The Poor Man’s Prepping

A place to discuss special considerations involved prepping and reacting to a disaster with children, pets and other family concerns.
Ever
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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by Ever » Fri Mar 06, 2020 7:15 am

Your conversation about them has been greatly appreciated because of all the details you've gone into. Giving me good ideas to work with and highlighting a few missteps I would probably have unknowingly made.
Ever, previously known here as 'zombiepreparation'
Member since October 2011


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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by Ever » Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:02 am

I've been up all night going over and over my storage spreadsheets, from every direction I can think of, and I keep coming back to the same numbers:

With what I'm showing it looks like I'm sitting on an easy seven month storage of food and basic necessities. Maybe even inching up to almost eight if COVID holds off for a just three more weeks before it slams my area. Allowing me to keep gathering foodstuffs during that time.

And when I'm gaging from what I'm seeing in PRC, Italy, & S. Korea timelines of disruption I think, 'think', it's going to be possible for me to hold on without too much discomfort until my country is able to get our supply chains up and running again.

A comfortable seven months, with belt tightening to stretch it to eight, right now. With three more weeks gathering time, a comfortable eight months,with belt tightening to nine.

👍 I don't even how I pulled this off with just the time since the middle of January to now and my poverty level finances to work with.

Of course that comfort will get all whacked up if or when I get 🤒😷😥 and/or get that killing pneumonia that's targeting my demographic. 😬 😬 💀

But that's for another minute. Right now I'm going to give myself a few back pats and a few minutes of ahhhhhh.
Ever, previously known here as 'zombiepreparation'
Member since October 2011


Thank you ZombieSquad for everything!

Thank you Members of ZS here & around the globe who helped me/us prepare for surviving the Pandemic of 2020-2021, & stayed to talk as we went thru it.

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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by CrossCut » Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:58 am

Well, regarding disinfecting masks for reuse, there is this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4699414/
A variety of techniques for decontaminating N95 respirators have been tested, including autoclaving, steam generated by heat or microwaves, ethylene oxide, vaporized hydrogen peroxide, and bleach.(6–11) All of these techniques have advantages and disadvantages. Heat and steam can melt or degrade the respirator and require drying the FFR after treatment.(10,12) Chemical disinfectants require rinsing and drying, and can leave an unpleasant odor or a residue that irritates the skin.(12) Gaseous systems using ethylene oxide or vaporized hydrogen peroxide require specialized equipment and ventilation controls.(11) N95 respirators cannot be disinfected with alcohols such as isopropanol because alcohols remove the electrostatic charge from the filtration media and substantially degrade its filtration capacity.(13)

Disposable respirators also can be decontaminated through the use of ultraviolet germicidal irradiation (UVGI). UVGI uses ultraviolet light to inactivate microorganisms, primarily by cross-linking thymidine nucleotides in DNA and uracil nucleotides in RNA, which blocks replication.(14) UVGI systems are relatively quick and easy to use, and do not leave chemical residues or risk exposing workers to toxic chemicals. In the lab, UVGI has been successfully used to decontaminate N95 respirators exposed to the bacteriophage MS2 (15,16) and influenza virus.(6,8)
and
An important consideration for all decontamination methods, including UVGI, is the risk that they will degrade the respirator material, and in particular that they will reduce the ability of the respirator to filter out infectious bioaerosols. This is especially a concern with UVGI, as UV radiation degrades polymers, which are used in the construction of disposable FFRs. Some studies have looked at the effects of UVGI on respirator appearance, fit, airflow resistance, and filtration efficiency after one to three decontamination cycles and have found no significant effects.(7,10,12) However, the effects of extended exposures to UVGI after multiple decontamination cycles are not known, and it is unclear how large a cumulative dose of UVGI respirators can withstand, what damage eventually occurs, or how many times disposable FFRs could potentially be decontaminated and reused.
Science is not my major and any math that can't be done on my fingers and toes gives me a headache, but my SWAG (with the following assumptions) is:

a) One Joule of energy = 1,000 milliWatt seconds = 1,000,000 microWatt seconds

b) My 25 watt UV-C lamp, while drawing 25 watts of power, might only put out 8 watts of UV-C light (google guesstimate). 8 watts = 8,000,000 microWatts. Or 8 Joules for each 1 sec exposure, or 1 Joule every 0.125 seconds.

c) 470 Joules/cm2 is sufficient to inactivate COVID-19 (the 470 J/cm2 taken from the charts as a rough average of the minimum and maximums they tested, and based on viruses requiring less exposure to be killed by UV-C than bacteria or spores).

d) "Dosing" a mask with 470 Joules of UV-C light with an 8 watt UV-C source (without any losses from distance between light and mask, which obviously there must be) requires 58.75 seconds of exposure time. 470 Joules / 8 Joules per second = 58.75 seconds of exposure.

e) If I assume only 1/4 of the 8 Joules reaches the mask through a 1 inch (2.5cm) air gap between the lamp and the mask (inverse square law wildass guesstimate), then 4 times longer exposure would be required to reach 470 Joules dose.

