The Poor Man’s Prepping

A place to discuss special considerations involved prepping and reacting to a disaster with children, pets and other family concerns.

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Doctorr Fabulous
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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:18 pm

zombiepreparation wrote:
gundogs wrote:
zombiepreparation wrote: I have yet to find a way to stack my 2 ltr bottles effectively so they don't take up so much room.
Sure you can stack 2l bottles. Put 20 or so bottles on floor,then lay a thin piece of plywood on top---repeat up to 4-5 layers.
Well there you go. Thanks!

Now I, personally, don't have any monies for plywood or any way to cut it to fit the area I need (or any way to get it home :lol: ) but that's a great idea if I ever do or if someone else does now!
Cardboard can also work if you stack low and use several sheets. Alternatively, go to the walmart/tesco/Tim hortons (sorry Canucks, don't know what your big megastroes are, so Tim's has to suffice) and ask for any pallets they're gonna trash. With some luck, you can get free wood and nails and make yourself a little rack for them. i store my water-2Ls on their side in the bottom of my pantry. They go wall to wall, and when i want to add or remove one, they slide right out liek it's nothing.
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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by zombiepreparation » Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:54 am

Cardboard I can get!!!

Stack them on their side? I had wondered about that kind of stacking myself, also wondering if that could bring leaks from pressure. But you have paved the way ahead of me!

My mind is already forming my plan! I can already see doubling my water storage in the same square footage it takes up now in my tiny studio apartment.

ZombieSquad. Luv it.

The personal effectiveness of this board is:
Talk starts with water.
A poster mentions purchased bottled water as a lesser choice for real cost effectiveness.
A poster reads that and mentions the cost & lack of resources & space for themselves to use better methods.
That post is read & and an excellent suggestion is made for a stacking solution using plywood.
That post is read, appreciated, and adds a few more barriers that plywood would bring for them .
Someone reads that post, suggesting a cardboard alternative and stacking the bottles on their side.

And voila! An extremely Poor Man's Prepper sees the way to double his/her water storage in a tiny studio apartment!

ZombieSquad! Conversations that get things done!

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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by gundogs » Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:05 pm

zombiepreparation wrote:Cardboard I can get!!!

Stack them on their side? I had wondered about that kind of stacking myself, also wondering if that could bring leaks from pressure. But you have paved the way ahead of me!

My mind is already forming my plan! I can already see doubling my water storage in the same square footage it takes up now in my tiny studio apartment.

ZombieSquad. Luv it.

The personal effectiveness of this board is:
Talk starts with water.
A poster mentions purchased bottled water as a lesser choice for real cost effectiveness.
A poster reads that and mentions the cost & lack of resources & space for themselves to use better methods.
That post is read & and an excellent suggestion is made for a stacking solution using plywood.
That post is read, appreciated, and adds a few more barriers that plywood would bring for them .
Someone reads that post, suggesting a cardboard alternative and stacking the bottles on their side.

And voila! An extremely Poor Man's Prepper sees the way to double his/her water storage in a tiny studio apartment!

ZombieSquad! Conversations that get things done!
Well,I mentioned plywood for a reason. I had tried cardboard and had one bottle leak. It caused the cardboard to weaken
and caused a partial collapse of the stack.
Try a construction site---I often find wood scraps there. Ask a worker--they're usually happy to save some dumpster space

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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by zombiepreparation » Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:17 pm

Well there ya go! More conversation. More information.

ZS at its best!

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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by KnightoftheRoc » Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:50 pm

zombiepreparation wrote:Well, yeah, but it could be sort of like me with the water.

I 'do' have a supply in cleaned 2 ltr soda bottles.. but for them to stay safe they have to be emptied and refilled every year, and scientifically every six months is best.

However the bottled water does not need this as long as the bottle remains unopened. So that's one plus for store bought even if it is tap.
...
OK, I have to weigh in on this. I'm a master plumber, so water is pretty much my "thing", and I mention this so you'll know that I know what I'm talking about.

This idea that water, once PROPERLY stored, somehow wears out, or goes bad, is absolutely utter bull- don't buy into it.
Water is about as basic a compound molecule as you can have, and it's as stable as it gets, even more than many ELEMENTS.
There's nothing about it that 'wears out', it doesn't degrade into some other compounds, and doesn't care if it's exposed to UV rays. It won't spontaneously re-animate dead cellular life, nor spontaneously spawn new lifeforms- it's NOT the primordial ooze, after all.

