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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:12 pm 
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I have some long term water pouches like the ones pictured below. They have an expiration date like everything does these days, does anyone know how long past the date they are good for and at what point you should throw them out?

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They are have been in the same spot in the bottom of a pantry in their sealed cases and never moved since purchased new.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 3:32 pm 
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Don't put yourself in this position in the first place. If you're storing entire, sealed cases of individual water pouches in your pantry, then rethink how you store water. Consider bulk containers. Add a few drops of chlorine bleach per gallon and if you're really concerned about long term potability, cycle out the water every year or two.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 4:51 pm 
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majorhavoc wrote:
Don't put yourself in this position in the first place. If you're storing entire, sealed cases of individual water pouches in your pantry, then rethink how you store water. Consider bulk containers. Add a few drops of chlorine bleach per gallon and if you're really concerned about long term potability, cycle out the water every year or two.


Thats what I normally do, however a few years back these were the current production and I got these cases for free so I could not pass it up! If I throw them away its didnt cost me a penny, so not worried about it in that way. I have a few hundred gallons of water stored in bulk along with a few filtration options and 5 gallon water cans that I use for camping that I can fill if things look sketchy.

My thought was that with the mylar pouches it should last indefinitely, I was thinking that the reason they had the expiration is that they are picturing these in your car or boat kit and they are always moving around and maybe physically wearing the pouches compromising their integrity. Since thats not the case maybe they will last much longer? Thats where I was wanting others opinion.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:12 pm 
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I would imagine they would be fine indefinitely as long as they aren't punctured or a seal compromised. The water in those pouches is supposed to be sterile. So there is nothing in it to actually go bad.

Expiration dates only mean that is the extent the company guarantees flavor/freshness and has nothing to do with food's actual safe consumption.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:44 pm 
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I agree. They're sure to beat rain water for a looooong time.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 6:11 pm 
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I would tend to agree that the water in those pouches isn't going to go "bad" any time soon. Sounds like you're well prepared water wise and the mylar pouches are just one minor component of that. It's good to hear that you have multiple filtration options, a vital part of anyone's long term water preps.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 7:07 pm 
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In general, water is really something that goes bad but there still is some concern with long-term storage of this type. I tend to follow the rule that if it is more than 25 years old I probably should reconsider its quality. In general, cycling water is always a good idea.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:31 pm 
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The manufacture date on these is 12/08, the expiration date is 11/13. So would the best thing to do just pop a few open from time to time to check if they still seem fine?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:20 am 
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they would make fun reactive targets...

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:51 am 
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emclean wrote:
they would make fun reactive targets...


Yes... i bet they would really splat when hit! Good idea, so at least we will get use out of them one way or another!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 3:27 pm 
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I just popped open a 2 yr old case of bottled water that has been sitting in an unused bedroom here in my house.

Tastes the same as the bottled water I just purchased at the store recently.

Although relatively expensive I am sure your water will be good for a long while.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:48 pm 
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I only put those in my cars. I work at a place that makes life rafts and they all have those little pouches. They are great for big temperature swings unlike a plastic bottle that WILL rupture or leak in you car after at least a year. I just pack them in either one of the storage cubbies in my wife's car, or in the spare tire compartment of my car. That way I at least have a backup of water in case I break down and already used up the water I normally take with me on trips.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:25 pm 
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Water doesnt have an expiration date as long as the container isn't compromised. If you can squeeze it without water coming out, its good.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:55 pm 
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techmonkey wrote:
They are great for big temperature swings unlike a plastic bottle that WILL rupture or leak in you car after at least a year.

I have not found that to be so even with my poor, beaten-up bottles...
From a post I made May 27, 2014
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Last week when we went swimming we opened the last gallon bottle of water that's been in my trunk for the past 8 years.
Tasted like ambrosia at the time, still tastes good. No one got the trots, no plastic taste.
Feel free if it makes you feel better, but I see no need to rotate water all the time.
Going to buy some more just like it.
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And yep - I bought more, some are sitting in my trunk as I type.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:50 pm 
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Leeching isn't something you would always taste. I'm no expert on plastics but I am a bit of a subject matter expert on bottling and it's something I wouldn't consider for a long-term solution. Granted, we all want to buy once, cry once, and have the items ready when SHTF but this is a world of temporary, ready made things and they should be treated as such. Cycle them out, it's not worth the risk, especially when your health may be the only thing you have left to save your own life. I wish I could bring samples into our lab for analysis and culturing but unfortunately, it's a sealed environment and that's a big no no, otherwise I could test these very things.

