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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:24 pm 
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I'm looking for water containers or a container to set up in my garage. Where is the best place to buy stuff like that? I thought about those big blue 55 gallon food grade barrels. But am concerned about emptying and moving it if I have to. So maybe some cheap jerry cans would be better?

Also can anyone school me on pool shock? Or whatever else I need for storing the water long term?

Any advice?

(Is this the right section to post this in?)

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:30 am 
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They are not cheap, but these are the ones to get. They are much more durable then the Wally world cheap ones. They are drop rated, and will expand contract in freezing temperatures.

http://www.lexingtoncontainercompany.com/Military-Water-Cans.html

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:34 am 
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I have 5 of these guys. Cheap and durable, I believe they're made in Canada. Very nice for the price.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200577244_200577244?cm_mmc=Google-pla-_-Sporting%20Goods%20%2B%20Toys-_-Camping%20%2B%20Hiking%20Equipment-_-20335&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=20335&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=20335&gclid=CN-gyOfgl78CFQwDaQod6mkARg

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:51 pm 
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Tobias05 wrote:


These are also made from same manufacturer I was recommending (Scepter in Canada). The only differences are:

Mil-spec $$$ Nato screw caps openings
Civilian $$ regular screw cap openings

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:06 pm 
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Black November wrote:
They are not cheap, but these are the ones to get. They are much more durable then the Wally world cheap ones. They are drop rated, and will expand contract in freezing temperatures.

http://www.lexingtoncontainercompany.com/Military-Water-Cans.html


Everyone should look at that website. Some great prices on all sorts of containers up to 55 gallon drums.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:51 pm 
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I bought a pile of Scepter MWC's several years ago, and can't recommend them enough.

6x 5gal and 2x 2.5gal work out nicely. Half green, half tan. Might get some blue now that I see it, and maybe a black for hot water...

These fit into the spars of a DEI 1606 ruck frame, too.

Warning: pouring a 5gal water can is no joke. My wife can not. At all.

Which is why I thought ahead and got 2 of the smaller cans!

They also fit right on the counter next to the sink. Use 2 smalls, then fill them back up with a large.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:35 pm 
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What about bleaching the water for storage? What is the formula?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:45 pm 
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moab wrote:
What about bleaching the water for storage? What is the formula?

http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/pdf/emergency/09_202278-B_Make_Water_Safe_Flyer_508.pdf

Eighth-teaspoon, eight drops, or .75 milliliters unscented household [not industrial] bleach per gallon. Double the dose for cloudy water. Most tap water is already mildly chlorinated and should be good to store.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:47 pm 
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City water is fine. I broke out several-year-old tap water at the beginning of summer and drank it. Plenty of chlorine from the factory :awesome:

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:54 pm 
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Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
moab wrote:
What about bleaching the water for storage? What is the formula?

http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/pdf/emergency/09_202278-B_Make_Water_Safe_Flyer_508.pdf

Eighth-teaspoon, eight drops, or seventy-five milliliters unscented household [not industrial] bleach per gallon. Double the dose for cloudy water. Most tap water is already mildly chlorinated and should be good to store.


Thanks Doc. Any advice on how much to store per person per say week or month? Trying to decide how many containers to get. I'm not planning on bugging in that long. I live in LA. Maybe a month at the most. I was thinking one or two of those 55 gallon drums. I have four people in the house.

Patrick

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:25 pm 
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Here's what we did, and what I'd recommend doing.

1) Have a certain amount of WaterBricks. They're 3.5gal each, have a handle, and interlock to stack. They're quite expensive per gallon stored. The upside is that they're easily man-portable, even up or down stairs by people who might be injured or otherwise unhealthy (which is quite possible in a disaster). Also small and easy enough to carry to be moved into a car if you finally decide to evac. They're also EXTREMELY EASY to hide around the place so that it doesn't look like you're a prepper. Finally, their smaller size means that if you need some water but you don't expect to be out of water for a LONG time you're not cracking open 55gal of it at a time (which you then have to figure out how to re-treat to "put it back" into long term storage).

