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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 3:17 pm 
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My wife is a LEO, and I've been posting off and on for the past few months (and bugging some of our members via PM) about my journey to set up an 'active shooter' rig for her. After much brain sweat, she's got one in the back of her patrol car. I thought a post about it might be useful to the LEOs who frequent these boards, as well as other folks who may have a need or desire for something similar.

Before pics, though, a bit of background on 'active shooter' situations as they pertain to law enforcement. Before the Columbine shootings occurred, it was pretty standard for patrol officers to basically surround an incident and try and contain things until the high speed SWAT guys showed up and took down the building/shooter. Post Columbine (and thanks to several other high profile massacres), the public has come to expect (rightfully) that the cops need to get into the situation ASAP, and that standing around and waiting for SWAT = a higher body count. Accordingly, most departments have implemented 'active shooter' training for their non SWAT officers. Basically, they get taught the techniques needed to clear a building and take down the bad guys, or at least get things headed in the right direction until the better armed and trained officers arrive.

An 'active shooter kit', then, needs to include the basic items needed to allow an officer to grab their longarm and go to work in a situation where people are down and the bad guys are trying to kill everybody they can, including the responding officers. Since the average LEO doesn't carry these items on their person on a day to day basis, they need something they can get out of their patrol car quickly, doesn't bog them down, but has the gear inside needed to deal with this type of situation.

Here's what I came up with:

Image

The bag is a Maxpedition Remora, from their 'Gearslinger' series. Link with better information on the bag: http://www.maxpedition.com/store/pc/Rem ... -2p384.htm I added a magazine pouch on the left, and the OD pouch on front is a spare magazine pouch with medic shears. This isn't a great picture, but you can see that I replaced the pull tabs on the zippers on one of the pouches with red tabs - - this is her first aid pouch. There are numerous zippered pouches on this bag, I wanted her to be able to rapidly identify her first aid pouch in the heat of the moment.

Image

Pouch contents starting at the top and going clockwise: 3 extra boxes of shotgun shells, spare batteries for weapon light and EOtech on her AR, flex cuffs, spare AR mag, medic shears, 5x9 trauma pad, 4" roll gauze, izzy bandage, duct tape, tourniquet. She has total of 3 magazines for the AR on her person (if you include the one in the rifle), if she opts for her shotgun as a longarm she has a full tube, plus 8 shells on a sidesaddle, plus 15 additional rounds in boxes on her person. That plus her basic pistol load-out should give a fighting chance from a 'things that go bang' standpoint. The medical supplies are intended as a self-aid/buddy aid kit, not for general treatment of wounded civilians, although she could do that if needed.

Finally, a picture of her rifle setup, with carrying case:

Image

Colt LE6920 carried 'cruiser ready' (magazine inserted, empty chamber, weapon on safe). Magpul CTR stock and MOE handguards, EOtech 512 optic, padded VTAC sling, Surefire 6P light on Vltor quick release mount (she works second shift, so she can clip the light on if she needs it, or leave it off), ARMS 40 BUIS, BCM Gunfighter Mod 4 charging handle. The case is a Spike's Tactical 36" soft case.

Anyway, that's that. This was a suprisingly difficult project. Thanks to all the ZS folks who contributed. As always, comments, suggestions, and questions are welcome.

ETA: Picture size increased - - thanks Alias and Mr. E. Monkey!

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Last edited by DannusMaximus on Thu May 05, 2011 5:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 3:38 pm 
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I would suggest leaving the light mounted to the weapon at ALL times. Even if she's responding to a situation in broad daylight, there's no way of knowing when she may have to go inside a building and there's no way of knowing what conditions will be like once inside. I'd want to "grab and go" and not waste even a second debating the light, and I'd really hate to not have it on there when I suddenly needed it. Something to think about at least.

Other than that it looks like a great setup. Nice work! :)

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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 4:44 pm 
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I agree with Civilian Scout--leaving the light mounted makes sense. That looks like a well thought-out kit, nice work. I hope your wife never needs any of it. :)


<Pic removed due to update from OP. :) >

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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 5:14 pm 
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Looks like a good setup. I'd consider adding a loaded pistol mag for her sidearm as well. In Columbine the school officer was pretty much out of ammo by the time other LEO's arrived. If she has an extra loaded mag she can provide it to another officer if needed and still have her normal extra mags.

Other than that, the only other thing I might change is to swap out 6 or 8 rounds of normal shotgun ammo for breaching rounds. She may need to blow some door hinges if she encounters locked doors.

