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 Post subject: Stack On safe Problem!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:26 am 
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I was downstairs, organizing some things and had to open my cabinet/safe. I have an 8 long gun cabinet with a pistol/ammo cabinet bolted to the top of it. I bought the long gun safe about a year ago and the handgun safe recently. One key is specifically marked, by me so I know which safe each key goes to. The problem is, I realized that the keys, even though sold with different safes, nearly a year apart have the same serial # on them and are interchangable between the boxes! Fuck! what do I do at this point? this is bad right?
-FreuderLocks

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:33 am 
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Same thing happens with Craftsman tool boxes.

Drill holes and mount a lock for an external lock as well?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:39 am 
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v3rs3 wrote:
Same thing happens with Craftsman tool boxes.

Drill holes and mount a lock for an external lock as well?



How about plural mounts then a steel rod with a lock at the bottom end, so one would have to remove the safe from the floor to then slide the rod out (if you could get it that high, or even off the floor).?

This pisses me off, Its not like i wasnt on the way to a heavier safe (real safe) and just keeping my ammo and shite in the locker, but seriously? Fuck you Stack On.
-Freuderlocks

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:42 am 
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How many possible unique keys for a set number of tumblers do you think are possible? It's not infinite, that's for sure.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:42 am 
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To be honest, I really wouldn't worry about it too much.

It would only be a problem if someone broke in, found your safes, and had a set of "Stack On" keys. It would just save him a little time in that he could try the same key in both safes.

In the unlikely event that someone picked the lock on one safe, the fact that the other safe has the same key really wouldn't help him pick the lock on that safe.

More likely is someone trying a brute force attack against the safe with tools or power tools and then the fact that they are keyed alike wouldn't matter.

For me, I'd just use one key for both safes and store the extra key someplace *very* secure and hidden to use as a spare if you ever lost the key. (Obviously don't put it anywhere where someone else would find it to use to open your safe. If you have an off-site safe deposit box that would be perfect, bu even hiding it in a small box in the attic or in a pill container mixed in with your toolbox in your garage or something like that would probably be good enough).

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:50 am 
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I just put together one of those 8-gun cabinets for my basement, and the lock mechanism wouldn't be hard to replace. I wonder if Stack On would be willing to exchange one of your locksets if you explained your concern to them?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:57 am 
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Yeah I wouldn't even worry about it b/c a crow bar could tear the doors off those things easy as pie in the first place.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:00 am 
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Ehh, not like a Stack On safe is going to keep anyone out for very long anyway. At least mine, couple seconds with some power tools or a minute with a big crowbar and I could break mine open.

I'd look at the installing a secondary lock on the exterior and make the whole thing a bit stronger in the process. Assuming you have one of the cheaper thinner [url]http://www.cabelas.com/p-0005602.shtml]"cabinets"[/url] that I have, mines the 14 gun model IIRC.

Can always check craigslist for a new safe also.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:30 am 
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Sckitzo wrote:
Ehh, not like a Stack On safe is going to keep anyone out for very long anyway. At least mine, couple seconds with some power tools or a minute with a big crowbar and I could break mine open.


This.
Those are designed to fulfill the requirement to keep firearms away from minors, and they do a good job of that. They are not safes, they are locking metal cabinets.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:14 am 
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Sounds to me like you got lucky . :D

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:19 pm 
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mk_ultra wrote:
Sounds to me like you got lucky . :D


Thats exactly what I was thinking. :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:43 pm 
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The same thing will happen with any key. If you take your car key and go try other cars from the same brand eventually you will find one that it works in.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:17 pm 
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phil_in_cs wrote:
Sckitzo wrote:
Ehh, not like a Stack On safe is going to keep anyone out for very long anyway. At least mine, couple seconds with some power tools or a minute with a big crowbar and I could break mine open.


This.
Those are designed to fulfill the requirement to keep firearms away from minors, and they do a good job of that. They are not safes, they are locking metal cabinets.


Whole heartedly agree - this was the reason mine was purchased - to appease those that needed it.