2) Have the bulk of your water storage in 55gal food grade plastic containers. If you work to find a deal, this is the best cost-per-gallon available. I got a bunch here for $10/ea. It's hard to beat 18 cents a gallon! They are basically immobile once full. However, I easily made round barrel dollies using 2 layers of 3/4" CDX plywood and 6 casters from the big box store. If you use the 2" cast iron casters every big box store sells, 6 of them are just barely enough to meet the required loading and it's a real bear to move the drum (though you can do it by yourself). If you use the 3" casters which only cost a little more, you have a safety margin on the loading and it's a LOT easier to move the barrel around.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:49 pm 
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williaty wrote:
Here's what we did, and what I'd recommend doing.

1) Have a certain amount of WaterBricks. They're 3.5gal each, have a handle, and interlock to stack. They're quite expensive per gallon stored. The upside is that they're easily man-portable, even up or down stairs by people who might be injured or otherwise unhealthy (which is quite possible in a disaster). Also small and easy enough to carry to be moved into a car if you finally decide to evac. They're also EXTREMELY EASY to hide around the place so that it doesn't look like you're a prepper. Finally, their smaller size means that if you need some water but you don't expect to be out of water for a LONG time you're not cracking open 55gal of it at a time (which you then have to figure out how to re-treat to "put it back" into long term storage).

2) Have the bulk of your water storage in 55gal food grade plastic containers. If you work to find a deal, this is the best cost-per-gallon available. I got a bunch here for $10/ea. It's hard to beat 18 cents a gallon! They are basically immobile once full. However, I easily made round barrel dollies using 2 layers of 3/4" CDX plywood and 6 casters from the big box store. If you use the 2" cast iron casters every big box store sells, 6 of them are just barely enough to meet the required loading and it's a real bear to move the drum (though you can do it by yourself). If you use the 3" casters which only cost a little more, you have a safety margin on the loading and it's a LOT easier to move the barrel around.


Would a furniture dolly work?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:14 pm 
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moab wrote:
Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
moab wrote:
What about bleaching the water for storage? What is the formula?

http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/pdf/emergency/09_202278-B_Make_Water_Safe_Flyer_508.pdf

Eighth-teaspoon, eight drops, or seventy-five milliliters unscented household [not industrial] bleach per gallon. Double the dose for cloudy water. Most tap water is already mildly chlorinated and should be good to store.


Thanks Doc. Any advice on how much to store per person per say week or month? Trying to decide how many containers to get. I'm not planning on bugging in that long. I live in LA. Maybe a month at the most. I was thinking one or two of those 55 gallon drums. I have four people in the house.

Patrick


Lotta folks throw around 1 gallon per person per day. OTOH, your family probably burns about 400 gallons per day. Toilets are the biggest "loser" so to speak, followed by showers, clothes washers, and dishwashers. If you can mitigate those big consumers, you can cut your usage down a fair bit. Bucket laundry, hand-wash dishes (and reuse the water as much as possible) and minimize wastewater, and you could cut it down to under 50gal/day for a family of four, but it's third-world hygiene at that point.

I used less than 1CCF per month for the past several months, averaging at least one shower per day, dishes weekly (no throw-away crap either) and biweekly laundry. In emergency mode, I could likely cut that roughly in half, but I'd also not be using the work toilets, and likely drinking more water, so I plan for an average of 6-8l per person per day, minimum. Currently working on getting 10 days' worth together to cover parents, siblings, in-laws, and cats, as well as 1000gal worth of Polar Pure if we have to dip into the creeks/ponds. I use well-cleaned 2l bottles right now, but an agricultural unit is probably in the future. If you have good sun exposure (which I do) even moderately cool weatehr can allow a good solar shower to get nice and toasty.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:16 pm 
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moab wrote:
Would a furniture dolly work?

There's probably some that would. The full barrel will weigh 458 lbs, so I'd want a dolly rated for twice that to account for the huge spike in forces when you roll over a crack or a pebble. Then you also have the issue of whether or not the dolly will retain the barrel (in other words, will you just shove it off the dolly by accident. Finally, the wheels need to be close enough to the edge to prevent tipping when you're trying to move the barrel around while you're pushing it at the top.

If you can find a furniture dolly that meets those requirements for less than the $45 it takes to build a barrel-specific one for yourself, then go for it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:32 am 
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Doctorr Fabulous wrote:
Eighth-teaspoon, eight drops, or seventy-five milliliters unscented household [not industrial] bleach per gallon. Double the dose for cloudy water.