Properly stored water MAY, at worst, takes on a stale-ish taste, but this is the fault of the storage container materials, and can be avoided if you plan ahead. 2L water storage in re-purposed soda bottles is a safe, durable choice, as well as being affordable. (You already paid for them when you bought the soda). You pay for the water, in one way or another, and dumping it out to rotate your stock is wasteful of not just water, but your time, effort, and prep-budget money as well.

If you use food-grade containers of adequate construction, ie; NOT milk jugs, prepare them and the water correctly, and then keep it properly sealed, that water will be good when your great grandkids go to use it.

Now, like I said, I'm a master plumber by trade, and as a result, I've learned a lot about water. That said, if someone can point me to a source that proves me wrong with some decent science to back it up, I'll happily admit I am wrong, and correct every post I've ever made on the subject. To date, no one has.
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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by ZombieGranny » Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:05 pm

Thanks for that post, KOTR!
Always glad to have a professional opinion on these sort of topics.
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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by gundogs » Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:48 am

KnightoftheRoc wrote:
zombiepreparation wrote:Well, yeah, but it could be sort of like me with the water.

I 'do' have a supply in cleaned 2 ltr soda bottles.. but for them to stay safe they have to be emptied and refilled every year, and scientifically every six months is best.

However the bottled water does not need this as long as the bottle remains unopened. So that's one plus for store bought even if it is tap.
...
OK, I have to weigh in on this. I'm a master plumber, so water is pretty much my "thing", and I mention this so you'll know that I know what I'm talking about.

This idea that water, once PROPERLY stored, somehow wears out, or goes bad, is absolutely utter bull- don't buy into it.
Water is about as basic a compound molecule as you can have, and it's as stable as it gets, even more than many ELEMENTS.
There's nothing about it that 'wears out', it doesn't degrade into some other compounds, and doesn't care if it's exposed to UV rays. It won't spontaneously re-animate dead cellular life, nor spontaneously spawn new lifeforms- it's NOT the primordial ooze, after all.

Properly stored water MAY, at worst, takes on a stale-ish taste, but this is the fault of the storage container materials, and can be avoided if you plan ahead. 2L water storage in re-purposed soda bottles is a safe, durable choice, as well as being affordable. (You already paid for them when you bought the soda). You pay for the water, in one way or another, and dumping it out to rotate your stock is wasteful of not just water, but your time, effort, and prep-budget money as well.

If you use food-grade containers of adequate construction, ie; NOT milk jugs, prepare them and the water correctly, and then keep it properly sealed, that water will be good when your great grandkids go to use it.

Now, like I said, I'm a master plumber by trade, and as a result, I've learned a lot about water. That said, if someone can point me to a source that proves me wrong with some decent science to back it up, I'll happily admit I am wrong, and correct every post I've ever made on the subject. To date, no one has.
I totally agree,but it's almost impossible to convince people that this is true. I have shown people water that I've had stored in a dark place for 6 years
and even drank some. They still scoffed! Their minds have been so influenced by marketing BS. What a killing has been made over the sale of
bottled water

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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by MPMalloy » Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:10 am

gundogs wrote:
KnightoftheRoc wrote:
zombiepreparation wrote:Well, yeah, but it could be sort of like me with the water.

I 'do' have a supply in cleaned 2 ltr soda bottles.. but for them to stay safe they have to be emptied and refilled every year, and scientifically every six months is best.

However the bottled water does not need this as long as the bottle remains unopened. So that's one plus for store bought even if it is tap.
...
OK, I have to weigh in on this. I'm a master plumber, so water is pretty much my "thing", and I mention this so you'll know that I know what I'm talking about.

This idea that water, once PROPERLY stored, somehow wears out, or goes bad, is absolutely utter bull- don't buy into it.
Water is about as basic a compound molecule as you can have, and it's as stable as it gets, even more than many ELEMENTS.
There's nothing about it that 'wears out', it doesn't degrade into some other compounds, and doesn't care if it's exposed to UV rays. It won't spontaneously re-animate dead cellular life, nor spontaneously spawn new lifeforms- it's NOT the primordial ooze, after all.

Properly stored water MAY, at worst, takes on a stale-ish taste, but this is the fault of the storage container materials, and can be avoided if you plan ahead. 2L water storage in re-purposed soda bottles is a safe, durable choice, as well as being affordable. (You already paid for them when you bought the soda). You pay for the water, in one way or another, and dumping it out to rotate your stock is wasteful of not just water, but your time, effort, and prep-budget money as well.