So, I think, something like 4 minutes of exposure with the mask 1" from the 25 watt UV-C light - and maybe flip the mask over and repeat on the other side. How many times this can be repeated depends on the mask, the article has a little more info on that. So it might be worth getting a UV-C lamp, saving your used masks and decontaminate them, and only reuse them if you run out of fresh ones. But somebody please double check my assumptions and math while I go get a couple aspirin. :)

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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by MPMalloy » Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:12 pm

CrossCut wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:58 am
Well, regarding disinfecting masks for reuse, there is this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4699414/
A variety of techniques for decontaminating N95 respirators have been tested, including autoclaving, steam generated by heat or microwaves, ethylene oxide, vaporized hydrogen peroxide, and bleach.(6–11) All of these techniques have advantages and disadvantages. Heat and steam can melt or degrade the respirator and require drying the FFR after treatment.(10,12) Chemical disinfectants require rinsing and drying, and can leave an unpleasant odor or a residue that irritates the skin.(12) Gaseous systems using ethylene oxide or vaporized hydrogen peroxide require specialized equipment and ventilation controls.(11) N95 respirators cannot be disinfected with alcohols such as isopropanol because alcohols remove the electrostatic charge from the filtration media and substantially degrade its filtration capacity.(13)

Disposable respirators also can be decontaminated through the use of ultraviolet germicidal irradiation (UVGI). UVGI uses ultraviolet light to inactivate microorganisms, primarily by cross-linking thymidine nucleotides in DNA and uracil nucleotides in RNA, which blocks replication.(14) UVGI systems are relatively quick and easy to use, and do not leave chemical residues or risk exposing workers to toxic chemicals. In the lab, UVGI has been successfully used to decontaminate N95 respirators exposed to the bacteriophage MS2 (15,16) and influenza virus.(6,8)
and
An important consideration for all decontamination methods, including UVGI, is the risk that they will degrade the respirator material, and in particular that they will reduce the ability of the respirator to filter out infectious bioaerosols. This is especially a concern with UVGI, as UV radiation degrades polymers, which are used in the construction of disposable FFRs. Some studies have looked at the effects of UVGI on respirator appearance, fit, airflow resistance, and filtration efficiency after one to three decontamination cycles and have found no significant effects.(7,10,12) However, the effects of extended exposures to UVGI after multiple decontamination cycles are not known, and it is unclear how large a cumulative dose of UVGI respirators can withstand, what damage eventually occurs, or how many times disposable FFRs could potentially be decontaminated and reused.
Science is not my major and any math that can't be done on my fingers and toes gives me a headache, but my SWAG (with the following assumptions) is:

a) One Joule of energy = 1,000 milliWatt seconds = 1,000,000 microWatt seconds

b) My 25 watt UV-C lamp, while drawing 25 watts of power, might only put out 8 watts of UV-C light (google guesstimate). 8 watts = 8,000,000 microWatts. Or 8 Joules for each 1 sec exposure, or 1 Joule every 0.125 seconds.

c) 470 Joules/cm2 is sufficient to inactivate COVID-19 (the 470 J/cm2 taken from the charts as a rough average of the minimum and maximums they tested, and based on viruses requiring less exposure to be killed by UV-C than bacteria or spores).

d) "Dosing" a mask with 470 Joules of UV-C light with an 8 watt UV-C source (without any losses from distance between light and mask, which obviously there must be) requires 58.75 seconds of exposure time. 470 Joules / 8 Joules per second = 58.75 seconds of exposure.

e) If I assume only 1/4 of the 8 Joules reaches the mask through a 1 inch (2.5cm) air gap between the lamp and the mask (inverse square law wildass guesstimate), then 4 times longer exposure would be required to reach 470 Joules dose.

So, I think, something like 4 minutes of exposure with the mask 1" from the 25 watt UV-C light - and maybe flip the mask over and repeat on the other side. How many times this can be repeated depends on the mask, the article has a little more info on that. So it might be worth getting a UV-C lamp, saving your used masks and decontaminate them, and only reuse them if you run out of fresh ones. But somebody please double check my assumptions and math while I go get a couple aspirin. :)
Thank you CC.

I stand by what I said earlier. I don't see decon-ing used masks working out well. Same with improvising filters.

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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by norcalprep » Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:36 pm

flybynight wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:43 pm
Lock the gate and stay home til it's over. Good hygiene and avoidance is the only way. If you have to go out at that point. You've failed in your preps.
I'm not sure that's helpful. There are many things that can go wrong outside of your control. For example, look at the tornadoes in Tennessee recently. If someone from there lost all of their pandemic preps because of the tornadoes, are you going to scold them for not have a secondary or tertiary bug out location all stocked with 6+ months of supplies each?

