Eight .22 revolvers + a drill = legal machine gun?

General discussions regarding topics that aren't covered in one of the other sub-forums. NO DISCUSSION OF POLITICS!

Moderators: ZS Global Moderators, ZS Postal Match Officers

Post Reply
JoergS
* * * * *
Posts: 1460
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:15 am

Eight .22 revolvers + a drill = legal machine gun?

Post by JoergS » Fri Dec 26, 2014 6:00 pm

I am thinking about my next US trip.

I have done several gatling type battery drill operated slingshot guns, all working really well.



Now I am thinking about using eight .22 lr revolvers spinning around one axis, driven by the ubiquitous drill, automatically firing at the topmost position.

The guns themselves would be unaltered, except they would be mounted into a wooden holder.

Pressing the trigger on the drill would turn the guns and set the firíng motion in action. A mechanism would pull the DA triggers automatically.

I plan to test this on toy revolvers firing caps, entirely legal here in Germany. But would it be legal to use real .22s in the US? I have no idea. What do you think?
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/JoergSprave" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My blog: http://www.slingshotchannel.blogspot.de/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My forum: http://www.theslingshotforum.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Doctorr Fabulous
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
Posts: 12210
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:06 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Evil Dead, Zombieland, 28 Days/Weeks Later

Re: Eight .22 revolvers + a drill = legal machine gun?

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Fri Dec 26, 2014 6:12 pm

I don't believe so, as pressing the drill trigger would count as one trigger pull, meaning you would have to make it so that no more than one round could be fired with a single pull of the drill trigger.
Opinions subject to change in light of new information.
Image
http://i.imgur.com/wG6ZMjE.jpg

User avatar
MacAttack
* * * * *
Posts: 2992
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:11 am

Re: Eight .22 revolvers + a drill = legal machine gun?

Post by MacAttack » Fri Dec 26, 2014 7:06 pm

It would be legal as long as it was not powered by the drill.


A hand cranked version is perfectly legal. Without any BATF forms.


Just like the old hand cranked Gatling guns are still legal but not the modern mini guns powered by an electric motor.


People have used 10/22's in several different variations all powered by hand cranks.

The crank motion counts as the trigger pull. Thus it can not be done by any type of powered motor.

JoergS
* * * * *
Posts: 1460
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:15 am

Re: Eight .22 revolvers + a drill = legal machine gun?

Post by JoergS » Sat Dec 27, 2014 2:00 am

Hand crank? Well, that would work. What is the cheapest .22 double action revolver available? I googled it but only found expensive models.
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/JoergSprave" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My blog: http://www.slingshotchannel.blogspot.de/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My forum: http://www.theslingshotforum.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Redeyes
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
Posts: 1460
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 1:04 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: Night of The Living Dead 1968
Location: Augusta Georgia

Re: Eight .22 revolvers + a drill = legal machine gun?

Post by Redeyes » Sat Dec 27, 2014 7:27 am

Probably Rohm .22lr. But they are total crap and overpriced and you would have to buy them on the secondary market. You could use Marlin 795's or Mossberg Plinksters. Those are rifles, but they generally work, are .22lr and you can get them for around $150 new. The cheapest pistols that will probably work would be High Points at $150 or so new. The High Points start at .380 ACP and go up, no .22lr. Most decent .22lr DA revolvers go for $450 and up.
Image

Team Beards&Irons MilCopp 2013

Browning 35 for ZS President 2016. Make Zombie Squad Great Again!

User avatar
emclean
* * * * *
Posts: 1621
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:31 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Fido
Zombieland
Location: NW Indiana

Re: Eight .22 revolvers + a drill = legal machine gun?

Post by emclean » Sat Dec 27, 2014 12:20 pm

as mentioned above, using the drill would be illegal. the ATF has declared a bit of twine with loops in each ends to be a machine gun (when attached to a semi-auto rifle)

charter arms revolvers are about the least expensive revolvers that i would use. but MSRP is $370 each.
the marlin semi auto rifles are around $180 each, the ruger 10/22 are around $200.

and i would love to see a design that would work for one of the rifles. just keep in mind that it would have to be over 26" over all to remain legal in the US.

JoergS
* * * * *
Posts: 1460
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:15 am

Re: Eight .22 revolvers + a drill = legal machine gun?