If you use food-grade containers of adequate construction, ie; NOT milk jugs, prepare them and the water correctly, and then keep it properly sealed, that water will be good when your great grandkids go to use it.

Now, like I said, I'm a master plumber by trade, and as a result, I've learned a lot about water. That said, if someone can point me to a source that proves me wrong with some decent science to back it up, I'll happily admit I am wrong, and correct every post I've ever made on the subject. To date, no one has.
I totally agree,but it's almost impossible to convince people that this is true. I have shown people water that I've had stored in a dark place for 6 years
and even drank some. They still scoffed! Their minds have been so influenced by marketing BS. What a killing has been made over the sale of
bottled water

I too, agree. Another thing that I find is that people put bleach in with tap water when storing it. People, you do not need to treat tap water. The city water works has already taken care of everything. All you need to do is pour & store.

Odinsown

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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by gundogs » Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:51 am

Odinsown wrote:
gundogs wrote:
KnightoftheRoc wrote:
zombiepreparation wrote:Well, yeah, but it could be sort of like me with the water.

I 'do' have a supply in cleaned 2 ltr soda bottles.. but for them to stay safe they have to be emptied and refilled every year, and scientifically every six months is best.

However the bottled water does not need this as long as the bottle remains unopened. So that's one plus for store bought even if it is tap.
...
OK, I have to weigh in on this. I'm a master plumber, so water is pretty much my "thing", and I mention this so you'll know that I know what I'm talking about.

This idea that water, once PROPERLY stored, somehow wears out, or goes bad, is absolutely utter bull- don't buy into it.
Water is about as basic a compound molecule as you can have, and it's as stable as it gets, even more than many ELEMENTS.
There's nothing about it that 'wears out', it doesn't degrade into some other compounds, and doesn't care if it's exposed to UV rays. It won't spontaneously re-animate dead cellular life, nor spontaneously spawn new lifeforms- it's NOT the primordial ooze, after all.

Properly stored water MAY, at worst, takes on a stale-ish taste, but this is the fault of the storage container materials, and can be avoided if you plan ahead. 2L water storage in re-purposed soda bottles is a safe, durable choice, as well as being affordable. (You already paid for them when you bought the soda). You pay for the water, in one way or another, and dumping it out to rotate your stock is wasteful of not just water, but your time, effort, and prep-budget money as well.

If you use food-grade containers of adequate construction, ie; NOT milk jugs, prepare them and the water correctly, and then keep it properly sealed, that water will be good when your great grandkids go to use it.

Now, like I said, I'm a master plumber by trade, and as a result, I've learned a lot about water. That said, if someone can point me to a source that proves me wrong with some decent science to back it up, I'll happily admit I am wrong, and correct every post I've ever made on the subject. To date, no one has.
I totally agree,but it's almost impossible to convince people that this is true. I have shown people water that I've had stored in a dark place for 6 years
and even drank some. They still scoffed! Their minds have been so influenced by marketing BS. What a killing has been made over the sale of
bottled water

I too, agree. Another thing that I find is that people put bleach in with tap water when storing it. People, you do not need to treat tap water. The city water works has already taken care of everything. All you need to do is pour & store.

Odinsown
True,with municipally supplied water.And those with deep wells may forget or not realize that the water tapped is untreated & may have been
sitting there for centuries and remains palatable.
I have a sister who spends about $500/year on bottled water. This thread is about "poor man's" prepping.
That money spent on bottled water could be spent on many other items instead
Last edited by gundogs on Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by gundogs » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:32 am

And possibly another reason to avoid buying bottled water;

http://www.naturalnews.com/043252_Harva ... ptors.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by zombiekilling » Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:08 am

Great tips for prepping in a budget! Thanks!

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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by majorhavoc » Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:06 pm

Came across this today, which is an obvious copy of the Goal Zero Guide 10 solar kit. Right down to the 12 volt accessory adaptor and four cell USB rechargeable powerpack with LED flashlight. At $49.99, less than half the price of the real McCoy. Amazon user reviews seem to confirm the included AA batteries are NiMH.

I haven't put this in Bug Out Deals thread because I just don't have any good sense of whether this is a good product or not. Maybe some brave soul here at ZS will do a hands on review for us .........

http://www.amazon.com/SolarAid%C2%AE-So ... olar+panel

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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by Norseman06 » Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:00 pm

I was told my post on five dollar food preps might be a good addition to this thread.
Let me know what you think?

