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 Post subject: 20mm Ammo question.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:51 pm 
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First lets get the jokes out of the way. Yes I am considering getting an Anzio Ironworks 20mm Cannon. Yes I am aware how weird, expensive and awesome that is.

However, I need people to let me know the realistic situation in acquiring (legally) 20mm ammo for use in said monster. So I call on the collective wisdom of the respective gun-gods here in this forum to bestow on me your knowledge!

And... go!

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 Post subject: Re: 20mm Ammo question.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:51 pm 
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The 20mm take-down from Anzio is a Destructive Device, so keep that in mind. IIRC anything .50 is flat out illegal in California if it isn't "preregistered" prior to the big ban. But as far as acquiring the ammo elsewhere? I believe you can buy it from anywhere that sells it, just like any other ammo, except for (someone will correct me if I'm wrong) the 20mm AP or incendiary rounds. Training rounds are about $10 a piece, tracers $15-ish. If you really intend to get into this, like most of the giant caliber rifles you'd be well advised to look into reloading. Basically, if you plan to fire more than 100 rounds, ever, it'd be more economical to just buy the specialty equipment to reload.

If there isn't a square answer on here for sure, I'll call up a friend of mine who has a couple of the huge bore rifles and find out.


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 Post subject: Re: 20mm Ammo question.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:03 pm 
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Things to consider:

You will have to get a Destructive Device tax stamp on this. Make sure that's legal in your state and find out the actual procedures to follow to get ATF approval.

Where will you shoot this? It's hard enough to find ranges that allow .50 BMG. I imagine it's even harder to find places to shoot a 20mm.

For ammo, you will be limited to non-explosive rounds. Any explosive rounds would require a $200 tax per round, if you could find any for sale to civvies.

I'm not saying don't do it, I'm just saying, where are you going to shoot this and how will you afford to pay for the ammo?

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 Post subject: Re: 20mm Ammo question.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:04 pm 
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are you getting the single shot or the mag feed model?
ammo is avail from anzio for 15$ per round and a min order required.
once you get the cannon w/tax stamp you can shop around. i've seen ammo for 30$ per round or 2500$ per 300 round case. and that's standard AP rounds. API or HE will probably require an ATF approval letter.
cannon=7000/single, 1200/mag
tax stamp=200
ammo=2500
9700$ for a single shot or 14700$ for mag feed, wow what a deal....

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 Post subject: Re: 20mm Ammo question.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:52 pm 
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Yes I think Reloading would be the best case for this sort of thing. A few points brought up.

20mm = Destructive Device, oh yea, I know. $200 Dollar stamp, weird looks from my local officials, but I can get it.

So yes, I am merely looking at the moment. I have a local range that will, believe it or not, let me fire the darn thing there. I asked. The range officer thought I was joking at first until my friends shook their head and indicated I was serious. They had to check the rules.

In MD It's not illegal to own this. As long as it's approved by the ATF the state police will sign off on it, they tend to figure if you're ok with the ATF you're ok with them.

.. I wonder where one even goes to find brass for this kind of thing. Never the less the reloading equipment and dies needed for 20mm ammo. Huh.

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 Post subject: Re: 20mm Ammo question.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:57 pm 
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Urban Core wrote:
Yes I think Reloading would be the best case for this sort of thing. A few points brought up.

20mm = Destructive Device, oh yea, I know. $200 Dollar stamp, weird looks from my local officials, but I can get it.

So yes, I am merely looking at the moment. I have a local range that will, believe it or not, let me fire the darn thing there. I asked. The range officer thought I was joking at first until my friends shook their head and indicated I was serious. They had to check the rules.

In MD It's not illegal to own this. As long as it's approved by the ATF the state police will sign off on it, they tend to figure if you're ok with the ATF you're ok with them.

.. I wonder where one even goes to find brass for this kind of thing. Never the less the reloading equipment and dies needed for 20mm ammo. Huh.


Brass you can find. I have one round of 20mm brass, don't remember where I got it. CTD has dummies in brass, but they're novelty priced so too spendy to be worth reloading. But the brass had to come from somewhere...

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 Post subject: Re: 20mm Ammo question.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:24 am 
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http://www.ch4d.com/ Dies - I believe you want the 2" set for the Vulcan M103, easiest way to find it is the search box under reloading dies
http://www.bigskysurplus.com/20MM.htm Primed, unprimed, new, and fired brass, bullets, and primers
http://islandgroup.com/ordnance/20mm_ammunition.html More components
http://www.angelfire.com/mo/brashco/page2.html More components


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 Post subject: Re: 20mm Ammo question.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:23 am 
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"20mm Rifle - For when you want to make the .50 BMG owners feel like pussies."

