Search found 402 matches

by TerryGecko
Mon May 30, 2011 9:26 pm
Forum: Handguns
Topic: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)
Replies: 653
Views: 53421

Re: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)

BeTheBall wrote:
Five-seveN handgun
AR57 SBR (12" barrel), suppressed
FNP-45 Tacitcal (also suppressed)
Taurus Millennium Pro 9mm
AR-15 (16" barrel, optionally suppressed)
Bersa Thunder 380
Kel Tec Sub2k


5.7x28 ammo:
SS197
Elite Ammo ProtecTOR
Elite Ammo S5
Elite Ammo S4M
Updated list, my additions in bold.
by TerryGecko
Mon May 30, 2011 9:21 pm
Forum: Handguns
Topic: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)
Replies: 653
Views: 53421

Re: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)

Yeah, all I can provide is money, FiveseveN, PS90's and ammunition. I have Trident, ProtecTOR 2, SS197, and my own handloads (they aren't better than any of Elites loads though so it would be pointless). NC would obviously be better for me but I can travel. The Pawn Shop up the road from me has a Ke...
by TerryGecko
Mon May 30, 2011 5:04 pm
Forum: Handguns
Topic: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)
Replies: 653
Views: 53421

Re: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)

Just as a clarification. Through ft hood shooter was popped five times with fmj 9mm. He was technically dead, only modern trauma care saved him. Just as a further clarification I don't think 57 is horrible just that there are better choices. No need for clarification, I posted he was shot 5 times w...
by TerryGecko
Mon May 30, 2011 4:57 pm
Forum: Handguns
Topic: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)
Replies: 653
Views: 53421

Re: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)

No need for clarification, I posted he was shot 5 times with fmj 9mm and almost died (survived). Sgt munley was shot twice in the leg (with the civi SS197) and almost died also. It seems to me that the proper metric of effectiveness isn't "the person who was shot died sometime later". It probably i...
by TerryGecko
Mon May 30, 2011 4:51 pm
Forum: Handguns
Topic: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)
Replies: 653
Views: 53421

Re: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)

Just as a clarification. Through ft hood shooter was popped five times with fmj 9mm. He was technically dead, only modern trauma care saved him. Just as a further clarification I don't think 57 is horrible just that there are better choices. No need for clarification, I posted he was shot 5 times w...
by TerryGecko
Mon May 30, 2011 4:29 pm
Forum: Handguns
Topic: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)
Replies: 653
Views: 53421

Re: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)

Civilians essentially blast at paper on ranges with little consideration in training as to what innocent people could die after the round would go through the target. That is simply due to the fact most agencies train with firearms for months daily while civilians can take a one day class to get a ...
by TerryGecko
Mon May 30, 2011 3:57 pm
Forum: Handguns
Topic: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)
Replies: 653
Views: 53421

Re: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)

Terry, just to clarify, the reason why I say 10-12" is an absolute must is this: "For example, a shot from the side through the arm must penetrate at least 10-12 inches to pass through the heart ." From the FBI Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness. Unless you plan on only shooting someone fac...
by TerryGecko
Mon May 30, 2011 3:32 pm
Forum: Handguns
Topic: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)
Replies: 653
Views: 53421

Re: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)

TDW: Would you happen to have access to a 5.2x28 weapon? You strike me as someone who as a lot of technical knowhow and is an analytical type of person, soooo. If you do have access and the ability to perform ballistic gel tests, I would be happy to send you some SS917 rounds, Elite Ammo's S5 and s...
by TerryGecko
Mon May 30, 2011 2:24 pm
Forum: Handguns
Topic: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)
Replies: 653
Views: 53421

Re: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)

Well, I would be happy to continue to debate but understand if you'd like to leave. I will be patiently waiting for your results. You have come your conclusions, and I really don't think there is anything anyone can do to persuade you. Fair enough, you're entitled to make your own choices. I've rep...
by TerryGecko
Mon May 30, 2011 2:20 pm
Forum: Handguns
Topic: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)
Replies: 653
Views: 53421

Re: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)

You can see how 5.7 loads react to bone in Sgt Munley's blog. She describes that it shattered into a million tiny pieces and by shear miracle, the doctors were able to save her leg after many surgeries and hours of rehabilitation. Unfortunately, I don't have a verifiable article off hand that descr...
by TerryGecko
Mon May 30, 2011 2:11 pm
Forum: Handguns
Topic: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)
Replies: 653
Views: 53421

Re: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)

You clearly misunderstood. As you and I have both pointed out, each weapon system/caliber has it's own pros and cons. The pros of the FsN greatly outweigh the cons for me. Since I don't have a strict set of standards imposed upon me that was created out of a single isolated incident, I am free to c...
by TerryGecko
Mon May 30, 2011 2:06 pm
Forum: Handguns
Topic: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)
Replies: 653
Views: 53421

Re: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)

I've never spent so much time arguing about something I didn't own/believe in. I've got a lot of spare time at work right now. EDIT: I really would like to hear why you don't think penetration is important for civilian defensive loads. Im curious about this too.... an ideal hit would be a shot that...
by TerryGecko
Mon May 30, 2011 1:46 pm
Forum: Handguns
Topic: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)
Replies: 653
Views: 53421