So, some outside factors to mull over when making your decision. Firstly, the dates mean nothing if the process isn't at the highest quality possible. Introduction of bacteria or other baddies in the packaging/bottling facility are almost always going to happen. The trick is introducing the least amount possible. Every material type has its downfalls and will fail at a different point, knowing those points is the difficult part but some science has been released to the general public, ie BPA's. Second, introduction of chemicals through leeching, just like BPA's, can be a factor from the environment and also the material itself. Third, the package itself and what seals it. This one is probably going to be the biggest factor when dealing with water, especially if it's been distilled, RO filtered, or is aseptic. If all of the seals are good and you have that freshness seal when you open it, chances are you're good if the other two factors are in line. A seal means nothing if a lot of bacteria was there to begin with, mixed with non-optimal temps could result in a lot of growth even if the seal is perfect.

So, my solution to this all. Keep a sealed, new, filtration system for your water only to be used post-SHTF that can remove chemicals from the water. Filter what you drink or eat from, don't worry about washing or bathing water as long as you're using soap. As I said, I'm no expert on the plastics and what type or amount of degradation happens over time, but I do produce somewhere around 1,000,000 lbs worth of product to be bottled per night at my job.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:56 pm 
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Dragon80 wrote:
Leeching isn't something you would always taste. I'm no expert on plastics but I am a bit of a subject matter expert on bottling and it's something I wouldn't consider for a long-term solution. Granted, we all want to buy once, cry once, and have the items ready when SHTF but this is a world of temporary, ready made things and they should be treated as such. Cycle them out, it's not worth the risk, especially when your health may be the only thing you have left to save your own life. I wish I could bring samples into our lab for analysis and culturing but unfortunately, it's a sealed environment and that's a big no no, otherwise I could test these very things.

So, some outside factors to mull over when making your decision. Firstly, the dates mean nothing if the process isn't at the highest quality possible. Introduction of bacteria or other baddies in the packaging/bottling facility are almost always going to happen. The trick is introducing the least amount possible. Every material type has its downfalls and will fail at a different point, knowing those points is the difficult part but some science has been released to the general public, ie BPA's. Second, introduction of chemicals through leeching, just like BPA's, can be a factor from the environment and also the material itself. Third, the package itself and what seals it. This one is probably going to be the biggest factor when dealing with water, especially if it's been distilled, RO filtered, or is aseptic. If all of the seals are good and you have that freshness seal when you open it, chances are you're good if the other two factors are in line. A seal means nothing if a lot of bacteria was there to begin with, mixed with non-optimal temps could result in a lot of growth even if the seal is perfect.

So, my solution to this all. Keep a sealed, new, filtration system for your water only to be used post-SHTF that can remove chemicals from the water. Filter what you drink or eat from, don't worry about washing or bathing water as long as you're using soap. As I said, I'm no expert on the plastics and what type or amount of degradation happens over time, but I do produce somewhere around 1,000,000 lbs worth of product to be bottled per night at my job.


Wouldn't you have to know which chemicals are being leeched, and in what amount, before you couch decide on a filtration system?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:11 am 
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Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
Dragon80 wrote:
Leeching isn't something you would always taste. I'm no expert on plastics but I am a bit of a subject matter expert on bottling and it's something I wouldn't consider for a long-term solution. Granted, we all want to buy once, cry once, and have the items ready when SHTF but this is a world of temporary, ready made things and they should be treated as such. Cycle them out, it's not worth the risk, especially when your health may be the only thing you have left to save your own life. I wish I could bring samples into our lab for analysis and culturing but unfortunately, it's a sealed environment and that's a big no no, otherwise I could test these very things.

