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 Post subject: Poor mans body armor
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:48 pm 
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Hello fellow zombie squad members! I am new to the forum, but have read the forums here for about 6 months now. I first want to say that the forums here at zomebie squad are a great service for the world in preparation and I really appreciate everbodies input.

I know my post about the body armor i am about to explain may sound a little far fetched but bare with me. Please tell me if you think it would be effective or not. I recently bought some German "aramid" armor with a born date of 1995. Now i read up on this aramid armor because i didnt know much about it and found out that aramid is a plastic that spreads out the impact of a bullet and dissipates the energy. The vest is much like a flack vest in nature without plates. Now this is where it gets interesting. Although i trust the German's with their excellent military gear I found the material to be somewhat thin.

Now after this next sentence you can all giggle. I went to Menards and bought some thick plastic flooring material (i think its linolium SP?) Well i talked to the flooring guy first and asked for the best linolium he had that would be puncture proof and be very tough yet flexible enough that it could bend. He showed me some flooring and then i got home and cut out the flooring pieces so that they could fit behind the aramid body armor.The vest has zippers and i used velcro straps so that the cut out pieces would not slide around inside. The total with velcro and flooring it cose me less than 20 bucks. All in all i think this should stop most urban hand gun rounds i would encounter here in Milwaukee. What do you guys think?


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 Post subject: Re: Poor mans body armor
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:19 pm 
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Um...frankly, I wouldn't bet on it, but why don't you do some tests and let us know?

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 Post subject: Re: Poor mans body armor
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:20 pm 
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TDW586 wrote:
Um...frankly, I wouldn't bet on it, but why don't you do some tests and let us know?


Semi-legal disclaimer: Don't WEAR it when you test it....

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 Post subject: Re: Poor mans body armor
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:25 pm 
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Shmerlin wrote:
TDW586 wrote:
Um...frankly, I wouldn't bet on it, but why don't you do some tests and let us know?


Semi-legal disclaimer: Don't WEAR it when you test it....



Good lookin' out, man. Thanks. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Poor mans body armor
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:26 pm 
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I think you're going to end up with linoleum in you gunshot wounds.

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 Post subject: Re: Poor mans body armor
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:36 pm 
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TDW586 wrote:
Shmerlin wrote:
TDW586 wrote:
Um...frankly, I wouldn't bet on it, but why don't you do some tests and let us know?


Semi-legal disclaimer: Don't WEAR it when you test it....



Good lookin' out, man. Thanks. :lol:


No prob

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 Post subject: Re: Poor mans body armor
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:40 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Poor mans body armor
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:08 pm 
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Well linoleum pretty much went out in like the 70's or 80's. Now floring people use a vinyl material. I've worked with it in the past and...I would not put my life on the line with it. I think it could stop a bullet maybe, if you had a piece about a foot or two think. Maybe.

Though on an episode of Mythbusters Jamie used a mesh sheet of bathroom ceramic tiles to stop a bullet. heavy though but sorta proven.
A bullet prof vest is not one of the things to skimp out on money wise. cry once not die once

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 Post subject: Re: Poor mans body armor
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:37 pm 
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Yeah i just figured I would try to beef up the vest by putting something decently solid behind the aramid armor.


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 Post subject: Re: Poor mans body armor
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:54 pm 
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I'm going to assume that you have a German flecktarn vest as sold cheaply surplus. Many were dry cleaned or otherwise abused prior to being sold, so unless you got it new from the wrapper (as a German guy does sell on Ebay), the protective properties are dubious. It would have been kevlar or something like it as the protective matierial. Originally the vests were roughly in league with the older PAGST vests. People have shot them and had them stop one 9mm round only for another to go right through. This is probably because these vests were degraded and abused.

I would not bet my life on one.

For less than 300 dollars you can get a brand new concealable vest from Galls or pay about 650ish and get a IIIA Marom Dolphin with ICW rifle plates from the Izzies.

If you do want to make homemade armor, you'd want to use truck tires. These were used in the past to make "New York Vests" that would sometimes stop .38 RNL or .45 ACP ball in years past (if the stars were aligned right).


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 Post subject: Re: Poor mans body armor
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:18 am 
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Home made armor? ...... I don't see that ending well.......

Be careful with any used armor you don't buy from a reputable source. I had a friend order what he thought was a level 3 Safariland vest off ebay. Turned out the joker who sold it to him replaced the ballistic panels. Someone else mentioned Galls.com, that's a pretty good place to get some reasonably priced armor.

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 Post subject: Re: Poor mans body armor
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:28 am 
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Gatorfarmer wrote:
I'm going to assume that you have a German flecktarn vest as sold cheaply surplus. Many were dry cleaned or otherwise abused prior to being sold, so unless you got it new from the wrapper (as a German guy does sell on Ebay), the protective properties are dubious. It would have been kevlar or something like it as the protective matierial. Originally the vests were roughly in league with the older PAGST vests. People have shot them and had them stop one 9mm round only for another to go right through. This is probably because these vests were degraded and abused.

I would not bet my life on one.

For less than 300 dollars you can get a brand new concealable vest from Galls or pay about 650ish and get a IIIA Marom Dolphin with ICW rifle plates from the Izzies.

If you do want to make homemade armor, you'd want to use truck tires. These were used in the past to make "New York Vests" that would sometimes stop .38 RNL or .45 ACP ball in years past (if the stars were aligned right).


Just out of curiosity, have you seen any tests done on the Israeli armor to verify the protection levels? It seems like one of the best deals going, but I couldn't find much info that wasn't coming from the manufacturer.