The fact that everybody here has taken personal responsibility for prepping is a great step. Where they are on their prepping situation, or the means to accumulate supplies in a given time is no reason to dismiss them as failures. Prepping is more than just supplies, but also the community you build and the knowledge you acquire. I'd argue that knowing how to make makeshift but effective masks would be one of those knowledge points. Going out and foraging wild berries have long since been canon in survivalist knowledge, right? Doesn't that require going out? Did those people fail in their preps?

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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by flybynight » Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:36 pm

norcalprep wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:36 pm
flybynight wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:43 pm
Lock the gate and stay home til it's over. Good hygiene and avoidance is the only way. If you have to go out at that point. You've failed in your preps.
I'm not sure that's helpful. There are many things that can go wrong outside of your control. For example, look at the tornadoes in Tennessee recently. If someone from there lost all of their pandemic preps because of the tornadoes, are you going to scold them for not have a secondary or tertiary bug out location all stocked with 6+ months of supplies each?

The fact that everybody here has taken personal responsibility for prepping is a great step. Where they are on their prepping situation, or the means to accumulate supplies in a given time is no reason to dismiss them as failures. Prepping is more than just supplies, but also the community you build and the knowledge you acquire. I'd argue that knowing how to make makeshift but effective masks would be one of those knowledge points. Going out and foraging wild berries have long since been canon in survivalist knowledge, right? Doesn't that require going out? Did those people fail in their preps?
The majority of my preps are at the location I would be during a tornado event ( basement) . Which is also the location of our pantry. One eminent disaster at a time please :crazy: . Good hygiene and avoiding other people won't save me from a tornado ( or a flood, earthquake or even zombie hordes . well maybe zombie hordes ). But it does reduce my corona virus infection chances to near zero . So running out to get supplies or the wild berrys is a fail. And greatly increases that chance of infection. The community you've built up will be great for tornado response . Much less so for a disease that can be caught from a person showing no symptoms.

ETA My makeshift mask would be a shemagh. I wouldn't trust any home built mask to be 95% effective. Not that the shemagh would be either.
John Titor was right


We live in a world in which data convey authority. But authority has a way of descending to certitude, and certitude begets hubris.

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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by majorhavoc » Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:18 pm

Ever wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:02 am
I've been up all night going over and over my storage spreadsheets, from every direction I can think of

With what I'm showing it looks like I'm sitting on an easy seven month storage of food and basic necessities. Maybe even inching up to almost eight if COVID holds off for a just three more weeks before it slams my area.

And when I'm gaging from what I'm seeing in PRC, Italy, & S. Korea timelines of disruption I think, 'think', it's going to be possible for me to hold on without too much discomfort until my country is able to get our supply chains up and running again.

👍 I don't even how I pulled this off with just the time since the middle of January to now and my poverty level finances to work with. Right now I'm going to give myself a few back pats and a few minutes of ahhhhhh.
That is indeed an impressive achievement and shows that you don't need a ton of discretionary income to prep. But get some sleep. Seriously. You're thinking about this too hard. The novel corona virus is not going to be that bad.

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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by MPMalloy » Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:21 pm

flybynight wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:36 pm
ETA My makeshift mask would be a shemagh. I wouldn't trust any home built mask to be 95% effective. Not that the shemagh would be either.
That's a good idea FBN. Cover one's mask with clothing.

I nominate FBN for a ZS pat-on-the-back :crazy: :clownshoes:

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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by flybynight » Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:40 am

majorhavoc wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:18 pm
Ever wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:02 am
I've been up all night going over and over my storage spreadsheets, from every direction I can think of

With what I'm showing it looks like I'm sitting on an easy seven month storage of food and basic necessities. Maybe even inching up to almost eight if COVID holds off for a just three more weeks before it slams my area.

And when I'm gaging from what I'm seeing in PRC, Italy, & S. Korea timelines of disruption I think, 'think', it's going to be possible for me to hold on without too much discomfort until my country is able to get our supply chains up and running again.

👍 I don't even how I pulled this off with just the time since the middle of January to now and my poverty level finances to work with. Right now I'm going to give myself a few back pats and a few minutes of ahhhhhh.
That is indeed an impressive achievement and shows that you don't need a ton of discretionary income to prep. But get some sleep. Seriously. You're thinking about this too hard. The novel corona virus is not going to be that bad.
I agree. Outstanding results in so short a time on budget. But I don't think we have three more weeks before we get slammed. Unless the hope that rising spring temps curtail the spread.
John Titor was right


We live in a world in which data convey authority. But authority has a way of descending to certitude, and certitude begets hubris.

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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by Ever » Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:33 pm

Thanks for the positive feedback, and I 'did' sleep well last night.

