How I get a ton of .22 for normal prices

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How I get a ton of .22 for normal prices

Post by BushcraftJared » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:05 am

I decided a while back I wanted to get a stockpile of 5,000 .22 ammo with about 5,000 descretionary ammo that I use quite requently. (Well not so much since this semester started) Anyway, being that I am on a budget and .22 ammo is extremely expensive at its market price; I turned to shopping at DSG. This tactic works at other places like DSG such as BPS. I get about 2,000 rounds a month for around $80. For about 15 minutes of work. Pretty much the old standard price of $20 for 500. The way I do this sucks if you are at work early in the morning every weekday. What I do is every Friday I stop by DSG at 9 am omw to school. I secure 2 boxes approximately every two weeks. Now I have already reached my stockpile amount so I don't do this anymore. (Actually have about 12k rounds, not much compared to some of ya'lls stockpiles lol!) Consequently, if you want to get .22 ammo for cheap, pick a day that works for you every week and pop into your local large retailer that sells .22 when they open for business. By the way guys, something that pisses me off but I understand I guess is that some people are taking advantage of this trick and are buying and reselling the ammo, please don't be one of those guys!!!!

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Re: How I get a ton of .22 for normal prices

Post by Zimmy » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:37 am

What's DSG AND BPS?
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Re: How I get a ton of .22 for normal prices

Post by BushcraftJared » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:46 am

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Re: How I get a ton of .22 for normal prices

Post by UndeadInfidel » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:47 am

So what? People doing what you've described are the reason everyone else haven't been able to buy it for the past year. Even worse are the guys that camp out every morning as you suggest, so they can take it to a gun show on the weekend and resell it to idiots for $70/box.

You're really no different from the guys reselling it, since you're just panic buying it all up and throwing it on a shelf.
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Re: How I get a ton of .22 for normal prices

Post by BushcraftJared » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:57 am

UndeadInfidel wrote:So what? People doing what you've described are the reason everyone else haven't been able to buy it for the past year. Even worse are the guys that camp out every morning as you suggest, so they can take it to a gun show on the weekend and resell it to idiots for $70/box.

You're really no different from the guys reselling it, since you're just panic buying it all up and throwing it on a shelf.
Think your just upset you havn't been innovative enough to do the same. The fact is .22 right now has a market price of ~$8 per 50 round box. That is what people are willing to pay. Finding ways to get the ammo for a cheaper price is what smart consumers do EVERY day. Are you telling me that my 12k stock is a panic buying ample amount? I have met many people with supplies of .22 reaching 50k rounds and this was while it was readily available. The problem is that the government has bought up a large amount of .22 and the manufacturers of .22 ammo are very inelastic. They can only increase production by about 20% before they begin to lose money. Many stores are becoming much smarter and have been releasing the ammo at different times of the day to avoid the people who are buying and reselling the ammo. The fact is there is only one solution to this problem and none of us are going to like it. Retailers are going to have to raise the price to equilibrium price. Which is 8-12 dollars per 50 rounds. As people stop buying the ammo, the demand will go down and force the price back down. If I were you I would be saying thank you to me because now you have a way to get ammo well below the market value. Your welcome.

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Re: How I get a ton of .22 for normal prices

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:02 am

BushcraftJared wrote: The problem is that the government has bought up a large amount of .22 and the manufacturers of .22 ammo are very inelastic. They can only increase production by about 20% before they begin to lose money. Many stores are becoming much smarter and have been releasing the ammo at different times of the day to avoid the people who are buying and reselling the ammo. The fact is there is only one solution to this problem and none of us are going to like it. Retailers are going to have to raise the price to equilibrium price. Which is 8-12 dollars per 50 rounds. As people stop buying the ammo, the demand will go down and force the price back down. If I were you I would be saying thank you to me because now you have a way to get ammo well below the market value. Your welcome.
Citation required on the bold section.

If what's going to drive prices down is people not buying .22, then why should I thank you for buying .22?
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Re: How I get a ton of .22 for normal prices

Post by BushcraftJared » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:06 am

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
BushcraftJared wrote: The problem is that the government has bought up a large amount of .22 and the manufacturers of .22 ammo are very inelastic. They can only increase production by about 20% before they begin to lose money. Many stores are becoming much smarter and have been releasing the ammo at different times of the day to avoid the people who are buying and reselling the ammo. The fact is there is only one solution to this problem and none of us are going to like it. Retailers are going to have to raise the price to equilibrium price. Which is 8-12 dollars per 50 rounds. As people stop buying the ammo, the demand will go down and force the price back down. If I were you I would be saying thank you to me because now you have a way to get ammo well below the market value. Your welcome.
Citation required on the bold section.