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 Post subject: Re: Poor mans body armor
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:35 am 
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drunkensurvivor wrote:
Just out of curiosity, have you seen any tests done on the Israeli armor to verify the protection levels? It seems like one of the best deals going, but I couldn't find much info that wasn't coming from the manufacturer.



As a general rule, I'd say that military surplus body armor = hell no. Militaries the world over abuse the hell out of their gear; left out in the sun, soldiers washing and drying them in washing machines with the panels left in (yes, I've seen it done), not to mention the usual training stuff of crawling through water, mud, and who knows what else. Kevlar doesn't stand up to that for long, and if they're being sold, there's usually a good reason for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Poor mans body armor
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:04 am 
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TDW586 wrote:
drunkensurvivor wrote:
Just out of curiosity, have you seen any tests done on the Israeli armor to verify the protection levels? It seems like one of the best deals going, but I couldn't find much info that wasn't coming from the manufacturer.



As a general rule, I'd say that military surplus body armor = hell no. Militaries the world over abuse the hell out of their gear; left out in the sun, soldiers washing and drying them in washing machines with the panels left in (yes, I've seen it done), not to mention the usual training stuff of crawling through water, mud, and who knows what else. Kevlar doesn't stand up to that for long, and if they're being sold, there's usually a good reason for it.


The stuff we are talking about isn't surplus.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =142290761


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 Post subject: Re: Poor mans body armor
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:27 am 
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drunkensurvivor wrote:
The stuff we are talking about isn't surplus.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =142290761



Oooooh, I see. Well, in that case, I'd say you might be better off with this Point Blank vest for 60 bucks more, Point Blank being a well known and reputable manufacturer. Or a P.A.C.A Level II for 329.00, here.

And there's always the good ole' Galls starting at 369.

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 Post subject: Re: Poor mans body armor
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:58 am 
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I thought aramid was the next big thing in body armor. Please somebody explain the differences in aramid body armor, kevlar, and the other fiberous protection out there.


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 Post subject: Re: Poor mans body armor
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:29 am 
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Don't forget Bullet Proof Me.com!


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 Post subject: Re: Poor mans body armor
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:25 am 
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Gatorfarmer wrote:
Originally the vests were roughly in league with the older PAGST vests. People have shot them and had them stop one 9mm round only for another to go right through. This is probably because these vests were degraded and abused.

I would not bet my life on one.


Nor should you, but I think you're attributing the vest failure to the wrong root cause.

The german Flecktarn vest, as well as the USGI PASGT system, were not designed or fielded for any ballistic protection. They are for frag protection only. They were not NIJ rated, nor was any protection at that level part of the design requirements.

Again, both models of vest are flak vests only. Even a brand new one, stored in ideal conditions, should not be trusted to stop any centerfire bullet.

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 Post subject: Re: Poor mans body armor
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:47 am 
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Its based on application of the armor...anti zombie, anti small arms, or anti tank...

I got me some of this here from a buddy I can't talk about

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work well :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Poor mans body armor
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:55 am 
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Hey, is that a standalone SAPI IV plate? I ask because I zoomed in on the back and the only words I can make out are "In conjunction with.."

Usually that means the plate doesn't do dick for stopping anything unless it's backed by IIIA soft armor, which is a common thing for SAPI plates.

Standalone plates are a bit more hard to find.

Just trying to make sure you dont end up with a chest full of lead and pottery...

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 Post subject: Re: Poor mans body armor
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:25 pm 
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crypto wrote:
Hey, is that a standalone SAPI IV plate? I ask because I zoomed in on the back and the only words I can make out are "In conjunction with.."

Usually that means the plate doesn't do dick for stopping anything unless it's backed by IIIA soft armor, which is a common thing for SAPI plates.

Standalone plates are a bit more hard to find.

Just trying to make sure you dont end up with a chest full of lead and pottery...



i make it difficult to read for a reason, I'm not technically supposed to have it :lol:

anyway, it takes 7.62 nato x10 before it needs to be replaced...I know for a fact it can take 5.56 nato without an issue


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 Post subject: Re: Poor mans body armor
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:06 pm 
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milwaukeezombie wrote:
I thought aramid was the next big thing in body armor. Please somebody explain the differences in aramid body armor, kevlar, and the other fiberous protection out there.
Typically when people use the term "aramid" in conjunction with body armor, they're usually just talking about kevlar. Kevlar is a DuPont trademark so if the company is sourcing the same material from another vendor it gets called "aramid." Technically aramids are actually a large class of synthetic fibers that includes kevlar, twaron, and nomex.

About the only other fiber that comes up these days is Spectra. Spectra slowly degrades when it gets wet and that causes problems with vests that use it. Avoid them.


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 Post subject: Re: Poor mans body armor
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:48 pm 
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Novesh wrote:

i make it difficult to read for a reason, I'm not technically supposed to have it :lol:


Well, youre not supposed to have stolen property, and since you can already read who the manufacturer is, you're really not helping your OPSEC out any. Its apparent that you have a restricted item.

Honestly I don't care where you got it from, lots of people have armor that fell off the back of a truck. I'm just asking if its a standalone plate, because it sure doesn't look like one. Re-read the matrix on the right of the plate and make sure that the stated protection levels aren't "when used in conjunction with IIIA armor panels".

Novesh wrote:
anyway, it takes 7.62 nato x10 before it needs to be replaced...I know for a fact it can take 5.56 nato without an issue


Thats good. Is that so you can absorb the fire while your SO assembles the NEF .300 Winmag?

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Last edited by crypto on Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Poor mans body armor
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:10 pm 
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I'm surprised no one has talked about cutting down their own steel plates. Wouldn't that be relatively less retarded?

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