Zombie Squad

We make dead things deader
It is currently Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:15 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Aich's Alloy for knives?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:12 pm 
Offline
* * *
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:40 pm
Posts: 378
Location: Ft Campbell, KY
So, I was looking at some information online... because, well, I have too much time on my hands... and I found an interesting alloy of Copper, Zinc, and Iron. 60 parts Copper, 38 parts Zinc, 1.2 parts Iron, to be exact. It's called Aich's Alloy or Aich's Metal. It's supposed to be unequaled in most regards "by all but the best steels."

Funny thing... ammunition case brass is 60 parts Copper, ~30 parts Zinc. So... all that fired-up brass you can't use anymore? Anyone ever tried to toss a few new pennies in with it, a bit of iron powder, and make up a bit of Aich's? Or, if you haven't forged it yourself, has anyone ever heard of knives made out of the stuff?

I'm intrigued...

_________________
My Youtube Channel... please visit, like, and subscribe! http://www.youtube.com/user/JHP762

civvie wrote:
By purchasing fewer things you can afford better things.


NCO to me: "I'll give you a hint... it rhymes with 'no'."
Me to NCO: "F'sho? It's f'sho, isn't it?"

All I smell is Gin, and Smoke, and Lies...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:42 am 
Offline
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:37 pm
Posts: 16054
Location: City of Saint Louis
Im having a hard time finding any rockwell numbers for this stuff. Near as I can find, it was once used in marine environments as brass fares better against salt corrosion than steel.

That said, I share the others skepticism that it would be anywhere near as hard or tough as any modern steel made in the last 150 years.

_________________
MF'N TEAM LEADER

"Some people think that the best way to stop the leopard is to cut the horns off the gazelle. This, my friends, is insane."

Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:57 am 
Offline
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:12 pm
Posts: 18415
Location: Chicago, IL
Was this that shit used in the...80s? For non-sparking, non-magnetic EOD knives?

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:00 am 
Offline
* *

Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:52 pm
Posts: 205
Location: Denmark
So basically we are supposed to make our knives out of brass? Call it what you want, this is still nothing more than brass.

It may be "unequalled by all but the best steels", in some regards, but making blades will never be one of them. Hell... For that that purpose, it would struggle to even come close to the worst steels.

_________________
Gear is a poor substitute for knowledge. And much heavier.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:38 am 
Offline
* * *
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:40 pm
Posts: 378
Location: Ft Campbell, KY
eh, I was just asking, guys. Basically what I'm getting is a bunch of "I don't know"s... and that's fine. A lot of conjecture, but no one seems to have ever seen it, or even know what Aich's is. I guess that should say something right there.

_________________
My Youtube Channel... please visit, like, and subscribe! http://www.youtube.com/user/JHP762

civvie wrote:
By purchasing fewer things you can afford better things.


NCO to me: "I'll give you a hint... it rhymes with 'no'."
Me to NCO: "F'sho? It's f'sho, isn't it?"

All I smell is Gin, and Smoke, and Lies...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:42 am 
Offline
* * *
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:40 pm
Posts: 378
Location: Ft Campbell, KY
Quietus wrote:
So basically we are supposed to make our knives out of brass? Call it what you want, this is still nothing more than brass.

It may be "unequalled by all but the best steels", in some regards, but making blades will never be one of them. Hell... For that that purpose, it would struggle to even come close to the worst steels.


^^^ I have kind of an issue with responses like this. "Call it what you want, this is still nothing more than brass..." is like saying, "call stainless steel what you will, it's still nothing more than iron." It's a completely different material. If you don't know, that's cool, but opining (falsely) about a scientific fact doesn't even make sense.

With that said, the original question was, "has anyone ever made any or even heard of knives being made out of (aich's alloy.)" Obviously, the answer is "no." So, there we go. /thread

_________________
My Youtube Channel... please visit, like, and subscribe! http://www.youtube.com/user/JHP762

civvie wrote:
By purchasing fewer things you can afford better things.


NCO to me: "I'll give you a hint... it rhymes with 'no'."
Me to NCO: "F'sho? It's f'sho, isn't it?"

All I smell is Gin, and Smoke, and Lies...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:33 am 
Offline
* *

Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:52 pm
Posts: 205
Location: Denmark
jehicks87 wrote:
^^^ I have kind of an issue with responses like this. "Call it what you want, this is still nothing more than brass..." is like saying, "call stainless steel what you will, it's still nothing more than iron." It's a completely different material. If you don't know, that's cool, but opining (falsely) about a scientific fact doesn't even make sense.


No need to get defensive.