So, some outside factors to mull over when making your decision. Firstly, the dates mean nothing if the process isn't at the highest quality possible. Introduction of bacteria or other baddies in the packaging/bottling facility are almost always going to happen. The trick is introducing the least amount possible. Every material type has its downfalls and will fail at a different point, knowing those points is the difficult part but some science has been released to the general public, ie BPA's. Second, introduction of chemicals through leeching, just like BPA's, can be a factor from the environment and also the material itself. Third, the package itself and what seals it. This one is probably going to be the biggest factor when dealing with water, especially if it's been distilled, RO filtered, or is aseptic. If all of the seals are good and you have that freshness seal when you open it, chances are you're good if the other two factors are in line. A seal means nothing if a lot of bacteria was there to begin with, mixed with non-optimal temps could result in a lot of growth even if the seal is perfect.

So, my solution to this all. Keep a sealed, new, filtration system for your water only to be used post-SHTF that can remove chemicals from the water. Filter what you drink or eat from, don't worry about washing or bathing water as long as you're using soap. As I said, I'm no expert on the plastics and what type or amount of degradation happens over time, but I do produce somewhere around 1,000,000 lbs worth of product to be bottled per night at my job.


Wouldn't you have to know which chemicals are being leeched, and in what amount, before you couch decide on a filtration system?



Probably to an extent but since most are made from PET/Petroleum hydrocarbons, you could use activated charcoal to do a majority of the heavy lifting. I couldn't see heavier metals being an issue at all because the dosages are so low in general that Reverse Osmosis probably isn't as necessary. A multi-tier system could work as well if you're a nut like me (Sometimes I'll use my Sawyer Squeeze and a Steri-pen lol). Some trace minerals we NEED (electrolytes, magnesium, etc,.) so we don't want to remove everything. There's no simple answer, hardly any of this will cause adverse side effects quickly because it's accumulative but still something to watch out for.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:56 am 
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What bacterial or viral strains are going to survive in a sealed bottle of commercially clean water over the long haul? What would they feed on?

I wouldn't bottle my own water for long-term storage without maintenance, but I wouldn't hesitate to drink a sealed decade old bottle if I found it.


Do you think it's safe to assume that in general terms, commercially bottled products are safe? If not, what criteria do you use to determine whether a given can of soda or soup is full of bacteria?
I'm not really concerned about PET leeching into water.


Dragon80 wrote:
Leeching isn't something you would always taste. I'm no expert on plastics but I am a bit of a subject matter expert on bottling and it's something I wouldn't consider for a long-term solution. Granted, we all want to buy once, cry once, and have the items ready when SHTF but this is a world of temporary, ready made things and they should be treated as such. Cycle them out, it's not worth the risk, especially when your health may be the only thing you have left to save your own life. I wish I could bring samples into our lab for analysis and culturing but unfortunately, it's a sealed environment and that's a big no no, otherwise I could test these very things.

So, some outside factors to mull over when making your decision. Firstly, the dates mean nothing if the process isn't at the highest quality possible. Introduction of bacteria or other baddies in the packaging/bottling facility are almost always going to happen. The trick is introducing the least amount possible. Every material type has its downfalls and will fail at a different point, knowing those points is the difficult part but some science has been released to the general public, ie BPA's. Second, introduction of chemicals through leeching, just like BPA's, can be a factor from the environment and also the material itself. Third, the package itself and what seals it. This one is probably going to be the biggest factor when dealing with water, especially if it's been distilled, RO filtered, or is aseptic. If all of the seals are good and you have that freshness seal when you open it, chances are you're good if the other two factors are in line. A seal means nothing if a lot of bacteria was there to begin with, mixed with non-optimal temps could result in a lot of growth even if the seal is perfect.

So, my solution to this all. Keep a sealed, new, filtration system for your water only to be used post-SHTF that can remove chemicals from the water. Filter what you drink or eat from, don't worry about washing or bathing water as long as you're using soap. As I said, I'm no expert on the plastics and what type or amount of degradation happens over time, but I do produce somewhere around 1,000,000 lbs worth of product to be bottled per night at my job.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:33 pm 
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crypto wrote:
What bacterial or viral strains are going to survive in a sealed bottle of commercially clean water over the long haul? What would they feed on?