Just being picky but you missed a decimal point.
75 mL is around 5 tablespoons. Think you mean 0.75 mL.
:D

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:47 am 
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'Preciate it. Some of the keys on my secondhand laptop are intermittent, others cut out completely (like the entire top row) so I've been getting soem annoying typos when I'm not at my work or gaming PC. Edited to reflect missing decimal.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:14 am 
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I have found success contacting a local state university. Called up the ecology dept and they use food grade 55 gal barrels for numerous things. I have bought 6 for $15 a piece. Locks/lids/caps all in great condition. Might want to give that a try if youre close enough to a large college/university.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:20 am 
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along with the 55gal drums I would suggest tapping the bottom of them. You can keep them in the garage, elevated up a bit so you can fit the 5gal Jerry cans under it makes for easy refilling. My dad had the blue 55gal drums for irrigation during a drought we had about 15 years ago and they still hold water with no leaks.

Water bricks are nice, but damn expensive. I'd stick with the Jerry Cans. If you are looking at 55gal drums I might suggest that you get maybe a half dozen of the 2.5gal/10L NATO Jerry Cans. You can fill them with your 55gal drums either by pump or by the spigot like I suggested. Nice thing about the spigot as well. If you have a bilge pump you can wire it up to a battery and run a food grade hose to the house and have easy filling from the house. I did this during the drought for my parents to fill the toilet. Cut a small hole in the screen fed the hose though to the toilet reservoir and flip the switch and you've got yourself a flushing toilet. We actually ran this system for about 3 years because it saved water so well. The batteries I used were 2 motorcycle deep cell we had laying around. Could easily run the bilge for about 5 months with no charge.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:49 pm 
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Thanks for these recommendations, folks! I've just ordered some more water storage.

The blue civilian Scepter containers mentioned above can be had for $11.99 on the Pep Boys' Ebay store:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Scepter-5-Gallo ... 8d&vxp=mtr
Shipping is $5, but they give free shipping over $25, so just order 3 - it'll be cheaper than 2 from just about anywhere else.

For the military versions, Lexington Container does seem like the best deal around, thanks to the option of free shipping.
http://www.lexingtoncontainercompany.co ... -Cans.html
Everybody else I could find seems to be about $10 higher after shipping.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:35 am 
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Just a few thoughts on the subject.

I recently set up a google doc to look at different water storage options and some of that data that goes with them. I'll throw some of that info here for you. Keep in mind, I did not shop around for prices. I mostly just looked on amazon (which tends to be very low, but isn't always the absolute lowest). I did look at a few different sites for reviews on some of these products.

Reliance Aqua-Pack
Stackable
5 gallons
water weight when full: 40lbs
$25 unit cost. $5 per gallon.

Reliance Aqua-Tainer
Stackable empty only
7 gallons
water weight when full: 56lbs
$18 unit cost. $2.5 per gallon.

Reliance Rhino Pak (jerry can style)
Stackable (sideways)
5.5 gallons
Water weight when full: 44lbs
$20 unit cost. 3.63 per gallon.

WaterBrick (smaller size)
Stackable
3.5 gallons (1.6 gallons)
Water weight when full: 28 lbs (12.8)
$21 unit cost. $6 per gallon ($12.5)

Augason Farms Emergency Water Storage
Comes with 6' hose, hand pump, aquamira treatment drops (~60 gallons), opening tool
55 gallons
Water weight when full: 440lbs
$116 unit cost. $2.1 per gallon.

Shelf Reliance Delux Water Storage
Comes with hand pump, opening tool, filter good for 200 gallons
55 gallons
Water weight when full: 440lbs
$150 unit cost. $2.72 per gallon.

Surewater 260
7 sqft storage. Fits in 29" doorways.
260 gallons
Water weight when full: 2080lbs
$729 unit cost. $2.8 per gallon.

