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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:22 pm 
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I live in the middle of a major urban area and have two adult, indoor-only cats but no car. We have a plan and BOBs packed if we ever need to evacuate, but every pet evacuation plan I've seen either assumes that people have access to a car or that they would set their cats loose (not an option!). If we had to evacuate, it would be on foot, but it would be extremely difficult to carry our two 18 lb. cats in their carriers along with our BOBs. We also live in a small high-rise apartment, so there is nowhere to store bicycles if we had them.

Does anyone have suggestions for how someone could bug out with cats WITHOUT using a car?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:42 pm 
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I was once asked to drop by a friend's house a couple of times a day to feed their cats while they were away on vacation. Half way through, one morning I showed up to discover that their ground floor flat had been broken into, window broken, both the front and back door broken open and left ajar. I went in to find both their cats comfortably sleeping off their morning meal of two pigeons, evidenced only by the wings, beaks and talons remaining.

These were very old, overweight, declawed cats that had never been outside in their lives. Yet their hunting instincts were present enough that they were perfectly capable of catching a meal, even though they were not desperate. Your cats very likely could survive on their own, if there was no other option.

Alternatively, leave the tap open slightly, fill the bathtub with water, tear open a 'large' bag or two of catfood and leave the apartment door open. Let them do their business down the hall. They'll likely still be there and be fine a few weeks later if you are coming back.

If you are not coming back, taking your cats with you likely is not going to make much of a difference in their lives. If the situation is so dire that returning is impossible, your cats will just as likely wind up someone's dinner.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:39 pm 
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you could try a folding 2 wheeled cart to transport them. bungee the carriers, cat supplies to it, and go.

something like this
http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/H-1 ... lsrc=aw.ds

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:51 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:36 pm 
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I wrote this thread with the aftermath of Katrina in mind. I am owned by several cats and other critters. I even have a couple of office cats and provide for a colony of feral cats that live in one of my warehouses to control rats. so your question hit home with me.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24096

This thread has several suggestions that I use for myself. However in all but extreme cases this thread assumes the ability to use vehicle.

I will share some suggestions that I have come up with wrestling with this same problem. First of all let me set some expectations. If you are bugging out on foot you should assume this extreme risky even for healthy adults in shap e and used to traveling on foot. A person really cannot carry enough food and water for more than a few days. So bugging out on foot should be a last resort or to avoid a localized situation. For instance the flood waters from Katrina is exactly a situation where if you traveled for 5 miles you could easily find safe high ground.

So that brings me to the first suggestion determine if the a bug out in foot is feasible alone or do you need special equipment like for instance a boat.

Assuming you can walk out you should consider a bicycle for you and your SO. This makes senses even without the cats if the only way out is on foot. even if you cannot ride it but have to push it, the bicycle will carry a lot more weight than either of your can on your back.with a bicycle you could strap a cat carrier to the front or back of each bike as necessary.

Image

Image

The other alternative and I like this idea since it will also work if the bike breaks down. Get a bike trailer. They make them for kids and again you could carry both cats in the carriers inside of it while riding the bike. If the bike breaks down you could walk with it.

Image


You could also get a back pack carriers.

Image


There are several things to consider with cat evacuations and I am assuming TEOTWAWKI is not the reason for an evacuation, but rather a localized event like say Katrina or Sandy.

1.) Make sure your pets are chipped. They are not a panacea but they do work. I have seen them in action and they do allow you to be reunited with your pet.
2.) If you are bugging out be sure to have a collar and an ID tag on your pet in case they get out.
3.) Consider making the cats wear a walking harness with a lease. Not to walk them but rather these are much more secure and can keep the the cat from bolting in fear.
4.) Many hotels, shelters and even rescue groups are not pet friendly. In the aftermath of Katrina many pets were liquidated by the authorities when they became inconvenient. DO NOT turn yo pets over any governmental, animal welfare or other agency if you want your pet back alive. PETA routinely liquidates pets, after Katrina ,FEMA vets liquidated pets, the ST Bernard sheriff's office shot dogs and cats and so on.
5.) Be sure the pets are up to date on vaccines and have the paperwork to prove it if you bug out.
No proof gives the authorities the opportunity to seize (& destroy) the pet for health reasons.
6.) You should also have food and water bowls for the cats. If you are walking out you may want to carry only dry food for weight savings. For that matter the you and the cats can go for several days with out food (not water obviously) so if you are overloaded you may be able to ditch the food but do not ever discard water.


