Firearms Chat: [2021 - Thank you St. Benitez!]

General discussions regarding topics that aren't covered in one of the other sub-forums. NO DISCUSSION OF POLITICS!

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Re: Firearms Chat: [2021 - Thank you St. Benitez!]

Post by NT2C » Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:09 pm

PistolPete wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:56 pm
So I read through the ATF proposed law changes on pistol braces and man, it's convoluted. Combined with a "even if it doesn't meet he criteria, if the manufacturer or marketting infers shouldering, it could qualify anyway" at the end it's gonna be an interesting enforcement.

I have two AR pistols for deer hunting, since my state has an Alternative Methods season where you can use pistols, and both would be redefined as rifles by the new regs. That's disappointing. I mean, I can use a 44 mag revolver for pistol season, but 50 Beowulf out of a 12.5" barrel provides a greater opportunity for a fast and humane harvest.
I'm not seeing this as a big departure from F-Troop's usual way of doing things, where they can change their mind and classify things differently on a whim.
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Re: Firearms Chat: [2021 - Thank you St. Benitez!]

Post by RoneKiln » Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:46 am

PistolPete wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:56 pm
So I read through the ATF proposed law changes on pistol braces and man, it's convoluted. Combined with a "even if it doesn't meet he criteria, if the manufacturer or marketting infers shouldering, it could qualify anyway" at the end it's gonna be an interesting enforcement.

I have two AR pistols for deer hunting, since my state has an Alternative Methods season where you can use pistols, and both would be redefined as rifles by the new regs. That's disappointing. I mean, I can use a 44 mag revolver for pistol season, but 50 Beowulf out of a 12.5" barrel provides a greater opportunity for a fast and humane harvest.
I'm real tempted to grab another pistol brace lower "just cause." But childish defiance is playing at least a small part of that temptation, so I signed up for a wilderness first responder course instead.
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Re: Firearms Chat: [2021 - Thank you St. Benitez!]

Post by emclean » Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:32 am

NT2C wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:09 pm
PistolPete wrote:
Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:56 pm
So I read through the ATF proposed law changes on pistol braces and man, it's convoluted. Combined with a "even if it doesn't meet he criteria, if the manufacturer or marketting infers shouldering, it could qualify anyway" at the end it's gonna be an interesting enforcement.

I have two AR pistols for deer hunting, since my state has an Alternative Methods season where you can use pistols, and both would be redefined as rifles by the new regs. That's disappointing. I mean, I can use a 44 mag revolver for pistol season, but 50 Beowulf out of a 12.5" barrel provides a greater opportunity for a fast and humane harvest.
I'm not seeing this as a big departure from F-Troop's usual way of doing things, where they can change their mind and classify things differently on a whim.
on that theme, they also tossed in a line about braced firearms that use shotgun ammo as being shotguns, not being "firearms". one sentence to go from a legally purchased firearm to a felony.

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Re: Firearms Chat: [2021 - Thank you St. Benitez!]

Post by PistolPete » Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:11 am

emclean wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:32 am
on that theme, they also tossed in a line about braced firearms that use shotgun ammo as being shotguns, not being "firearms". one sentence to go from a legally purchased firearm to a felony.
Yeah, if that bit gets adopted then it creates instant felons for people who don't know the law changed.
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Re: Firearms Chat: [2021 - Thank you St. Benitez!]

Post by MacWa77ace » Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:13 pm

PistolPete wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:11 am
emclean wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:32 am
on that theme, they also tossed in a line about braced firearms that use shotgun ammo as being shotguns, not being "firearms". one sentence to go from a legally purchased firearm to a felony.
Yeah, if that bit gets adopted then it creates instant felons for people who don't know the law changed.
There's a very important 'common use' verbiage on the recently overturned Kali 'assault weapons' ban that will can be used to overturn this ATF opinion with hundreds of thousands of braces in use in the USA. It's the only reason the NFA passed in 1934 was because no one had those types of class III's back then. Literally. That couldn't pass now with SBRs, SBS, and suppressors on it since they are common use tools even with the class III registration and tax requirements of 1934.