As to light, I agree, make it permament. Even in daytime buildings can be dark, espeically if you are in the interior away from windows and the power is out. Just set the flashlight to always be on the gun and leave it that way. One less thing to mess with or worry about.

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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 5:37 pm 
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Trebor wrote:
Other than that, the only other thing I might change is to swap out 6 or 8 rounds of normal shotgun ammo for breaching rounds. She may need to blow some door hinges if she encounters locked doors.


As cool as this sounds, her departments policy will trump all this if there is no mention of breaching rounds in their active shooter policy and training. Believe me, you dont want to go outside of that policy especially in an active shooter scenario when people are dying. The last thing you need is a 10 million dollar judgement that your department can pin on you because you went outside of policy.

But I wholeheartedly support adding more pistol rounds/mags. My old active shooter consisted of three extra pistol mags, ten rounds of shotgun, and one rifle mag.

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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 5:39 pm 
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Concur with the light mount. We'll go with it attached all the time. Makes sense

Also concur with an extra pistol mag. There are MOLLE attachments on both sides of the bag, I can put a single mag pouch on the side opposite the AR mag. I never thought about being able to supply another officer with extra ammo. Another spare pistol mag on hand makes sense.

I'm not sure about adding breaching rounds. Neither she (nor I) have had any training with them. I know it's not rocket science, but I'm hesitant to put things in the bag that she doesn't have first hand experience with. That's one of the reasons I don't have any Quikclot or equivalent in it - - I haven't been trained with it (not used in my AO by civilian EMS).

On the good side, it's not such a large department that the SWAT and tactical gurus are seperate from patrol on a day to day basis. She's got lots of contacts that work on the SWAT side of things, including the department trainers. She could probably wrangle a lesson from one of them fairly easily. I'll mention something to her about it. Breaching rounds wouldn't be a bad thing to add if the department uses them and she can get some training.

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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 7:15 pm 
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The stock sling mount is my hang up. Does it bother her? It looks to me like it would bug the shit out of me not to mention it could release its self? I would also tape up the rest of the excess strap.

A couple chemlights also for the bag. But as normal bro it looks good!

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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 7:52 pm 
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gravediggerfour wrote:
The stock sling mount is my hang up. Does it bother her? It looks to me like it would bug the shit out of me not to mention it could release its self? I would also tape up the rest of the excess strap.

A couple chemlights also for the bag. But as normal bro it looks good!


The sling is mounted on a DD heavy duty swivel, quick detach. She ran her department patrol rifle course with it, and didn't run into any problems as far as comfort or having it release (at least none that she mentioned, I'll ask her). She doesn't have a lot of external battle rattle for the stock QD to snag on, her vest is under her shirt. I ran last years milcopp class with a similar set up, and didn't have any release issues either. Honestly, I'm not sure how to mount it on the stock otherwise - - can you think of any other options? I guess I could run some tape over the button, but then you can't quick release it if you get hung up on something. Hmmm.

I do need to take care of the excess strap - - It's sized to her, so I could probably just cut off the excess?

Chemlight is an interesting thought. What would you use them for, specifically? And don't say "for light", smartass! :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 8:08 pm 
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Through the provided loop in the stock that way it will naturally go over the shoulder.

Chemlights could be used for marking her location to people outside for visual identification. http://www.cyalume.com/pdf/Doctrine/MOU ... ghtsIR.pdf

I always cut the excess down off of a sling after a few range trips, burn the edges and leave only 2-3 inches of excess.


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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 8:14 pm 
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Looks good, but most important: make sure she trains with it. Tell her to wear it when she shoots quals and drills Active Shooter. That's the only way to test the gear configuration and familiarize your self with it.

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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 8:18 pm 
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gravediggerfour wrote:
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Through the provided loop in the stock that way it will naturally go over the shoulder.

Chemlights could be used for marking her location to people outside for visual identification. http://www.cyalume.com/pdf/Doctrine/MOU ... ghtsIR.pdf

I always cut the excess down off of a sling after a few range trips, burn the edges and leave only 2-3 inches of excess.

I tried the built in loop on mine, and if I remember correctly it keeps you from being able to fully collapse the stock, because it jams between the stock and buffer tube. Do you not collapse the stock, or are you looping it in a way that keeps the interference from happening?

I like the idea of chemlights as marking lights. Could be used in a dark building to mark casualties or entrances/exits as well. She can probably snag a few from the SWAT bubbas, I'll mention it to her.