WaterBoB
Short term water solution. Single use. Good for emergencies when you have advanced notice. Basically, you place this in your tub and you can fill your tub with water and pump it out (with the included pump).
100 gallon capacity (based on reviews people rarely get this much out of it, it's limited by the size of your tub and the rigidity that your tub offers the plastic membrane of this bag.
Water weight when full: 800lbs (not likely to get full. not remotely portable when full, about the size of a lunch box when empty)
$19 unit cost. $0.19 per gallon (assuming 100 gallons, which most reviewers are not able to manage)

Just a note:
Reviews of short term water carriers that are basically folding accordion style plastic are almost all universally low at all websites. Basically, they may work OK the first time you use them (maybe). But, the flexing of the plastic makes them prone to leaks.

Garden hoses can NOT be used to fill potable water storage options. This cannot be stressed enough. You need to use food grade hoses (available all over the place, but not in the garden section).

I believe (please correct me if I'm wrong) if you have water purification options (bleach, aqua mira, water filters, or even boiling) you can store water in a food grade plastic container for pretty much as long as you want, then use your purification method of choice and the water is good to go. This means, you can store 55 gallon drums of water for a decade, then filter that water as you go. The general rule seems to be that after roughly 7 years the stored water starts to become pretty questionable (I see some sources say water has a 6 month shelf life, I have also articles quoting "experts" saying water can basically last indefinitely if stored properly). This will have to do with factors such as: if chemicals were able to leech through your barrel (many people say not to store water in a container directly on concrete, I haven't looked up the validity of this myself), if the water you put in was clean, if the water was stored in an airtight container, if the water was stored out of direct sunlight, if the water container has an opacity to reduce the light levels getting through, if the clean water you used to put in the container was not contaminated by anything in transit (like a garden hose).

I recently picked up a pair of 7 gallon Reliance Aqua-Tainer Rigid Water Containers. I like that they are a 7 gallon container rather than 5. I like this specifically because everybody swears by the idea that people use 1 gallon of water per person per day. This means one of these containers is water for 1 person for 1 week. That seems tidy to me! The 1 gallon number takes food and cleaning into account, and it's just a benchmark. If you're in Arizona in the summer and you're doing a lot of physical work your water per person per day number may be higher. These containers are also stackable two high with grooves on the bottom to match what's going on up top.

Store the water in a decent micro climate within your home if you can. If your garage isn't insulated and it gets over 100 degrees in the summers and freezes in the winter, that may not be the best place for you to store emergency water. Some people store in containers under a bed. I will be storing some water in a closet with no walls shared with the outside of the home.


Last edited by zero11010 on Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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zero11010 wrote:
Just a few thoughts on the subject.

I recently set up a google doc to look at different water storage options and some of that data that goes with them. I'll throw some of that info here for you. Keep in mind, I did not shop around for prices. I mostly just looked on amazon (which tends to be very low, but isn't always the absolute lowest). I did look at a few different sites for reviews on some of these products.

Reliance Aqua-Pack
Stackable
5 gallons
water weight when full: 40lbs
$25 unit cost. $5 per gallon.

Reliance Aqua-Tainer
Stackable
7 gallons
water weight when full: 56lbs
$18 unit cost. $2.5 per gallon.

Reliance Rhino Pak (jerry can style)
Stackable (sideways)
5.5 gallons
Water weight when full: 44lbs
$20 unit cost. 3.63 per gallon.

WaterBrick (smaller size)
Stackable
3.5 gallons (1.6 gallons)
Water weight when full: 28 lbs (12.8)
$21 unit cost. $6 per gallon ($12.5)

Augason Farms Emergency Water Storage
Comes with 6' hose, hand pump, aquamira treatment drops (~60 gallons), opening tool
55 gallons
Water weight when full: 440lbs
$116 unit cost. $2.1 per gallon.

Shelf Reliance Delux Water Storage
Comes with hand pump, opening tool, filter good for 200 gallons
55 gallons
Water weight when full: 440lbs
$150 unit cost. $2.72 per gallon.

Surewater 260
7 sqft storage. Fits in 29" doorways.
260 gallons
Water weight when full: 2080lbs
$729 unit cost. $2.8 per gallon.

WaterBoB
Short term water solution. Single use. Good for emergencies when you have advanced notice. Basically, you place this in your tub and you can fill your tub with water and pump it out (with the included pump).
100 gallon capacity (based on reviews people rarely get this much out of it, it's limited by the size of your tub and the rigidity that your tub offers the plastic membrane of this bag.
Water weight when full: 800lbs (not likely to get full. not remotely portable when full, about the size of a lunch box when empty)
$19 unit cost. $0.19 per gallon (assuming 100 gallons, which most reviewers are not able to manage)

Just a note:
Reviews of short term water carriers that are basically folding accordion style plastic are almost all universally low at all websites. Basically, they may work OK the first time you use them (maybe). But, the flexing of the plastic makes them prone to leaks.

