles for however long they fielded them. One video of one dude cramming snow into the receiver isn't enough evidence of it being a shot design. At least not to me anyway.

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Re: Firearms Chat 3: #pewpewlife

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:12 am

I can't think of very many other designs that will function if you cram a bunch of shit into the space the parts need to move in to.

But yeah, I'd love to hear all about it's a shit design from people who've had lots of trigger time behind the gun.
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Re: Firearms Chat 3: #pewpewlife

Post by Stercutus » Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:10 am

woodsghost wrote:
BullOnParade wrote:
Bearcat wrote:One of the many reasons the Vz 58 is a shit design https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0bNuAS ... u.be&t=457
Because it won't fire with an obstructed bolt?
I'd say "cuz snow can get in there" while the cover on the AK makes it more resistant to that. But nothing is "snow proof."

If anyone wants to sell me their VZ for $250 I"ll part with cash. I"ll risk my life with a clearly defective design.
For another $150 you might as well get a brand new one. It will be warranted to be just as jacked up.
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Re: Firearms Chat 3: #pewpewlife

Post by chills1994 » Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:00 am

So if I am reading this page correctly, then the ultimate anti-baller setup is an EoTech equipped VZ58 with snow packed in it.

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Re: Firearms Chat 3: #pewpewlife

Post by Langenator » Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:14 am

12_Gauge_Chimp wrote:
BullOnParade wrote:
Bearcat wrote:One of the many reasons the Vz 58 is a shit design https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0bNuAS ... u.be&t=457
Because it won't fire with an obstructed bolt?
I kind of want to know the other reasons why the Vz 58 is supposedly a shit design.

Obviously the Czechs had no problem with the rifles for however long they fielded them. One video of one dude cramming snow into the receiver isn't enough evidence of it being a shot design. At least not to me anyway.
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Re: Firearms Chat 3: #pewpewlife

Post by TheLastOne » Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:18 am

chills1994 wrote:So if I am reading this page correctly, then the ultimate anti-baller setup is an EoTech equipped VZ58 with snow packed in it.

:lol:
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Re: Firearms Chat 3: #pewpewlife

Post by Bearcat » Fri Nov 27, 2015 8:43 am

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:I can't think of very many other designs that will function if you cram a bunch of shit into the space the parts need to move in to.

But yeah, I'd love to hear all about it's a shit design from people who've had lots of trigger time behind the gun.
12_Gauge_Chimp wrote:
BullOnParade wrote:
Bearcat wrote:One of the many reasons the Vz 58 is a shit design https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0bNuAS ... u.be&t=457
Because it won't fire with an obstructed bolt?
I kind of want to know the other reasons why the Vz 58 is supposedly a shit design.

Obviously the Czechs had no problem with the rifles for however long they fielded them. One video of one dude cramming snow into the receiver isn't enough evidence of it being a shot design. At least not to me anyway.
It's an open action which low and behold, a lot of shit can easily get in there unlike AK or AR.

As a comparison to the vz video I posted. Here's one of an AK shoved full of twinkies. It didn't cycle a new round either, but at least it fired when he manually cycled it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIuni6_K_RQ

Example of disconnector/sear failures http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=26292.0
Example of broken bolt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWi2Yj7f4UY
Even though this guy got his problem(s) resolved by the company's CS, he still bought a new gun with rust/carbon fouling. viewtopic.php?f=16&t=75127

These aren't anecdotal occurences either. Google vz 58 problems and you'll find pages upon pages of people dealing with these issues.

I'm sure Doctorr Fabulous will point how cz usa has fixed all these QC issues, it's a new company(ish), they have since modified designs or w/e, blah blah blah :words: . To me that argument is no better than saying go buy a lorcin or jennings because glock bought them and changed a few things around. Can only polish a turd so much, especially with so many affected units on the market already. But hey, this is the internet and even though I've provided evidence, my opinion is completely unfounded right?
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Re: Firearms Chat 3: #pewpewlife

Post by FreeThought » Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:53 am

Bearcat wrote: It's an open action which low and behold, a lot of shit can easily get in there unlike AK or AR.

As a comparison to the vz video I posted. Here's one of an AK shoved full of twinkies. It didn't cycle a new round either, but at least it fired when he manually cycled it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIuni6_K_RQ

Example of disconnector/sear failures http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=26292.0
Example of broken bolt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWi2Yj7f4UY
Even though this guy got his problem(s) resolved by the company's CS, he still bought a new gun with rust/carbon fouling. viewtopic.php?f=16&t=75127

These aren't anecdotal occurences either. Google vz 58 problems and you'll find pages upon pages of people dealing with these issues.

I'm sure Doctorr Fabulous will point how cz usa has fixed all these QC issues, it's a new company(ish), they have since modified designs or w/e, blah blah blah :words: . To me that argument is no better than saying go buy a lorcin or jennings because glock bought them and changed a few things around. Can only polish a turd so much, especially with so many affected units on the market already. But hey, this is the internet and even though I've provided evidence, my opinion is completely unfounded right?