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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by zombiepreparation » Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:14 pm

KnightoftheRoc wrote:
zombiepreparation wrote:Well, yeah, but it could be sort of like me with the water.

I 'do' have a supply in cleaned 2 ltr soda bottles.. but for them to stay safe they have to be emptied and refilled every year, and scientifically every six months is best.

However the bottled water does not need this as long as the bottle remains unopened. So that's one plus for store bought even if it is tap.
...
OK, I have to weigh in on this. I'm a master plumber, so water is pretty much my "thing", and I mention this so you'll know that I know what I'm talking about.

This idea that water, once PROPERLY stored, somehow wears out, or goes bad, is absolutely utter bull- don't buy into it.
Since you are quoting me.....

I absolutely completely totally agree with you that
once PROPERLY stored
water is potable safe for... I guess ever.

As to the science related to "PROPERLY stored" that I've posted here which, I don't know, you might(?)/seem(?) to be having issue with? My previous computer with that information died (ack) months ago and I didn't make a back-up of my proper/safe water storage research (drat). It didn't occur to me I suppose. I just learned it and moved on. Then the computer that held the information that I could go back and refer to for you died. Sorry.

I do unequivocally stand by what I have posted though, and if in the days or months that come to pass I do indeed begin the research again for you, or even stumble onto bits and pieces of it, I will certainly pass it over to you!

(sorry for the delay in response. just saw this post a couple of days ago and see that it was posted weeks ago.)

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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by KnightoftheRoc » Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:31 pm

@zombiepreparation:
I'm not taking issue with YOUR research, or even with you, personally- how could I when I don't know either? So, please don't feel like I singled you out to be nasty- I quoted your post because it was current and related to the discussion.

The reason I stressed PROPERLY STORED, was to point out that water CAN become tainted if improperly stored, say, leakage occurs and the container sucks in some bacteria or such with ambient air, or the prep-work was perhaps sub-par. Or, maybe the choice of container allowed some chemical leaching into the water. All of which could have been prevented with good research ahead of time, and some planning. It sounds like you spent a good deal of time on the research part, which many people do not. Very often, people decide to store water, and just start filling any old container, with the expectation that it will be safe to drink at a later date.

I myself use 2 liter bottles for water storage, treating the water with bleach when they are filled. I'm told I'm poisoning the water doing that by some people, but those people have not done any research into it- in 6 months or so, that bleach in my water has become common table salt, and in such a small amount compared to the water volume, it's not worth considering from a dietary viewpoint. By which point, it's long since done it's job, despite the fact that I'm using municipal water (and regardless of the fact that my city has one of the highest water quality ratings in the state). I choose to add the bleach so I KNOW what's been done with my water, and won't have to assume anything, or take it on faith that it's safe.

The only point with which I take issue, and only mention it because I hate to see someone wasting their effort, time, or money, is where you said "I 'do' have a supply in cleaned 2 ltr soda bottles.. but for them to stay safe they have to be emptied and refilled every year, and scientifically every six months is best." Soda bottles are already a food-safe material, so I cannot see why you'd literally pour the stored water, your time, effort, and money, down the drain, when it's not needed.

So, please don't take offense- my post was intended to educate anyone reading this thread, not to bash you.
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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by zombiepreparation » Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:49 am

I think we are probably pretty close in most of our thinking about water storage and didn't for a moment feel bashed or anything. And sincerely hope my reply didn't read as being defensive because I don't remember feeling the least defensive when I wrote it. Your above reply was very kind though.

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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by zobmiedown » Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:01 pm

OK since I have never done this my question would be how much bleach are people putting into a 2 liter soda bottle with their water?
Regulators mount up.

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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by Doctorr Fabulous » Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:28 pm

zobmiedown wrote:OK since I have never done this my question would be how much bleach are people putting into a 2 liter soda bottle with their water?
I don't. I clean them with a bit of bleach and water, but tap water is chlorinated and fluoridated already.

http://www.ready.gov/water
STORING WATER IN PLASTIC SODA BOTTLES

Follow these steps for storing water in plastic soda bottles.

Thoroughly clean the bottles with dishwashing soap and water, and rinse completely so there is no residual soap.

Sanitize the bottles by adding a solution of 1 teaspoon of non-scented liquid household chlorine bleach to a quart of water. Mix the sanitizing solution in the bottle so that it touches all surfaces. After sanitizing the bottle, thoroughly rinse out the sanitizing solution with clean water.