If what's going to drive prices down is people not buying .22, then why should I thank you for buying .22?
Demand will go down as prices go up which is inevidably what has to happen to put the .22 back on the shelf. Honestly, I guess a problem would be DSG's offering .22 at lower than market clearing prices. I'm just telling you how to get .22 for cheap. Think about rent controls in Boston, yes these rent controls keep the price low, but now people cannot get apartments and many apartment complexes have reduced the amount of apartments they offer to the public. (Some have converted to office buildings) The fact is manufacturers and retailers need to raise their prices to meet the demand. UNITL THEN, I am telling you how to get ammo WAY below what .22 is really worth!

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Re: How I get a ton of .22 for normal prices

Post by BushcraftJared » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:17 am

I understand how you guys are seeing this. You see it as .22 used to be readily available at a very cheap price and now it is not available at a cheap price. You think the problem is that people are buying it all up the second they get the chance to do so. If they are buying it, it is because the ammo is below what they are willing to pay. Thus the price is too low in this case. I am looking at this from a purely microeconomic perspective and how to get the ammo back on the shelves. I will tell you right now as long as people offer prices below equilibrium price, YOU WILL NEVER SEE .22 ON THE SHELVES EVER AGAIN. We NEED the assholes at the gun shows who are selling 100 rounds of CCI for $22. The are reducing panic buying and offering prices equal to the demand. Hopefully, in time, people will become more elastic or less inelastic depending on how you look at it, and the prices will begin to fall.

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Re: How I get a ton of .22 for normal prices

Post by Kelvar » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:22 am

I also would like to see a reliable citation on the government buying up all that .22 ammo. What does the government use .22 for?
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Re: How I get a ton of .22 for normal prices

Post by BushcraftJared » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:28 am

Kelvar wrote:I also would like to see a reliable citation on the government buying up all that .22 ammo. What does the government use .22 for?
Here you go:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/frankminite ... shortages/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The fact is in total they have bought 4.6 billion rounds. Now if I said it was .22 I misspoke. However, it doesn't matter. Manufacturers of .22 manufacture 5.56 and when they have to increase 5.56 productions their .22 production decreases. So whether or not the government bought .22 is irrelevent (even though I believe they have), it stills affects how much .22 is readily available in the market place. Once again this is a problem but it is not THE problem. THE problem is .22 is priced to low.

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Re: How I get a ton of .22 for normal prices

Post by Kelvar » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:39 am

BushcraftJared wrote:
Kelvar wrote:I also would like to see a reliable citation on the government buying up all that .22 ammo. What does the government use .22 for?
Here you go:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/frankminite ... shortages/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The fact is in total they have bought 4.6 billion rounds. Now if I said it was .22 I misspoke. However, it doesn't matter. Manufacturers of .22 manufacture 5.56 and when they have to increase 5.56 productions their .22 production decreases. So whether or not the government bought .22 is irrelevent (even though I believe they have), it stills affects how much .22 is readily available in the market place. Once again this is a problem but it is not THE problem. THE problem is .22 is priced to low.
When you make a comment like:
The problem is that the government has bought up a large amount of .22 and the manufacturers of .22 ammo are very inelastic.
then, yes, it is relevant. I do appreciate the correction, though.
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Re: How I get a ton of .22 for normal prices

Post by Kelvar » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:39 am

BushcraftJared wrote:
Kelvar wrote:I also would like to see a reliable citation on the government buying up all that .22 ammo. What does the government use .22 for?
Here you go:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/frankminite ... shortages/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The fact is in total they have bought 4.6 billion rounds. Now if I said it was .22 I misspoke. However, it doesn't matter. Manufacturers of .22 manufacture 5.56 and when they have to increase 5.56 productions their .22 production decreases. So whether or not the government bought .22 is irrelevent (even though I believe they have), it stills affects how much .22 is readily available in the market place. Once again this is a problem but it is not THE problem. THE problem is .22 is priced to low.
When you make a comment like:
The problem is that the government has bought up a large amount of .22 and the manufacturers of .22 ammo are very inelastic.
then, yes, it is relevant. I do appreciate the correction, though.
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Re: How I get a ton of .22 for normal prices

Post by Browning 35 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:41 am

The government has bought some .22LR for training, but it's not in the quantities many think and it's not for the reasons some seem to think. Check out the last link, it's an ammo solicitation form for 2010. There's other ammo solicitation forms on the second link for the subsequent years following this, but this one is an itemized list for that year and spells it out the best.