Finally as I stated in my thread.... if I go my pets come with me. If they cannot go, I am not going.

Good luck with your planning, Hopefully it will remain just that a plan that is never used.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:07 pm 
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do you shop?

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Brompton folding bikes are seen in major urban areas all over the world, take little space and offer - well, a bicycle to carry the load.

other shopping equipment. http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hEhpu7oXOm0/maxresdefault.jpg

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:10 pm 
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They make leashes for cats. Get them used to the idea beforehand, because they're going to need to do their business outside the carrier.

Never abandon your cats. That's the first rule in a survival scenario: no good will come to a man who abandons a cat.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:25 pm 
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Thank you guys for your suggestions! If you have any others, please keep sharing!

raptor wrote:
I wrote this thread with the aftermath of Katrina in mind. I am owned by several cats and other critters. I even have a couple of office cats and provide for a colony of feral cats that live in one of my warehouses to control rats. so your question hit home with me.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24096

This thread has several suggestions that I use for myself. However in all but extreme cases this thread assumes the ability to use vehicle.


I did read through that thread before I posted, and as I said, the problem was that most of the suggestions assumed a car was available. I liked a lot of the planning ideas there, though!

raptor wrote:
I will share some suggestions that I have come up with wrestling with this same problem. First of all let me set some expectations. If you are bugging out on foot you should assume this extreme risky even for healthy adults in shap e and used to traveling on foot. A person really cannot carry enough food and water for more than a few days. So bugging out on foot should be a last resort or to avoid a localized situation. For instance the flood waters from Katrina is exactly a situation where if you traveled for 5 miles you could easily find safe high ground.

So that brings me to the first suggestion determine if the a bug out in foot is feasible alone or do you need special equipment like for instance a boat.

Assuming you can walk out you should consider a bicycle for you and your SO. This makes senses even without the cats if the only way out is on foot. even if you cannot ride it but have to push it, the bicycle will carry a lot more weight than either of your can on your back.with a bicycle you could strap a cat carrier to the front or back of each bike as necessary.

There are several things to consider with cat evacuations and I am assuming TEOTWAWKI is not the reason for an evacuation, but rather a localized event like say Katrina or Sandy.

1.) Make sure your pets are chipped. They are not a panacea but they do work. I have seen them in action and they do allow you to be reunited with your pet.
2.) If you are bugging out be sure to have a collar and an ID tag on your pet in case they get out.
3.) Consider making the cats wear a walking harness with a lease. Not to walk them but rather these are much more secure and can keep the the cat from bolting in fear.
4.) Many hotels, shelters and even rescue groups are not pet friendly. In the aftermath of Katrina many pets were liquidated by the authorities when they became inconvenient. DO NOT turn yo pets over any governmental, animal welfare or other agency if you want your pet back alive. PETA routinely liquidates pets, after Katrina ,FEMA vets liquidated pets, the ST Bernard sheriff's office shot dogs and cats and so on.
5.) Be sure the pets are up to date on vaccines and have the paperwork to prove it if you bug out.
No proof gives the authorities the opportunity to seize (& destroy) the pet for health reasons.
6.) You should also have food and water bowls for the cats. If you are walking out you may want to carry only dry food for weight savings. For that matter the you and the cats can go for several days with out food (not water obviously) so if you are overloaded you may be able to ditch the food but do not ever discard water.


Finally as I stated in my thread.... if I go my pets come with me. If they cannot go, I am not going.

Good luck with your planning, Hopefully it will remain just that a plan that is never used.