I'll cut down the excess on our next range trip.

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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 8:31 pm 
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Never ran it like that on a Magpul stock, on a classic M-4 style stock it does not jam up. I loop it over the stock from my body side then back through the hole provided in the stock and attach it on the other side.

Room marking is very handy when surrounded by good guys....

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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 8:40 pm 
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Im getting away from the plastic sling loops in the stock entirely, and opting for end-plate sling mounts. I have found after a training class in which we shot fully half the course from our support side, that a sling attached to the end of the stock is absolutely in the way if you want to shoot from the support side. You need to take the sling off your body entirely or it ends up wrapped around your neck.

Moving the rear sling attachment to the end plate in front of the castle nut goes a long way towards eliminating the problem.

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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 8:49 pm 
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crypto wrote:
Im getting away from the plastic sling loops in the stock entirely, and opting for end-plate sling mounts. I have found after a training class in which we shot fully half the course from our support side, that a sling attached to the end of the stock is absolutely in the way if you want to shoot from the support side. You need to take the sling off your body entirely or it ends up wrapped around your neck.

Moving the rear sling attachment to the end plate in front of the castle nut goes a long way towards eliminating the problem.



I used to love running single points in the real world due to the fact I never had a side arm. I dont like running a two point that far forward on the stock either. The important part is that you got a good sling there.

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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 8:55 pm 
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crypto wrote:
Im getting away from the plastic sling loops in the stock entirely, and opting for end-plate sling mounts. I have found after a training class in which we shot fully half the course from our support side, that a sling attached to the end of the stock is absolutely in the way if you want to shoot from the support side. You need to take the sling off your body entirely or it ends up wrapped around your neck.

Moving the rear sling attachment to the end plate in front of the castle nut goes a long way towards eliminating the problem.

That's very interesting. So for let's say a troy sling mount do you just take out the swivel ring and put it on the other side? I'm just trying to visualize it in my head.

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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 8:58 pm 
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Bearcat wrote:
crypto wrote:
Im getting away from the plastic sling loops in the stock entirely, and opting for end-plate sling mounts. I have found after a training class in which we shot fully half the course from our support side, that a sling attached to the end of the stock is absolutely in the way if you want to shoot from the support side. You need to take the sling off your body entirely or it ends up wrapped around your neck.

Moving the rear sling attachment to the end plate in front of the castle nut goes a long way towards eliminating the problem.

That's very interesting. So for let's say a troy sling mount do you just take out the swivel ring and put it on the other side? I'm just trying to visualize it in my head.



Yes if you have time.... Its way faster just to shed the sling engage then go back normal if your able too...IMHO

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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 9:03 pm 
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gravediggerfour wrote:
Bearcat wrote:
crypto wrote:
Im getting away from the plastic sling loops in the stock entirely, and opting for end-plate sling mounts. I have found after a training class in which we shot fully half the course from our support side, that a sling attached to the end of the stock is absolutely in the way if you want to shoot from the support side. You need to take the sling off your body entirely or it ends up wrapped around your neck.

Moving the rear sling attachment to the end plate in front of the castle nut goes a long way towards eliminating the problem.

That's very interesting. So for let's say a troy sling mount do you just take out the swivel ring and put it on the other side? I'm just trying to visualize it in my head.



Yes if you have time.... Its way faster just to shed the sling engage then go back normal if your able too...IMHO

:idea: Makes sense. That's why I wanted to ask. Thanks!

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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 9:56 pm 
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Yes to chem lights and an extra pistol mag or two.

Also, for the flex cuffs, go ahead and "prep" them for use. That way she can more easily put them on someone one handed. Maybe two sets total of those readily available.

I realize you are running out of real estate and don't want to overload the bag so there may have to be some give and take. For example, you can ditch one box of the shotgun ammo and make a little more room for something else. She will probably need to work with it for awhile to figure out the "perfect" balance for her.

Very good idea though and very thoughtful of you. My hat is off to you for your efforts.


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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 10:01 pm 
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DannusMaximus wrote:
Since the average LEO doesn't carry these items on their person on a day to day basis, they need something they can get out of their patrol car quickly, doesn't bog them down, but has the gear inside needed to deal with this type of situation.

Here's what I came up with:

Image

The bag is a Maxpedition Remora, from their 'Gearslinger' series. Link with better information on the bag: http://www.maxpedition.com/store/pc/Rem ... -2p384.htm

That certainly is small... No interest in a low-profile chest rig? SKD usually has some great Eagle rigs I like.