Garden hoses can NOT be used to fill potable water storage options. This cannot be stressed enough. You need to use food grade hoses (available all over the place, but not in the garden section).

I believe (please correct me if I'm wrong) if you have water purification options (bleach, aqua mira, water filters, or even boiling) you can store water in a food grade plastic container for pretty much as long as you want, then use your purification method of choice and the water is good to go. This means, you can store 55 gallon drums of water for a decade, then filter that water as you go. The general rule seems to be that after roughly 7 years the stored water starts to become pretty questionable (I see some sources say water has a 6 month shelf life, I have also articles quoting "experts" saying water can basically last indefinitely if stored properly). This will have to do with factors such as: if chemicals were able to leech through your barrel (many people say not to store water in a container directly on concrete, I haven't looked up the validity of this myself), if the water you put in was clean, if the water was stored in an airtight container, if the water was stored out of direct sunlight, if the water container has an opacity to reduce the light levels getting through, if the clean water you used to put in the container was not contaminated by anything in transit (like a garden hose).

I recently picked up a pair of 7 gallon Reliance Aqua-Tainer Rigid Water Containers. I like that they are a 7 gallon container rather than 5. I like this specifically because everybody swears by the idea that people use 1 gallon of water per person per day. This means one of these containers is water for 1 person for 1 week. That seems tidy to me! The 1 gallon number takes food and cleaning into account, and it's just a benchmark. If you're in Arizona in the summer and you're doing a lot of physical work your water per person per day number may be higher. These containers are also stackable two high with grooves on the bottom to match what's going on up top.

Store the water in a decent micro climate within your home if you can. If your garage isn't insulated and it gets over 100 degrees in the summers and freezes in the winter, that may not be the best place for you to store emergency water. Some people store in containers under a bed. I will be storing some water in a closet with no walls shared with the outside of the home.


Thank you so much for posting this information. I would suggest you make this it's own thread. I was wondering if those Augesen Farms ones were a good deal or not. But then I found the site above http://www.lexingtoncontainercompany.com/index.html But it's such a shitty site you can't figure out where to even find those same barrels for a lot cheaper. And IIRC free shipping on four. You'll have to call them. But they sell the barrels and the pumps for a lot less. Like half IIRC. (That site really is shitty though. Excuse my French. LOL!)

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:19 pm 
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DeadyBear wrote:
Thanks for these recommendations, folks! I've just ordered some more water storage.

The blue civilian Scepter containers mentioned above can be had for $11.99 on the Pep Boys' Ebay store:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Scepter-5-Gallo ... 8d&vxp=mtr
Shipping is $5, but they give free shipping over $25, so just order 3 - it'll be cheaper than 2 from just about anywhere else.

For the military versions, Lexington Container does seem like the best deal around, thanks to the option of free shipping.
http://www.lexingtoncontainercompany.co ... -Cans.html
Everybody else I could find seems to be about $10 higher after shipping.

-- DeadyBear



I've had both Blitz and Scepter civilian water containers and the biggest problem is that the welded seam eventually leaks. Sometimes slowly and sometimes not so slowly and some took more than 5 years to start leaking. I think that any sort of stress or impact would have made them leak sooner. Just buy the military version if you want a really robust 5 or 2.5 gallon container.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:23 pm 
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This great thread also prompted me to look up the issues with ordinary garden hoses:

http://www.healthystuff.org/findings.050713.garden.php

http://ideas.time.com/2012/08/02/is-you ... ose-toxic/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/2 ... 15774.html

http://www.rodalenews.com/drinking-water-garden-hose

http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/inde ... be_to.html

http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/ ... blogs&_r=0

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:33 pm 
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Where did you get the prices, the 7 gallon aquatainers are a lot less that $18.

One thing to do if you do store city water record the date you filled them so when your city sends the equiv of a recall note you can dump and refill those dates. Its happened to us, they have sent a letter stating that between the dates of x and y the water failed some test.

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