Re: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)

If I feel something is incorrect I'm going to correct it. Which is exactly why I, for one, am posting in this thread. I'm sorry if you feel I have ruined the thread by not agreeing that the 5.7x28mm is an excellent option for self defense, and that the weapons systems it is exculsive to are inferio...
by TerryGecko
Mon May 30, 2011 1:11 pm
Forum: Handguns
Topic: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)
Replies: 653
Views: 53421

Re: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)

Terry, there are things wrong with every weapons system. For someone who has stated that they realize this, you sure do feel the need to argue against every single potential flaw that anyone points out. :) I happen to own these firearms and have studied them (and others) endlessly. What's bizarre t...
by TerryGecko
Mon May 30, 2011 12:58 pm
Forum: Handguns
Topic: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)
Replies: 653
Views: 53421

Re: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)

I know there is a real life incident where some BG was shot 7 times with 45 JHP, lived, and later described the sensation of being shot "like a bee stinging me". That someone can be shot multiple times and live is indicative of the modern day ER. Also, how someone perceives the sensation of being s...
by TerryGecko
Mon May 30, 2011 12:47 pm
Forum: Handguns
Topic: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)
Replies: 653
Views: 53421

Re: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)

Ok, the SBR PS90 vs. the SBR Ar15 w/a 10" barrel. The PS90 is moderately shorter however both will easily fit into a tennis racket case. The AR is more affordable, cheaper mags, components. The AR is by far more dispersed. The 5.56 even out of a SBR is by far more effective. There is a much wider v...
by TerryGecko
Mon May 30, 2011 12:06 pm
Forum: Handguns
Topic: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)
Replies: 653
Views: 53421

Re: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)

I'll be back later to jump back into the debate, but in the mean time, while you guys discuss FBI standards, I am simply going to remind you about the Fort Hood travesty where an untrained, F^$%$@ lunatic managed to kill 12 soldiers and seriously wound 30 more, all with the "underpowered" SS197 rou...
by TerryGecko
Mon May 30, 2011 8:06 am
Forum: Handguns
Topic: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)
Replies: 653
Views: 53421

Re: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)

That's your opinion though. In my opinion the FiveseveN is better for defense. For example, it is a fact that body armor is becoming more and more prevalent. I, as a civilian, own body armor and there are 1000's of posts on arfcom of civilians who do also. If we can obtain it, so can bad guys. I ha...
by TerryGecko
Mon May 30, 2011 8:03 am
Forum: Handguns
Topic: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)
Replies: 653
Views: 53421

Re: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)

You may agree but I find the PS90/P90 very useful in many scenarios for a civilian because you are in the defensive usually as a civilian. What we've all agreed on so far is that the 5.7x28mm round is a viable SD option. Actually, I'm still searching for conclusive data. Aside from the Brassfetcher...
by TerryGecko
Sun May 29, 2011 11:13 pm
Forum: Handguns
Topic: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)
Replies: 653
Views: 53421

Re: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)

As I said, the P90 is a very narrow niche weapon, we seem to agree on this. One point, and please do not read anything into this; the fact that the 5.7 has taken larger game than humans effectively is meaningless, in and of itself. The .22 LR has also taken larger game than human effectively, and t...
by TerryGecko
Sun May 29, 2011 10:33 pm
Forum: Handguns
Topic: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)
Replies: 653
Views: 53421

Re: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)

Okay. Just wondering since you had mentioned that 5.7 ammo wasn't expensive (EA's ammo is). We said it wasn't expensive to train with. We train with SS197 but carry Elite's loads. I'll argue that 9mm is better for about 99% of all threats. As a civilian armour penetration is a non-issue. More accur...
by TerryGecko
Sun May 29, 2011 9:56 pm
Forum: Handguns
Topic: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)
Replies: 653
Views: 53421

Re: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)

MadMonkey wrote:
Are we talking standard Fiocchi-produced civilian ammo, LE ammo, or something like Elite Ammunition is producing?

We've been talking about Elite Ammunition's 5.7 loads since page 2.
by TerryGecko
Sun May 29, 2011 9:52 pm
Forum: Handguns
Topic: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)
Replies: 653
Views: 53421

Re: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)

My beef with the 57 is not that it isn't adequate but just that it's not any better. It only comes in 3 flavors, AR57, 57 pistol and the PS90. None of them are monumentally better than anything else out there. The AR-15 5.56 is a better gun and is cheaper even in a SBR than a PS90 in it's unneutere...
by TerryGecko
Sun May 29, 2011 8:38 pm
Forum: Handguns
Topic: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)
Replies: 653
Views: 53421

Re: FNH FiveseveN (5.7x28)

I'm sorry, I am interested in the discussion and learned a few new things. Why does it bother you so much to consider that there may be disadvantages as well as advantages to your chosen platform. In case I wasn't clear, I'll state for the record, it seems to me that the 5.7 is a viable defensive c...

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