NXP


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:29 pm 
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phil_in_cs wrote:
Those are designed to fulfill the requirement to keep firearms away from minors, and they do a good job of that. They are not safes, they are locking metal cabinets.


+2

It just another protective layer to keep friends / family / police out of your gear.

Also in CA the man requires you to have DOJ approved locking container, or you have to buy a cable lock when you buy a long gun, or lower.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:33 pm 
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northernxposure wrote:
phil_in_cs wrote:
Sckitzo wrote:
Ehh, not like a Stack On safe is going to keep anyone out for very long anyway. At least mine, couple seconds with some power tools or a minute with a big crowbar and I could break mine open.


This.
Those are designed to fulfill the requirement to keep firearms away from minors, and they do a good job of that. They are not safes, they are locking metal cabinets.


Whole heartedly agree - this was the reason mine was purchased - to appease those that needed it.

NXP


Pretty much agree... even tho some of the Sentry/Stack-On ones are fancier and sold as "safes" instead of "lockers". There is a video on you tube showing a couple of untrained goons prying open the doors on one of the more expensive Sentry brand safes in less than 4 minutes with just two basic pry bars.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:38 am 
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joro wrote:
mk_ultra wrote:
Sounds to me like you got lucky . :D


Thats exactly what I was thinking. :lol:



I'd love mine to be that way. No need to mark a key for a certain one. Just grab it and go.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:28 am 
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eugene wrote:
The same thing will happen with any key. If you take your car key and go try other cars from the same brand eventually you will find one that it works in.


Not my Honda. But I get the Idea.
-FreuderLocks

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:30 am 
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I have them because of the "safe firearm storage law" here in Denver.

These things only keep honest people honest (for a little while) to quote a member.

I was just kind of torqued because I honestly thought that crapbox would be atleast a bit more secure.

Would you like to stuff your irons in my crapbox? Quote of the day.

-FreuderLocks

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:51 am 
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Stack-On does make some good safes, but i would stay away from the Sentry and gun-cabinet lower end models

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:58 am 
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MacabeeSicarius wrote:
i would stay away from the Sentry and gun-cabinet lower end models


Why?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:28 am 
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you can easily defeat them with simple hand tools (a flat head screwdriver, for instance) that's why.

the higher end Stack-On safes feature a combo lock w/ triple dead-bolt, drill resistant plate, internal hinges, etc.

you need a good chunk of time with a torch and/or noisy power tools to get into one.

or you could create a shaped charge with a plastic explosive (like Semtex or Comp B) to get into one, but i dont think your average burglar would attempt that. if they have access to that stuff, they probably wouldn't need to steal your weapons in the first place.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:45 am 
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MacabeeSicarius wrote:
you can easily defeat them with simple hand tools (a flat head screwdriver, for instance) that's why.

the higher end Stack-On safes feature a combo lock w/ triple dead-bolt, drill resistant plate, internal hinges, etc.

you need a good chunk of time with a torch and/or noisy power tools to get into one.

or you could create a shaped charge with a plastic explosive (like Semtex or Comp B) to get into one, but i dont think your average burglar would attempt that. if they have access to that stuff, they probably wouldn't need to steal your weapons in the first place.


Then I think you're buying a screwdriver to turn a nut.

Buy the right tool for the right task, dude.

Firearm CABINETS are not SAFES nor are they INTENDED to be safes.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:48 pm 
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The location of the hinges on a safe is a non-issue. Internal hinges are not any more secure than external hinges. In fact external hinges are arguably better at slowing down an inexperienced theif.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:00 pm 
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joro wrote:
The location of the hinges on a safe is a non-issue. Internal hinges are not any more secure than external hinges. In fact external hinges are arguably better at slowing down an inexperienced theif.


Can you expand on the hinge thing? I know next to nothing about hinges but it would seem the benefit of having more difficult access to the hinge would be a boon. I assume if it's a ext hinge then it's going to be reinforced but beyond that why would it (arguably) be better? Not trying to call you out or anything, just generally curious.

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