Post by JoergS » Sat Dec 27, 2014 12:48 pm

Eight rifles would probably be too heavy. But I may use small auto pistols in .22 or .25 ACP. I won't really make a new gun, just a holder for the unchanged original weapons. The guns won't be permanently fixed to the holder. It will simply be a wooden contraption that turns the eight handguns around a center axis, by means of a hand crank, and fires the topmost gun automatically. So as long as you keep turning the crank, the thing will fire.
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/JoergSprave" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My blog: http://www.slingshotchannel.blogspot.de/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My forum: http://www.theslingshotforum.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
Kommander
* * * * *
Posts: 4274
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:38 am
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Eight .22 revolvers + a drill = legal machine gun?

Post by Kommander » Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:45 pm

Emclean is right in that your going to have to watch out for the NFA on this one. When you attach things to a gun, permanent or not, the legally become part of that gun. For example if you put a shoulder stock on the thing it will be an NFA short barreled rifle because the barrels on the pistol will be under 16 inches in length. For those that know more than I would making the contraption over 26 inches and have it equipped with only a pistol grip would one be able to mount it on a bi or tripod. The 26 inches thing would keep it from technically being a handgun so that mounting a bi or tripod on it could not be construed as mounting a vertical for grip which is illegal on a pistol.
Why must all the hoops be on fire?

User avatar
DarkAxel
* * * * *
Posts: 3847
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:25 am
Favorite Zombie Movies: The Evil Dead Series, Dawn of the Dead, Shawn of the Dead, NOTLD, Resident Evil Series
Location: Jackson, KY
Contact:

Re: Eight .22 revolvers + a drill = legal machine gun?

Post by DarkAxel » Sat Dec 27, 2014 4:45 pm

If you use air pistols here in the states, you'd be legal all the way around, drill or no drill.
vyadmirer wrote:Call me the paranoid type, but remember I'm on a post apocalyptic website prepared for zombies.
Fleet #: ZS 0180

Browncoat

Imma Fudd, and proud of it.

ZS Wiki

JoergS
* * * * *
Posts: 1460
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:15 am

Re: Eight .22 revolvers + a drill = legal machine gun?

Post by JoergS » Sat Dec 27, 2014 5:27 pm

So if I keep the length above 26" AND use a hand crank, I´'ll be fine?

That can be done. I'll need a fat shoulder rest anyway, otherwise the cranking will be very awkward.

Air guns would work, too... but for those I'd not need a gatling mechanism. Very easy to make a full auto air gun. No cartridges, no powder, no residue...

What about antique percussion muzzle loader pistols? Will that change anything?
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/JoergSprave" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My blog: http://www.slingshotchannel.blogspot.de/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My forum: http://www.theslingshotforum.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
Kommander
* * * * *
Posts: 4274
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:38 am
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Eight .22 revolvers + a drill = legal machine gun?

Post by Kommander » Sat Dec 27, 2014 5:35 pm

JoergS wrote:So if I keep the length above 26" AND use a hand crank, I´'ll be fine?
Well that would be a start. But here are other things to consider.
JoergS wrote:That can be done. I'll need a fat shoulder rest anyway, otherwise the cranking will be very awkward.
Unless you want to send the ATF schematics of what you intend to build and get their ok I would assume that any part of the gun that touches your shoulder would make it a SBR (short barreled rifle) if the pistol barrels are under 16 inches and therefore need a tax stamp.
JoergS wrote:What about antique percussion muzzle loader pistols? Will that change anything?
Actually yes, it would change allot. In the US at the federal level (some states have more restrictions) for something to be legally a firearm it must used fixed ammunition, IE metallic cartridges and be made after 1898. So those old muzzle loaders and their reproductions you can do what you like with at the federal level as they are not legally firearms.
Why must all the hoops be on fire?

Doctorr Fabulous
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
Posts: 12210
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:06 pm
Favorite Zombie Movies: Evil Dead, Zombieland, 28 Days/Weeks Later

Re: Eight .22 revolvers + a drill = legal machine gun?

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Sat Dec 27, 2014 7:51 pm

Noncartridge BP would also eliminate restrictions on caliber. Machineblunderbuss?
Opinions subject to change in light of new information.
Image
http://i.imgur.com/wG6ZMjE.jpg

eeb
* * * *
Posts: 877
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:25 pm

Re: Eight .22 revolvers + a drill = legal machine gun?

Post by eeb » Sat Dec 27, 2014 8:34 pm

The BP revolvers I've seen have all been single action. I suppose you could possibly modify a cap and ball cylinder to fit a DA frame.
"Illegal spying is not a crime. Well, it is, but fuck it."-NSA

JoergS
* * * * *
Posts: 1460
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:15 am

Re: Eight .22 revolvers + a drill = legal machine gun?