But if you are going to call me a liar, at least have the decency to check your facts first.
Aich's alloy IS brass. It is even officially categorised as such. It is basically a slightly stronger version of Muntz metal, and both are made for, and suited for, the same uses. Mainly hull lining for ships and similar applications.
For that purpose, it is indeed better than steel. Better than most other metals in fact. Perhaps with the exception of copper which they are designed to be cheaper alternatives to.

This was never intended to be used for blades. And it would not perform well in that role.

_________________
Gear is a poor substitute for knowledge. And much heavier.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:10 pm 
Offline
* * * * *

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:50 pm
Posts: 1991
Location: Greater Clear Lake Area, Texas
Image

_________________
Image

mzmadmike wrote:
I may even buy another semiautomatic assault weapon rambo killing machine for my small penis, with lots of large capacity non-reusable clips full of armor piercing incendiary mercury tracer poisoned explosive hollowpoint glaser black talons


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:26 pm 
Offline
* * * *
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 5:43 pm
Posts: 914
Location: Oregon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brass

It's listed at the bottom of the page.

I'm pretty sure my spyderco can cut through a brass shell casing...

_________________
ninja-elbow wrote:
ZSC:011 Oregon: We Bug Out wet, dry, at the coast or the high desert ... maybe even the mountains, in a town or in a valley or something....


"We are moral beings only to the extent that we are social beings" - Emile Durkheim


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:34 pm 
Offline
* * *
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:40 pm
Posts: 378
Location: Ft Campbell, KY
Quietus wrote:
jehicks87 wrote:
^^^ I have kind of an issue with responses like this. "Call it what you want, this is still nothing more than brass..." is like saying, "call stainless steel what you will, it's still nothing more than iron." It's a completely different material. If you don't know, that's cool, but opining (falsely) about a scientific fact doesn't even make sense.


No need to get defensive.

But if you are going to call me a liar, at least have the decency to check your facts first.
Aich's alloy IS brass. It is even officially categorised as such. It is basically a slightly stronger version of Muntz metal, and both are made for, and suited for, the same uses. Mainly hull lining for ships and similar applications.
For that purpose, it is indeed better than steel. Better than most other metals in fact. Perhaps with the exception of copper which they are designed to be cheaper alternatives to.

This was never intended to be used for blades. And it would not perform well in that role.


Not getting defensive, I've just been told that I need to "talk things through" when I start to get peeved. I'm not very good at it yet. :wink:

Aaaand I didn't call you a liar. I said to say it is "nothing more than brass" is wrong. It's a an alloy of brass, which is already an alloy. It's still classified as brass, but it's properties are different. Yes, I checked.

I was curious if it had ever been used for blades, like I said. Apparently, it hasn't. I'm no expert in metallurgy which is why I asked in a forum where a bunch of knife-makers hang out.

Seriously, sorry if it came across as defensive. Without going into too much detail, I've had to start going to see someone on post about getting angry/peeved so easily... I know I can come across as a dick sometimes, so again I'm sorry if it seemed that way.

BigDaddyTx, that flow chart actually made me laugh out loud.

_________________
My Youtube Channel... please visit, like, and subscribe! http://www.youtube.com/user/JHP762

civvie wrote:
By purchasing fewer things you can afford better things.


NCO to me: "I'll give you a hint... it rhymes with 'no'."
Me to NCO: "F'sho? It's f'sho, isn't it?"

All I smell is Gin, and Smoke, and Lies...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:10 pm 
Offline
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:10 am
Posts: 263
Location: CRE
Jeriah wrote:
Was this that shit used in the...80s? For non-sparking, non-magnetic EOD knives?


That was probably beryllium copper. We had tools made out of it, for use around sensitive equipment, for it's anti magnetic properties.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:39 pm 
Offline
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:37 pm
Posts: 16054
Location: City of Saint Louis
I think in the 80s they were making non-sparking EOD knives out of the same porcelain they made glocks out of. :gonk:

_________________
MF'N TEAM LEADER

"Some people think that the best way to stop the leopard is to cut the horns off the gazelle. This, my friends, is insane."

Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:50 pm 
Offline
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:10 am
Posts: 263
Location: CRE
crypto wrote:
I think in the 80s they were making non-sparking EOD knives out of the same porcelain they made glocks out of. :gonk:


I didn't think ceramic knives were that advanced in the '80s, but you could be right. I based that purely on the composition of other tools we were using in the '70s and '80s


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:22 pm 
Offline
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:37 pm
Posts: 16054
Location: City of Saint Louis
No, I was just being retarded. I bet you could make a decent knife out of bronze. Even if it didn't hold an edge very well, it'd work well enough for single-use EOD / UXO encounters.

_________________
MF'N TEAM LEADER

"Some people think that the best way to stop the leopard is to cut the horns off the gazelle. This, my friends, is insane."

Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:37 pm 
Offline
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:12 pm
Posts: 18415
Location: Chicago, IL
cv66er wrote:
Jeriah wrote:
Was this that shit used in the...80s? For non-sparking, non-magnetic EOD knives?


That was probably beryllium copper. We had tools made out of it, for use around sensitive equipment, for it's anti magnetic properties.


You're right, that's what it was. (This was for an explosives knife/tool issued to the SEALs, as described in Dockery's book.)

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:06 am 
Offline
* * *
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:40 pm
Posts: 378
Location: Ft Campbell, KY
Jeriah wrote:
cv66er wrote:
Jeriah wrote:
Was this that shit used in the...80s? For non-sparking, non-magnetic EOD knives?


That was probably beryllium copper. We had tools made out of it, for use around sensitive equipment, for it's anti magnetic properties.


You're right, that's what it was. (This was for an explosives knife/tool issued to the SEALs, as described in Dockery's book.)


They made knives out of beryllium copper? Our droop stops are made out of that... they're carcinogenic as all hell. Big old warnings all over the TM's if you have to work on them/touch them.

_________________
My Youtube Channel... please visit, like, and subscribe! http://www.youtube.com/user/JHP762

civvie wrote:
By purchasing fewer things you can afford better things.


NCO to me: "I'll give you a hint... it rhymes with 'no'."
Me to NCO: "F'sho? It's f'sho, isn't it?"

All I smell is Gin, and Smoke, and Lies...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:29 am 
Offline
ZS Lifetime Member
ZS Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:12 pm
Posts: 18415
Location: Chicago, IL
jehicks87 wrote:
Jeriah wrote:
cv66er wrote:
Jeriah wrote:
Was this that shit used in the...80s? For non-sparking, non-magnetic EOD knives?


That was probably beryllium copper. We had tools made out of it, for use around sensitive equipment, for it's anti magnetic properties.


You're right, that's what it was. (This was for an explosives knife/tool issued to the SEALs, as described in Dockery's book.)


They made knives out of beryllium copper? Our droop stops are made out of that... they're carcinogenic as all hell. Big old warnings all over the TM's if you have to work on them/touch them.


This was the 1960s, so cancer warnings may not have been what they are today. Or, maybe it's a different alloy. But probably this was back when they were like, "Yeah, you've got to lick the brushes, and no, I don't give a shit what your grandkids are going to look like."

http://www.donrearic.com/demoknife2.html

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:42 am 
Offline
ZS Donor
ZS Donor
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:37 pm
Posts: 16054
Location: City of Saint Louis
jehicks87 wrote:
They made knives out of beryllium copper? Our droop stops are made out of that... they're carcinogenic as all hell. Big old warnings all over the TM's if you have to work on them/touch them.



Beryllium is only toxic if ingested. Your droop stops are more of a problem because they scrape or rub on the rotor hub during startup / shutdown, and generate beryllium-bearing dust, which youre then likely to breathe.

If you had a pile of new-in-bag stops, they wouldn't be a problem unless you ate them.

FYI: You probably shouldn't sharpen a knife made out of beryllium-copper.

_________________
MF'N TEAM LEADER

"Some people think that the best way to stop the leopard is to cut the horns off the gazelle. This, my friends, is insane."

Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:37 am 
Offline
ZS Global Moderator
ZS Global Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:45 am
Posts: 5366
Location: BC Canada
crypto wrote:
FYI: You probably shouldn't sharpen a knife made out of beryllium-copper.


I believe with old bronze age stuff they didn't sharpen by grinding, but by beating. Maybe thats the way to do it?

_________________
My Guide to making your own Bowstring
My Guide to making your own Flint Arrowheads
My Guide to Fletching
My Guide to Primitive Fletching
Cymro wrote:
Seriously, I'm not sure I'd fuck with Ad'lan if he had his bow with him. I just don't see that ending well.

Please Check out my PAW Story, Fagin


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:43 pm 
Offline
ZS Member
ZS Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:59 pm
Posts: 1474
Location: Darkest Norfolk
Forging brass is a PITA,at any usable temperature the zinc boils out leaving you with a crumbly copper matrix.
Cast and then cold work followed cutting and abrading is the easiest way to go.

Ad'lan. Yes and no, you'd hone and strop to finish a cold work-hardened edge. So the hammer would take the place of the bench grinder or linisher but you'd still grind on your bench stones.

crypto wrote:
FYI: You probably shouldn't sharpen a knife made out of beryllium-copper.

You could if you have a wet system

_________________
I'm English, our Government doesn't trust us to have real guns........or decent pocket knives for that matter
Good job theres no such thing as a Trebuchet licence :D

Image




Winner, PMBoB

ZS:X- Its time to top Zed and drink Earl Grey... And we're all out of lemon


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group