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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 10:21 pm 
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I agree on not running gear that haven't trained with as you don't know the capabilities or the correct use. I haven't trained with breaching rounds myself, but I'm not a cop and I'm never going to need them in my life. If she does get some hands on work with them she'll have a better idea if they'd be useful and if they are something she'd want to carry.

Other then that, don't add too much stuff to the bag. You want to keep it light. It's easy to keep throwing stuff in there that "might be useful" but for quick deployment and to keep from slowing her down better to stick to the essentials. It looks pretty well thought out to me.

She has checked that P Mag for function in her rifle, right?

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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 10:23 pm 
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Kutter_0311 wrote:
That certainly is small... No interest in a low-profile chest rig? SKD usually has some great Eagle rigs I like.

HEY! That's what she said! :evil:

I actually did think quite a bit about doing a chest rig of some kind, but just never found one that seemed right. I had to try and find a balance between battle rattle and first aid / LEO specific tools, which was hard to do in a vest, even one you're building from scratch. A smaller bag that could be quickly grabbed and slung seemed the way to go. Even with the selection of bags out there, though, I wanted to keep the bag small on purpose. Cops are already carrying a ton of shit on their belts, plus body armor. I wanted to have to be very deliberate with what went into the bag, and keeping it smaller means I wasn't tempted to strap 10 mags to it, a FAK that could treat 20 people, 3 backup flashlights, etc. I tried to be realistic about what was already an event (active shooter) that she had a very low probability of ever encountering.

Plus, some of the stuff she would be using in that type of encounter she already carries -- multiple cuffs, flashlights, latex gloves, knife, etc. I'm always open for suggestions, though. Some of her buddies actually do run a tactical type vest as part of their shooter gear. It's an option I'll keep my eye out for.

bufordtjustice wrote:
Also, for the flex cuffs, go ahead and "prep" them for use. That way she can more easily put them on someone one handed. Maybe two sets total of those readily available.

Very good point. I'll do that.

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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 11:52 pm 
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DannusMaximus wrote:
Kutter_0311 wrote:
That certainly is small... No interest in a low-profile chest rig? SKD usually has some great Eagle rigs I like.

HEY! That's what she said! :evil:

I actually did think quite a bit about doing a chest rig of some kind, but just never found one that seemed right. I had to try and find a balance between battle rattle and first aid / LEO specific tools, which was hard to do in a vest, even one you're building from scratch.

This $69 Eagle rig looks like a good platform to start with, and it's actually in stock in LEO Black!

I'd put 2 PMAG's in 1 pouch, put these shotshell cards in another, and a 6" Izzy in the third.

Add some pistol mag pouches and a flat trauma pouch, should be GTG...

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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 12:12 am 
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Kutter_0311 wrote:
DannusMaximus wrote:
Kutter_0311 wrote:
That certainly is small... No interest in a low-profile chest rig? SKD usually has some great Eagle rigs I like.

HEY! That's what she said! :evil:

I actually did think quite a bit about doing a chest rig of some kind, but just never found one that seemed right. I had to try and find a balance between battle rattle and first aid / LEO specific tools, which was hard to do in a vest, even one you're building from scratch.

This $69 Eagle rig looks like a good platform to start with, and it's actually in stock in LEO Black!

I'd put 2 PMAG's in 1 pouch, put these shotshell cards in another, and a 6" Izzy in the third.

Add some pistol mag pouches and a flat trauma pouch, should be GTG...


i have that eagle rig, its very well built. But for an LEO id opt for an open top rig.
like this
http://www.skdtac.com/Eagle_M4_Chest_Ri ... ag.563.htm
or a bandoleer set up, like this ( or an all Molle piece to customize with some open top mag poutches and med gear)
http://www.skdtac.com/Eagle_Patrol_Band ... ag.250.htm
(all molle) http://www.eagleindustries.com/product. ... 715&page=1


some closer pics of the Eagle 6 mag
viewtopic.php?f=107&t=42436&p=877676

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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 1:44 am 
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I think the current bag is much better suited for this role than any type of chest rig or a bigger bag. If she's a first responder at an active shooter event time is critical. She may not have time to grab a bag at all, but if she does have a couple seconds, a bag she can loop over her neck is better then a vest she has to get into or a larger/heavier bag she has to carry.

I think you got it right on the first try for this one.

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