NSSF: The Truth About Uncle Sam’s Ammo Purchases

The great DHS ammo myth

DHS Ammo Solicitation Number

0001 - Ammunition, .22 LR, total of 20,000 rounds - 20 TH
0002 - Ammunition, .22 Magnum Rimfire, Winchester or equal, total of 20,000 rounds - 20 TH
0003 - Ammunition, .30 Carbine, 110 gr., total of 2,000 rounds - 2 TH
0004 - Ammunition, .30-06, 150 gr., FMJ, total of 5,000 rounds - 5 TH
0005 - Ammunition, .30-06, 168 gr., Match, Federal or equal, total of 1,000 rounds - 1 TH
0006 - Ammunition, .30-06, 150 gr., Military Surplus, Garand Clip, 192 round clips, total of 1,920 rounds - 10 EA
0007 - Ammunition, .308, 168 gr., Match Hornady TAP, Exact Match Only (reference attached Brand Name Justification), total of 10,000 rounds - 10 TH
0008 - Ammunition, .308, 175 gr., Match, BTHP, Federal or equal, total of 20,000 rounds - 20 TH
0009 - Ammunition, .308 (7.62 X 51), 146 gr., FMJ, Surplus Military, total of 1,000 rounds - 1 TH
0010 - Ammunition, .50 Beowulf, 325 gr., JHP, Alexander Arms or equal, total of 1,000 rounds - 1 TH
0011 - Ammunition, .357 Magnum, 125 gr., JHP, total of 2,000 rounds - 2 TH
0012 - Ammunition, .44 Magnum, 240 gr., JHP, total of 1,000 rounds - 1 TH
0013 - Ammunition, .44 Special, 210 gr., JHP, total of 2,000 rounds - 2 TH
0014 - Ammunition, .45 ACP, 230 gr., FMJ, total of 10,000 rounds - 10 TH
0015 - Ammunition, .45 LC, 225 gr., Silvertip HP, Winchester or equal, total of 5,000 rounds - 5 TH
0016 - Ammunition, 7.62 X 39, Russian Wolf, 124 gr., JHP, total of 1,000 rounds - 1 TH
0017 - Ammunition, 7.62 X 39, Russian, 124 gr., FMJ, Wolf or equal, total of 1,000 rounds - 1 TH
0018 - Ammunition, .38 Special, 158 gr., LRN, total of 2,000 rounds - 2 TH
0019 - Ammunition, 12 Gauge, Winchester No. AAHLA128 or equal, total of 30,000 rounds - 30 TH
0020 - Ammunition, 12 Gauge, Remington No. STS12L85 or equal, total of 30,000 rounds - 30 TH
0021 - Ammunition, 28 Gauge, Fiocchi No. VIP9 or equal, total of 30,000 rounds - 30 TH
When people panic buy guns because of the possibility of restrictive firearms legislation they tend to buy ammo along with it. Not exactly a big mystery.
Last edited by Browning 35 on Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How I get a ton of .22 for normal prices

Post by BushcraftJared » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:47 am

Sorry about that but I feel like we are digressing from the problem. Yes the government bought up a ton of rounds which has a direct (if it was .22 they bought) or indirect (manufacturers had obligations to increase other caliber productions and caused a decreased production in .22) effect on the market for the .22. HOWEVER, the ONLY solution is for sellers to meet the demand for the buyers. Increased supply is an option BUT as I said it can only be increased by a VERY limited amount.

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Re: How I get a ton of .22 for normal prices

Post by BushcraftJared » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:51 am

Browning 35 wrote:When people panic buy guns because of the possibility of restrictive firearms legislation they tend to buy ammo along with it. Not exactly a big mystery.
Panic buying is simply another way of saying the demand has skyrocketed. Once again, increased prices will calm the demand, or panic buying.

Sorry guys, it's the only solution but for now, if you want to get ammo way under market price, read my first post in this thread.

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Re: How I get a ton of .22 for normal prices

Post by BullOnParade » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:37 pm

I don't think you understand supply and demand as it influences price of goods and services.
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Re: How I get a ton of .22 for normal prices

Post by cricky101 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:52 pm

I'm confused. So the way to get .22 rounds is to buy them at the store when they have them in-stock? Am I missing something revolutionary here? Because I could for sure use some more.
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Re: How I get a ton of .22 for normal prices

Post by Browning 35 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:58 pm

BushcraftJared wrote:
Browning 35 wrote:When people panic buy guns because of the possibility of restrictive firearms legislation they tend to buy ammo along with it. Not exactly a big mystery.
Panic buying is simply another way of saying the demand has skyrocketed. Once again, increased prices will calm the demand, or panic buying.
There's a couple different ways of saying it, amounts to basically the same thing.

With panic buying there's a tinge of hysteria that's not usually present in increased demand, so that's why I used that phrase and not the other.
Sorry guys, it's the only solution but for now, if you want to get ammo way under market price, read my first post in this thread.
Most people are doing pretty much the same thing, just showing up early (that's the only real difference between pre-panic and now besides ammo search engines...which are wrong half the time about what they have in stock).

I'm just shooting what I buy and leaving my pre-panic stocks the same.
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Re: How I get a ton of .22 for normal prices

Post by Das Sheep » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:53 pm

The way to buy .22 is to go to big box sports stores the morning they get their ammo trucks in so you can buy get it at prices where you don't feel like the clerk should take you to dinner first.