But there's so much science on those NFA rules that just don't make sense to me. For example the VFG rule for pistols. Reason they are banned for use on pistols: because pistols are designed to be used with one hand. Someone tell me any basic pistol training class or instructor, who doesn't start everyone with the two handed grip on a pistol. :roll: So no VFG, then the brace is invented, but noooooooo, you still gotta shoot like Jack and Joe from the 70's.

When are 'the people' going to legislate the AFT into a bureaucracy that does NOT MAKE LAWs they can then enforce? When was the last time your local LEO made up something to enforce?!? They can try but they'd fired for that.
  • LEO: I'm sorry miss, but I've outlawed yoga pants within 100 yds of a school. I'm going to have to take you in for that first class felony. Don't tell me you didn't hear about that, ignorance is no excuse.
    LEO: Mr. do you know that car is in violation of my POS act? I'm going to have to arrest you and impound your vehicle.

    ATF1: What's on the agenda after braces?
    ATF2: All guns finished in the colors black, grey, FDE, or Green, or any combination of those colors will be illegal if not registered and taxed within the next 30 days.
    ATF3: NO, I wanna do the 'you can't use two hands on a pistol' rule next, 'cause the shouldering the brace thing worked, so lets do the one handed pistols only and ride that wave.
IMO though, there shouldn't be any such need for braces since SBRs, SBSs, and suppressors are also, and have been, common use tools for military, police and civilians for at least the last 30 years.
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Re: Firearms Chat: [2021 - Thank you St. Benitez!]

Post by RickOShea » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:51 pm

MPMalloy wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:59 pm
RickOShea wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:45 pm
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Nice looking Ruger :wink:
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Re: Firearms Chat: [2021 - Thank you St. Benitez!]

Post by woodsghost » Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:10 am

Just a learning point:

.38 Spl is running $1.00/rnd on average. Or more. It seems clear either makers are not prioritizing the round or....there are so many people buying it up that there is a heavier demand vs supply pressure than for 9mm.

That is not something I thought would happen. I can't believe my supply of .38 reloads would be such a valuable use of my time.

Right now, reloading 9mm I save $20/hr vs buying.

For .38, I save $40+/hr vs buying.

For .357, I save $30/hr vs buying.

This world is nuts.

Reloading .38 and .357 has always paid more than reloading 9mm. Right now, if you have the components, it really pays to reload. But I'd not calculated the actual savings per hour. Pretty wild.

In the past, the economics for reloading .357 was better than reloading for .38
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Re: Firearms Chat: [2021 - Thank you St. Benitez!]

Post by 91Eunozs » Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:27 pm

@woodsghost I’d not looked at it that way either… Now I feel even better about upgrading my reloading bench with a bunch of stuff from inline fabrication!

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Now to convince the accountant (wife) that we can’t afford NOT to buy a new semi-automated progressive press! LOL.

This past year has once again shown the reality of prepping…if you don’t have it in hand when “it” happens (whatever “it” happens to be, you’re not likely going to get it. At least not cheaply or easily…. I hope folks are watching ammo and component prices too; they’re very, very slowly returning to something resembling what we used to call normal. I don’t think it’ll be as cheap as it was three years ago for some time though…if ever.

More to the point, Having a skill like reloading, the ability to grow your own food (land and the skill sets), etc. in the first place exponentially increases your ability to function in that capacity vs. relying on others or the market.
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Re: Firearms Chat: [2021 - Thank you St. Benitez!]

Post by emclean » Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:57 am

MacWa77ace wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:13 pm
IMO though, there shouldn't be any such need for braces since SBRs, SBSs, and suppressors are also, and have been, common use tools for military, police and civilians for at least the last 30 years.
the problem goes back to MIller, and that no one showed up to defend his case to the SCOTUS. no one was there to tell the court that NFA weapons were used by the militia.

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