Open action firearms............ so all these are complete crap too? (see following list) Right? And as an aside one can Google ARs and find myriad and sundry problems with the platform too , or would you deny that? And nope I'm not anti-AR , far from it since of course I currently have in inventory 2 LMTs , a Noveske , a Colt 6700 HBAR , and Armalite AR10 and a LaRue PredatorOBR. That said the AR platform is not without it's travails , especially within the context of the lower end offerings. And those travails are far from "anecdotaL incidents" too.






Alpha GPI
APS underwater rifle
AA-12 Shotgun
Browning Automatic Rifle
Bren light machine gun
Carl Gustav M/45
CETME Ameli
Degtyaryov machine gun
F1 submachine gun
FN MAG and variants (including the M240)
FN Minimi and variants (including the M249)
Halcón M-1943
Intratec TEC-9
Jatimatic
Kk 62
Lanchester submachine gun
Lewis gun
M3
M60
MAC-10 and variants (including the MAC-11)
MAC-58
MAT 49
MG34
MG42
MP18
Minebea PM-9
MP40
Nikonov machine gun
Owen Gun
PK machine gun
PM-63 RAK
PPS submachine gun
PPSh-41
Rheinmetall MG3
RPD
SG-43
SIG MG710
Sten submachine gun
Sterling submachine gun
Steyr Aug (LMG configuration)
Stoner 63 (LMG configuration)
Thompson submachine gun
Type 100 submachine gun
Ultimax 100
Uzi
Vigneron submachine gun
MP3008

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Re: Firearms Chat 3: #pewpewlife

Post by Bearcat » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:06 am

I don't think a lot of those are open action...I fail to see how the Cetme or BAR are open action guns like the vz, garand, m14 on mini 14 are. You have the mac 10 and tech 9 on that list which are known to have quality/reliability issues. The RPD was removed from service in the russian military in favor of the RPK for reliability issues. Who the fuck knows about that underwater gun?

You aren't seeing my point. When you have a product that is mass produced like the AR is, there is bound to be QC issues. The other reason why the AR platform has myriad of problems is because you have dozens if not more manufacturers of varying degrees of quality. Even the good manufacturers have QC issues from time to time. We KNOW what makes a good AR. We KNOW now you should be running an H buffer, better springs, carbines take a carbine extractor O ring or a Defender D ring, gas keys should be staked, castle nuts should be staked etc etc. Buy an Olympic arms and its gonna suck. Its not because ARs suck. The examples I provided of the vz 58 are inherent design FLAWS. One sear doing the job of two, firing pins and bolts break very often, the newly made CSA guns were over gassed for a while and the 2013s especially prone to breaking. In addition, one of my best friends is a gunsmith and finds that the roll pins that hold the hand guards on tend to get loose and walk their way out.
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Re: Firearms Chat 3: #pewpewlife

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:33 pm

How much trigger time do -you- have on a VZ58?

TIL every open action is a totally shit design. Throw away your SKSs and AG42s guys, this guy said they were a shit design because you can't fire them with the action jammed full of twinkies.
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Re: Firearms Chat 3: #pewpewlife

Post by Bearcat » Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:23 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:How much trigger time do -you- have on a VZ58?

TIL every open action is a totally shit design. Throw away your SKSs and AG42s guys, this guy said they were a shit design because you can't fire them with the action jammed full of twinkies.
:roll: Every damn time you don't agree with something, you twist and lie about the other person's statements. I never said open actions are a totally shit design. They have an inherit design flaw in so much as an exposed bolt/action with the possibility of catching much more dirt/debris than say a covered action like an AR or AK does. I said the vz 58 platform is a shit design and listed specific reasons and examples of why. To which you haven't made an intelligent counter argument to as of yet.

I have about 100 rounds through a vz 58 shooting my friend, the gunsmith's. He has 1500 rounds through 3 of them that were fucked up and about 3500 rounds through SKS rifles that never malf'ed. Which do you think he still has? One was working because he epoxied a spring from the hardware store in it rather than weld on the bolt carrier, and it had a trigger pull about as bad as a stock Tavor. Real quality. A gun I own and have shot if you're going to ask about that one too. :roll:

On a side note, the AG-42 is an exceptionally accurate rifle. It's also exceptionally ammo sensitive and no one really knows how well it would do in combat because the only ones that ever saw battle were the Rachid and Hakim variants that the Egyptian Army never fired and dropped once. Swedes were advised to OIL THEIR FUCKING CARTRIDGES to make the AG-42B work. http://www.gotavapen.se/gota/artiklar/ag42/ag42eng.htm

You really need to shut the fuck up and stop twisting mine and everyone you don't agree with words'. A sign of someone with lack of an intelligent counter argument. I'm sick and tired of letting it go with you. I'll give you this, you single handedly drove most of the good people away in this subforum. Bravo, you're such an asshat that can't ever admit when you're wrong, you somehow avoided being banned from this forum by being a cry bitch and paid for a lifetime membership. In summation go fuck yourself. Now report me and get me suspended by a mod...you're good at that. :wink:
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Re: Firearms Chat 3: #pewpewlife

Post by omega_man » Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:17 pm

Well said, Bearcat. Well said, indeed :awesome:
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