In my Area this is Academy Sports or maybe Dicks.

I have also been successful getting .22lr ammo at normal prices at Academy Sports in my area, though its 8am on Saturdays.

Edit: When academy gets it in, they seem to get a LOT in. Like several cases. So I personally believe that its only in short stock around the nation still because people are buying it and stacking it deep.

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Re: How I get a ton of .22 for normal prices

Post by BushcraftJared » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:30 pm

BullOnParade wrote:I don't think you understand supply and demand as it influences price of goods and services.
Granted the supply chain would be slightly more vertical than the demand curve. I accounted for this in the numbers however, I do not know how much government ammo purchases have affected the supply curve. Where have I gone wrong? Sorry just drew this up and I suck at drawing. :)

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Re: How I get a ton of .22 for normal prices

Post by UndeadInfidel » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:43 pm

BushcraftJared wrote:
UndeadInfidel wrote:So what? People doing what you've described are the reason everyone else haven't been able to buy it for the past year. Even worse are the guys that camp out every morning as you suggest, so they can take it to a gun show on the weekend and resell it to idiots for $70/box.

You're really no different from the guys reselling it, since you're just panic buying it all up and throwing it on a shelf.
Think your just upset you havn't been innovative enough to do the same. The fact is .22 right now has a market price of ~$8 per 50 round box. That is what people are willing to pay. Finding ways to get the ammo for a cheaper price is what smart consumers do EVERY day. Are you telling me that my 12k stock is a panic buying ample amount? I have met many people with supplies of .22 reaching 50k rounds and this was while it was readily available. The problem is that the government has bought up a large amount of .22 and the manufacturers of .22 ammo are very inelastic. They can only increase production by about 20% before they begin to lose money. Many stores are becoming much smarter and have been releasing the ammo at different times of the day to avoid the people who are buying and reselling the ammo. The fact is there is only one solution to this problem and none of us are going to like it. Retailers are going to have to raise the price to equilibrium price. Which is 8-12 dollars per 50 rounds. As people stop buying the ammo, the demand will go down and force the price back down. If I were you I would be saying thank you to me because now you have a way to get ammo well below the market value. Your welcome.
I'm not "innovative" enough to camp out at a store every morning to get ammo? :roll:

Please. I bought my ammo stores before the panic buying took place. I had 15k 22lr rounds in storage before any of this even happened.
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Re: How I get a ton of .22 for normal prices

Post by Das Sheep » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:45 pm

UndeadInfidel wrote:
I'm not "innovative" enough to camp out at a store every morning to get ammo? :roll:

Please. I bought my ammo stores before the panic buying took place. I had 15k 22lr rounds in storage before any of this even happened.
I had a bunch too, I just want more. My .22lr's are fun. I have so much already....

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Re: How I get a ton of .22 for normal prices

Post by LastBoyScout » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:30 pm

When I was at shot show this year I was with friends who are big in the ammo business. As in over $1,000,000.00 a month in sales. They are not a Mom and pop store. If you do not know what the Shot show is Google it.
I was with them when they spoke to one of the big boys in manufacturing. They said the real issue is that they do not make much profit on .22 ammo so they are not increasing the production of it. They increased most of the center fire ammo production because of the demand but not .22.

They also related that they had an increase in requests for nail gun cartridges and they make money on them so they produced more of them. Since the same machines make the nail gun cartridges that means less .22 ammo.

They related that they do not intend to increase production as the machines are expensive and do not justify purchase based on the low profit on the product.

Look at what nail gun cartridges cost at a major retailer like home depot.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Hilti-0-22-C ... 057637-_-N" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

$10.00 for 100
.22 at Wal-Mart, who I would say is on par in size (ok no one is as large as Wal-Mart), is $2.00 for a 100
No lead, less weight to ship, less tax.

What would you tell your investors you are going to make more of?

The stuff that sells for $2 or the stuff that sells for $10 that costs less to make.

The only reason to make it cheap is to sell guns and you have to compete with the other makers if you do not make guns.

If demand is so high and you could sell all you could make don’t you think that someone new would start making it if the profits where there.

All the small gun shops I know really did not sell much .22 ammo as they could not compete with the box stores on it. You would go in and it would be $2.49 for a box and you would hear guys say I can get a brick for $20.00 at XYZ and then not buy it. So what guns store would stock a lot of it when they make little on it as well? The big box stores where always the place to buy it.

Just my 7 cents (inflation)

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Re: How I get a ton of .22 for normal prices

Post by feedthedog » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:30 pm

If the stores would just jack up their prices to market levels then I could actually buy some 22lr. No way in hell am I going to wait in line every morning to try to buy ammo. I'd rather just shoot something else or pay through the nose at the range if they have it.

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