Thanks, and I too hope we'll never have to use it! Better to have a plan and never need it than to not have a plan if a situation does arise. I'm like you--if my cats can't go, neither will I. Their wellbeing is my responsibility and I wouldn't leave them behind for anything. Thus planning for how to get out of a danger zone if we can't take them with on official evacuation transports (as happened in Katrina). We already have supplies for them in the BOBs, the only quandry has been how to transport the fuzzbabies themselves. The bike trailer looks like a really good idea, even without bikes.

As for walking out being the bug out option (if we don't have sufficient warning to arrange transport), we have kept difficulty and fitness in mind as much as possible. If we ever do need to do it, the plan is for us to get out of the danger zone and to a rendevous point where family would be able to pick us up safely. Again, better to have a plan you never need than no plan when you need it!


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:29 pm 
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TheZone wrote:
They make leashes for cats. Get them used to the idea beforehand, because they're going to need to do their business outside the carrier.

Never abandon your cats. That's the first rule in a survival scenario: no good will come to a man who abandons a cat.


My furballs like their leashes, but trying to take them for a walk when they don't feel like it is more like taking them for a drag. If the cat's not in the mood to walk, they aren't going to.

And I totally agree to never abandon your cats! I'd go crazy with worry. Fire department forced me to leave one behind for a fire alarm in the building once and nearly had to go to the hospital for the panic attack that ensued worrying about him. Never again!


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:05 pm 
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These carries are designed to roll just like luggage:

http://www.petsmart.com/gsi/webstore/WFS/PETNA-PETUS-Site/en_US/-/USD/ViewProduct-Start?SKU=36-7458&utm_campaign=7458&utm_source=googleproduct&mr:referralID=c774e9ea-caa6-11e4-8635-001b2166becc&gclid=CNz4sMaHqcQCFQmpaQodApoA_g

Edit to add: Pretty sure it's the back pack carrier Raptor posted a picture of.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:14 pm 
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Maybe I'm just a dick but I'd probably just leave my cat behind. She's a sassy, independent lady and we took her in as a stray anyway so she'd make it. My pup on the other hand is a huge wuss we'd need to take her, she couldn't make it a day alone. The logistics of having a pet in that situation aren't looking good, either.

Wish I had something more to contribute, just what I'd likely do.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:09 am 
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azrancher wrote:
Herding cats, you know that's hard to do...

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hire these guys:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk7yqlTMvp8


we have 1 small dog, and 1 cat. as suggested by others, they are chipped, both have harnesses. If the vehicle breaks down, we have one of those fold up handtrucks that the carriers can be strapped to. If you are rolling though urban area, the wheels should be OK (as long as not overloaded) for offroad, I am going to look at Tractor Supply or Grainger for some pneumatic wheels to roll easier

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:14 pm 
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Let me start off with I like cats. I have one.

But as for your plan. Lets ask a few questions first.
Why are you bugging out?
Fire? Of course bug out. But at that point why are you forced to walk far? Public transportation should still be available.
Power outage? It better be city wide and lasting more than a few days. Public transportation is still available.
Civil unrest? Your safer bugging in your apartment.
Zombie outbreak? Zombies are walking about and your worried about dragging z-bait around behind you?


Get a folding game cart and stick it in the closet.

Being located inside an urban metropolis is the most dangerous place to be if you are ever forced to walk out of it. Whatever reason forces you to walk 10 plus miles to reach the outside of the metropolis will also force a LOT of other people to do the very same thing.
A very dangerous situation. With a LOT of worried desperate people around you who might just turn very dangerous if they think you have the last meal in 100 miles.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 5:18 pm 
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I don't even feed my farm cats except on Sunday. Then they get all the goat milk they can drink and all the dry food they can eat. Usually, they turn their noses up to the dry food because the stocky little badasses have a full stomach already.

They both tried to kill me last time I put them in the truck for a trip to the vet. Now I vaccinate them and doctor as needed.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:32 am 
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Raptor nailed my suggestions. The only thing I'd add is, if you're planning on using cat carriers, do upper body strength work in preparation for this.