Post by JoergS » Sun Dec 28, 2014 12:57 am

Well, there is the Starr - I believe Pietta makes a replica.

http://gunsmagazine.com/the-intriguing- ... le-action/

Of course loading would be a pain in the behind. Plus those are heavy beasts.

Maybe I DO need to use rifles then - but we are talking tripod now.

EDIT: So if I use muzzle loaders, can I go back to a drill instead of a hand crank?
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/JoergSprave" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My blog: http://www.slingshotchannel.blogspot.de/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My forum: http://www.theslingshotforum.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

eeb
* * * *
Posts: 877
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:25 pm

Re: Eight .22 revolvers + a drill = legal machine gun?

Post by eeb » Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:45 pm

I've got an image of a row of muskets on a cannon carriage, in my head. But yeah, it'd be rather large and awkward, and a lot of work for the pay-off.
"Illegal spying is not a crime. Well, it is, but fuck it."-NSA

JoergS
* * * * *
Posts: 1460
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:15 am

Re: Eight .22 revolvers + a drill = legal machine gun?

Post by JoergS » Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:36 am

Here are some pics of my full auto revolver machine gun...

I christened it "Gatlingception".

Image

Image

Image
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/JoergSprave" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My blog: http://www.slingshotchannel.blogspot.de/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My forum: http://www.theslingshotforum.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
SCBrian
* * * * *
Posts: 1223
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:56 pm
Location: Charleston, SC

Re: Eight .22 revolvers + a drill = legal machine gun?

Post by SCBrian » Sat Jan 03, 2015 5:10 pm

Jorge - the way you use wood is amazing... well done!
:clap:
I tilt at Windmills
BattleVersion wrote:For my Family?...Burn down the world, sure... But, I'm also willing to carry it on my shoulders.
raptor wrote:...I am allergic to bullets;I break out in blood.
jnathan wrote:... you can choke on my Hebrew National.

eeb
* * * *
Posts: 877
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:25 pm

Re: Eight .22 revolvers + a drill = legal machine gun?

Post by eeb » Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:34 pm

Yikes! :rofl: :clap:
"Illegal spying is not a crime. Well, it is, but fuck it."-NSA

JoergS
* * * * *
Posts: 1460
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:15 am

Re: Eight .22 revolvers + a drill = legal machine gun?

Post by JoergS » Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:30 am

My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/JoergSprave" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My blog: http://www.slingshotchannel.blogspot.de/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My forum: http://www.theslingshotforum.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
raptor
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
Posts: 17060
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:18 pm
Location: Greater New Orleans Area

Re: Eight .22 revolvers + a drill = legal machine gun?

Post by raptor » Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:42 pm

Seriously that video is great. :D

User avatar
Mikeyboy
* * * * *
Posts: 2265
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 8:00 am

Re: Eight .22 revolvers + a drill = legal machine gun?

Post by Mikeyboy » Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:24 pm

two things. I had a similar cap gun growing up in the 1970's USA. Unfortunately I haven't seen a cap gun like that here in years. Damn modern wuss parents.

The other thing is the trigger pull on most .22 revolvers are usually over 10lbs. Is your inception contraption strong enough for DA rimfire heavy trigger pull?

eeb
* * * *
Posts: 877
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:25 pm

Re: Eight .22 revolvers + a drill = legal machine gun?

Post by eeb » Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:05 pm

Would look even cooler with an EOtech mounted on a tall riser over the drill. :D
"Illegal spying is not a crime. Well, it is, but fuck it."-NSA

JoergS
* * * * *
Posts: 1460
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:15 am

Re: Eight .22 revolvers + a drill = legal machine gun?

Post by JoergS » Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:56 pm

Mikeyboy wrote: The other thing is the trigger pull on most .22 revolvers are usually over 10lbs. Is your inception contraption strong enough for DA rimfire heavy trigger pull?
Sure is. I have several revolvers on my license myself and a good feeling for trigger pulls. If I would convert this to modern firearms (although I have no such plans at the moment), I'd probably use large mag pistols simply for the extended shooting time. Who knows, maybe someday I will team up with a properly licensed gun maker and give it a go. Heckler and Koch's headquarter isn't all that far from where I live :)
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/JoergSprave" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My blog: http://www.slingshotchannel.blogspot.de/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My forum: http://www.theslingshotforum.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post Reply

Return to “General Firearms Discussion”