Since Oklahoma and Colorado are now reporting confirmations, your three week estimate sans weather variables carries weight. So like a poster said in the COVID sitrep thread I feel I'm.... just waiting.
Ever, previously known here as 'zombiepreparation'
Member since October 2011


Thank you ZombieSquad for everything!

Thank you Members of ZS here & around the globe who helped me/us prepare for surviving the Pandemic of 2020-2021, & stayed to talk as we went thru it.

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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by amber5499 » Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:12 pm

A lot of people say the cheapest way to stock up is get beans and rice.Well we are not big beans and rice eaters- except for taco Tuesday! Then we usually cook yellow rice from a box. I got tired of not having it every time or depending on buying a box mix and decided to look for a copy cat recipe for mexican rice at our favorite restaurant. Came close enough that our family has a new rice recipe that we all like. I used granulated garlic and granulated chicken bullion, dried cilantro instead of fresh. So mostly a shelf stable recipe, and another way to make rice that we all like! And bonus my oldest child even ate the rice as leftovers!
https://www.favfamilyrecipes.com/restau ... ican-rice/

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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by Ever » Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:46 pm

amber5499 wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:12 pm
A lot of people say the cheapest way to stock up is get beans and rice.Well we are not big beans and rice eaters- except for taco Tuesday! Then we usually cook yellow rice from a box. I got tired of not having it every time or depending on buying a box mix and decided to look for a copy cat recipe for mexican rice at our favorite restaurant. Came close enough that our family has a new rice recipe that we all like. I used granulated garlic and granulated chicken bullion, dried cilantro instead of fresh. So mostly a shelf stable recipe, and another way to make rice that we all like! And bonus my oldest child even ate the rice as leftovers!
https://www.favfamilyrecipes.com/restau ... ican-rice/
Brilliant!
Ever, previously known here as 'zombiepreparation'
Member since October 2011


Thank you ZombieSquad for everything!

Thank you Members of ZS here & around the globe who helped me/us prepare for surviving the Pandemic of 2020-2021, & stayed to talk as we went thru it.

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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by Ever » Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:32 pm

Ever wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:33 pm
Since Oklahoma and Colorado are now reporting confirmations, your three week estimate sans weather variables carries weight. So like a poster said in the COVID sitrep thread I feel I'm.... just waiting.
Our first confirmed case just came across the wires.

It has begun.
Ever, previously known here as 'zombiepreparation'
Member since October 2011


Thank you ZombieSquad for everything!

Thank you Members of ZS here & around the globe who helped me/us prepare for surviving the Pandemic of 2020-2021, & stayed to talk as we went thru it.

zombie hunters are being sighted gathering around campfires at ufozs.com

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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by flybynight » Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:00 pm

Ever wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:32 pm
Ever wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:33 pm
Since Oklahoma and Colorado are now reporting confirmations, your three week estimate sans weather variables carries weight. So like a poster said in the COVID sitrep thread I feel I'm.... just waiting.
Our first confirmed case just came across the wires.

It has begun.
Daughter txtd me while picking up wife. Was going to message you here when I got home. Oh Sh!t hate when I'm right
John Titor was right


We live in a world in which data convey authority. But authority has a way of descending to certitude, and certitude begets hubris.

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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by Ever » Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:45 pm

Does Zombie Hunters have a page or something to translate the various acronyms being used in this forum?
Ever, previously known here as 'zombiepreparation'
Member since October 2011


Thank you ZombieSquad for everything!

Thank you Members of ZS here & around the globe who helped me/us prepare for surviving the Pandemic of 2020-2021, & stayed to talk as we went thru it.

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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by majorhavoc » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:16 pm

Ever wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:45 pm
Does Zombie Hunters have a page or something to translate the various acronyms being used in this forum?
Ask and yea shall receive ...

http://www.zombiehunters.org/forum/view ... =25&t=6268

Don't see the acronym you're looking for? Ask. I guarantee you there are twelve other people wondering what the f*ck it means too.

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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by Ever » Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:52 pm

Thank You!!!
Ever, previously known here as 'zombiepreparation'
Member since October 2011


Thank you ZombieSquad for everything!

Thank you Members of ZS here & around the globe who helped me/us prepare for surviving the Pandemic of 2020-2021, & stayed to talk as we went thru it.

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Re: The Poor Man’s Prepping

Post by Ever » Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:31 am

My many thanks to @Grumpy46 for starting this terrific beginner's prepping thread for those of us who have little money to spare, ever.

And thanks to all the posters who joined the discussion, offering their own experiences and tips.

This thread meant the world to me when I was just beginning.

.
Ever, previously known here as 'zombiepreparation'
Member since October 2011


Thank you ZombieSquad for everything!

Thank you Members of ZS here & around the globe who helped me/us prepare for surviving the Pandemic of 2020-2021, & stayed to talk as we went thru it.

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