I can carry my four cats using a combination of that backpack carrier Raptor pictured (which works beautifully, and rolls), a plastic cat carrier, and a plastic dog carrier which holds two cats. But let me tell you, it is shocking how much furballs + carriers adds up to. Mine = 41 lbs of cats + maybe 8 lbs of carriers. And this isn't like hiking with a 50 lb pack. The carriers bump against your legs when you walk, and so you end up doing a continual small side lift to keep them out of your way. It's do-able, but man, it is a workout.

So if you do decide that carriers are in your (emergency) future, adjust your exercise routine a bit and work on those arms. Load the kittens up and take them someplace, to give you an idea of what this will be like.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:40 am 
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Oh, and speaking from experience, those backpack carriers are extremely comfortable. I could hike all day with a cat in one, easily, and the cats like them just fine. Mine doubles as a cat bed in non-transport situations. They also have wheels so that you can take a break from carrying if the terrain permits. The only problem is that they're small. (That is a MICRO dog in that picture...) In an emergency, I might be able to stuff two 7-lb cats in there... maybe. I'm not sure my 16 pounder would fit at all. There may be larger versions available, however, if you could find some way to merge it with your BOB. (I'm planning on using husband as a pack mule in an emergency. Cats for me, stuff for him.)


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:34 pm 
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If you think outside the box a little, you may discover that you DO have room in your apartment for regular bikes. A fellow I knew bought porch-swing hangers, dog chain, and some large S-hooks so he could hang his bike from the ceiling in the utility closet. Another decided to repurpose some guitar wall hangers he got from dumpster diving and now he hangs his bike on the wall (after removing the front wheel) over his couch.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:02 pm 
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Quote:
Suggestions for evacuating with cats?


leave them. :rofl:

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:29 pm 
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It's been (rightfully) suggested to me that my previous post was not particularly helpful.

Anyone in OP's position is in a tough spot. Urban environment, high-rise apartment, strictly indoor-only animals and no car or even room for bicycles. The "we" in OP's post suggests a roommate, partner, family member. As heartless as this sounds, your responsibility to the safety of that other person has to take precedence over your sense of accountability to your pets. You can't allow their needs to jeopardize your own ability to successfully and safely bug out if the need should ever arise.

Short of rethinking your preps towards a bug-in scenario, maybe consider one of those jogging baby strollers; the kind with true bicycle style wheels. They make carrying relatively bulky items (like pet carriers) much more doable than bearing the weight on your own two feet. The one I had when my daughter was young wasn't a particularly high end model (or brand), but it had a ridiculously low rolling resistance and was supremely maneuverable in urban terrain (curbs and stairs were absolutely no problem). And after removal of its quick-release wheels, it collapsed into about the size of a folded lawn chair.

Actually, regardless of whether or not you have pets (or an infant), a jogging stroller makes a lot of sense in a bug out scenario in an urban environment.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:27 pm 
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Get you some slave dogs and put them to work pulling their feline overlords around in a chuck wagon. There is a cat in there I shit you not.

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Or one big dog

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Or if you are man enough:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7xf9dpSURs

Although I am guessing:

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/com ... 0112073623

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:55 pm 
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Be careful about making jokes guys, Big Brother doesn't have a sense of humor.

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Also whichever cat carrier you decide when you get it leave it in your apartment with door open where your cats like to hang out. This will allow them to investigate the new carrier and allows them to enter and exit the carrier on their own. So when a time does arise where you have to leave with your cats they are already familiar with the carriers and will cooperate more.

Also like someone else suggested if you do the backpack or pulling it in some sort of cart or stroller take the cats with you not just for your practice but so your cats can get used to it too. If they are used it to they will stay quiet. If they are not they can and probably will get very noisy which would not be good in a situation where you might be afraid someone will take your cats from you for an emergency food supply. They will be easier to hide in a cart surrounded by your other supplies if they are quiet.

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Cats are in my paws.
Cats are smart
either practice walking with them
or practice traveling in a back pack
or a front child carrier
I would treat them as a small child
and
with practice they would be the the purrrrfect
companion in the post ap.....
Friend, snuggle buddy and would be perfect for the post rodent zombie ap.....
people most not
dogs well no ever one
cats got my heart and soul

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