I wouldn't bottle my own water for long-term storage without maintenance, but I wouldn't hesitate to drink a sealed decade old bottle if I found it.


Do you think it's safe to assume that in general terms, commercially bottled products are safe? If not, what criteria do you use to determine whether a given can of soda or soup is full of bacteria?
I'm not really concerned about PET leeching into water.


Dragon80 wrote:
Leeching isn't something you would always taste. I'm no expert on plastics but I am a bit of a subject matter expert on bottling and it's something I wouldn't consider for a long-term solution. Granted, we all want to buy once, cry once, and have the items ready when SHTF but this is a world of temporary, ready made things and they should be treated as such. Cycle them out, it's not worth the risk, especially when your health may be the only thing you have left to save your own life. I wish I could bring samples into our lab for analysis and culturing but unfortunately, it's a sealed environment and that's a big no no, otherwise I could test these very things.

So, some outside factors to mull over when making your decision. Firstly, the dates mean nothing if the process isn't at the highest quality possible. Introduction of bacteria or other baddies in the packaging/bottling facility are almost always going to happen. The trick is introducing the least amount possible. Every material type has its downfalls and will fail at a different point, knowing those points is the difficult part but some science has been released to the general public, ie BPA's. Second, introduction of chemicals through leeching, just like BPA's, can be a factor from the environment and also the material itself. Third, the package itself and what seals it. This one is probably going to be the biggest factor when dealing with water, especially if it's been distilled, RO filtered, or is aseptic. If all of the seals are good and you have that freshness seal when you open it, chances are you're good if the other two factors are in line. A seal means nothing if a lot of bacteria was there to begin with, mixed with non-optimal temps could result in a lot of growth even if the seal is perfect.

So, my solution to this all. Keep a sealed, new, filtration system for your water only to be used post-SHTF that can remove chemicals from the water. Filter what you drink or eat from, don't worry about washing or bathing water as long as you're using soap. As I said, I'm no expert on the plastics and what type or amount of degradation happens over time, but I do produce somewhere around 1,000,000 lbs worth of product to be bottled per night at my job.



I won't lie, I hardly know anything about that aspect, I don't work in the lab. However I know one of the more common problems if not THE most common is mold growth in the lid area. That I have spoken to our techs about so I know that's a true issue with all bottling. The problem is very complex, it's about the entire process not just about the potentials. If the process is lax, there's room for problems to be introduced and if the process is VERY strict, there is still a problem, just less of it. For example, pasteurizing milk only gets us the couple of weeks shelf life due to the amount of growth that will occur in that period of time causing the milk to become unsafe as where an aseptic process can lengthen that to months. The process can never eliminate 100% of everything but the more it eliminates, the longer the shelf life. So, the potential is always there no matter what steps are taken, but any flaws or lacking areas in the process can result in much quicker decline in quality. I was using bacteria as a generic term before, apparently there's more than just bacteria there.

The process is insanely difficult to perfect and very difficult to keep sterile while producing. Other than the obvious things you would think of, the bottle and caps/lids or these pouches and the sealing process will be the real problems. You could have one small lapse in judgment when someone is cleaning a sealer or the bin the caps are in before they're put on the bottle and you could find yourself with a very serious amount of growth that could affect tens of thousands of bottles in a very short period of time. Now, factor in that there are many touch points in the process where the bottles can come into contact with contaminated surfaces and you're increasing those risks by a lot. We drink and eat bacteria everyday, we breathe mold spores in the air, and that's normally okay but when they have time to culture (ie molded bread), it's the amount that can cause us harm. I've personally taken a drink from a 1 gallon water jug that tasted how a fart smells. It was one of two I had kept at room temperature for about 2 weeks to drink from and I either opened and closed it without realizing it then drank from the other, or the seal was compromised.

Ugh, sorry that's a lot about a little, especially considering we ingest this stuff every day and there's very little we can do about it due to nature. However, eliminating risk where and when we can is important and I think we should try, even if we have to rotate more often and spend a little more money. It's better I take precautions now, rather than get sick later, afterall isn't this the mindset we're following anyway?

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