Fill the bottle to the top with regular tap water. If the tap water has been commercially treated from a water utility with chlorine, you do not need to add anything else to the water to keep it clean. If the water you are using comes from a well or water source that is not treated with chlorine, add two drops of non-scented liquid household chlorine bleach to the water. Let the water stand for 30 minutes before using.

A slight chlorine odor should be noticeable in the water, if not, add another dose of bleach and allow the water to stand another 15 minutes.

Tightly close the container using the original cap. Be careful not to contaminate the cap by touching the inside of it with your finger. Place a date on the outside of the container so you can know when you filled it. Store in cool, dark place.

Water can also be treated with water purification tablets that can be purchased at most sporting goods stores.

Water that has not been commercially bottled should be replaced every six months.

More information on water treatment is available at RedCross.org.
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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by duodecima » Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:36 am

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
zobmiedown wrote:OK since I have never done this my question would be how much bleach are people putting into a 2 liter soda bottle with their water?
I don't. I clean them with a bit of bleach and water, but tap water is chlorinated and fluoridated already.
Doc beat me to it, I rinse them with a little bit of bleach water and let them dry, (which was what we did to dishes way back when I worked in a pizza place kitchen). But I'm in town now, I'd add a couple drops of bleach to the 2L bottle of water if I was still on well water.
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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by zombiepreparation » Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:40 pm

Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
zobmiedown wrote:OK since I have never done this my question would be how much bleach are people putting into a 2 liter soda bottle with their water?
I don't. I clean them with a bit of bleach and water, but tap water is chlorinated and fluoridated already.
That is also what I have learned. Adding bleach to stored water used to be standard though as more research was done this practice has become outdated.

The information Doctorr Fabulous posted on water storage agrees with my own.

[EDIT: My own information is 'only' with city supplied chlorinated tap water because that is what I have. But I have ZERO knowledge about well water storage or any other natural sources that might be available for storage.]
Last edited by zombiepreparation on Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by Murphman » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:55 am

I bought these tablets for when I do large canning batches, i.e. more than my dishwasher holds, and now also use it when I brew beer and wine. I used them when a bartender in college, and they work tremendously for large batches. I am assuming they would do the same for 2 liter bottles. 2 tablets cost roughly 8 cents and will sterilize your entire batch of bottles or jars. I am still on the first bottle, and I have canned 100+ quarts of veggies/meats, 10+ cases of beer and 30+ gallons of wine.

http://www.amazon.com/Steramine-Quatern ... ng+tablets" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Approvals:
http://www.sanitize.com/why_sanitize.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Comparison to bleach:
http://www.sanitize.com/compare.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by NWDub » Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:02 pm

I recommend "one step" for rinsing your 2l water bottles.

available on amazon or home brewing stores/websites. works great in conjunction with a draft line cleaner (long metal hose brush) for camelback cleaning.

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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by slicknickns » Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:15 am

KnightoftheRoc wrote:
This idea that water, once PROPERLY stored, somehow wears out, or goes bad, is absolutely utter bull- don't buy into it.
Water is about as basic a compound molecule as you can have, and it's as stable as it gets, even more than many ELEMENTS.
There's nothing about it that 'wears out', it doesn't degrade into some other compounds, and doesn't care if it's exposed to UV rays. It won't spontaneously re-animate dead cellular life, nor spontaneously spawn new lifeforms- it's NOT the primordial ooze, after all.

Properly stored water MAY, at worst, takes on a stale-ish taste, but this is the fault of the storage container materials, and can be avoided if you plan ahead. 2L water storage in re-purposed soda bottles is a safe, durable choice, as well as being affordable. (You already paid for them when you bought the soda). You pay for the water, in one way or another, and dumping it out to rotate your stock is wasteful of not just water, but your time, effort, and prep-budget money as well.
This.

I keep all my prepped water in gallon jugs and a few packages of smaller sized water bottles. Other than the plastic itself releasing chemicals into the water itself, I have no concern. My water is all kept in cold, dark areas also, so....

As for storing recycled or previously used 2L bottles; that does seem to help
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zobmiedown
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Location: sierra vista az

Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by zobmiedown » Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:21 pm

Well I am on well water here so not city chlorination for me. Maybe a couple drops of bleach would be my best solution. I don't have a risk of loosing my water supply as much as city provided water since as long as I can power the well pump I have water. I am looking at switching the well over to solar and I do have two generators and 50 gallons of gas stored as well that I rotate on a regular basis.

What I don't have a lot of is 2L soda bottles. Probably because beer and wine don't come packaged in those..... :lol:
Regulators mount up.

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