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 Post subject: Re: 20mm Ammo question.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:31 am 
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Jeriah wrote:
Brass you can find. I have one round of 20mm brass, don't remember where I got it. CTD has dummies in brass, but they're novelty priced so too spendy to be worth reloading. But the brass had to come from somewhere...

New rulings, all brass over .50 cal must be mutilated (on site or witnessed) according to DoD regs. There is a thread about this...
Not to say you can't get it, just that it will be harder.

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 Post subject: Re: 20mm Ammo question.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:36 am 
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Price ONLY $11,900* From their website. Did you find a used one in a pawn shop? Win lotto? Can I ask why you would want one? I like the suppressor option for 3200.

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Few thousand 5.56mm, ~2k 9mm, Some assorted .243, 30-06, .303 British, 7.62x54R, A couple hundred 12g, and 60K+ of .22lr.


Travis, I thought it would be bigger.
Reeearrr!


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 Post subject: Re: 20mm Ammo question.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:39 am 
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DropZedFred wrote:
Jeriah wrote:
Brass you can find. I have one round of 20mm brass, don't remember where I got it. CTD has dummies in brass, but they're novelty priced so too spendy to be worth reloading. But the brass had to come from somewhere...

New rulings, all brass over .50 cal must be mutilated (on site or witnessed) according to DoD regs. There is a thread about this...
Not to say you can't get it, just that it will be harder.


Sooo...buy it now? Or at least buy the ammo now, and re-use your brass?

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 Post subject: Re: 20mm Ammo question.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:31 pm 
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There are non-milsurp sources for the brass, so it isn't as if it's going to just disappear. See my links earlier in the thread :)


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 Post subject: Re: 20mm Ammo question.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:57 pm 
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OR, why not join the service and you can play with a fully automatic one for the low price of your soul and a good chunk of your life! :lol:

But the benefits are great.


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 Post subject: Re: 20mm Ammo question.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:24 pm 
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do ti! and take pictures! Man if i could i would.

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 Post subject: Re: 20mm Ammo question.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:03 am 
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Trebor wrote:
Where will you shoot this? It's hard enough to find ranges that allow .50 BMG. I imagine it's even harder to find places to shoot a 20mm.


A friend of my older brother actually had to buy his own land and create his own private range just to fire stuff like that.... bought all the land for X number of miles around it, set it up legally, etc. Giant hassle and a tidal wave of paperwork. But his gun collection is probably in the thousands, so it's a major chunk of his life.

On the plus side, every lawyer, politician, doctor, etc in the area who's into big guns comes to his place, and companies even do some ballistics testing there. Knowing this guy, the range probably makes him a profit... everything else he's involved with turns a profit.

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 Post subject: Re: 20mm Ammo question.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:11 pm 
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I've gone through this before; it's not that bad.

PM me your phone number and let's talk.

Mulling a 20mm to go with his 57mm and 82mm,

Mike

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 Post subject: Re: 20mm Ammo question.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:37 pm 
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after googling the cost of this.. i am truly poor. i would choose the cheap version and get 2 glock 10mm.. :lol: :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: 20mm Ammo question.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:00 pm 
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Im just wondering, if the gun/cannon is classed as a DD, would that mean youd have to pay $200 per round?, I know you do if it has any form of warhead.

Also, please correct me if im wrong, but cant anyone with a DD (whether it is a 20mm or 105mm..etc) buy ammo from a manufacturer?

General dynamics make new training rounds for the 20mm vulcan (which are KE-no warheads)

link: http://www.gd-ots.com/

its under medium caliber ammunition.

again, please correct me if im wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: 20mm Ammo question.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:10 pm 
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Urban Core wrote:
I wonder where one even goes to find brass for this kind of thing.


Find somebody who has a boat. With a couple of CIWS on it.

:twisted: :lol: :twisted: :lol: :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: 20mm Ammo question.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:12 pm 
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Trebor wrote:
"20mm Rifle - For when you want to make the .50 BMG owners feel like pussies."


It's a never-ending progression.

I've got a slightly nuts friend who wants me to put a 37mm antitank gun under my roofed deck. Sure, it's a big deck, but still.

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 Post subject: Re: 20mm Ammo question.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:28 pm 
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SMoAF wrote:
Urban Core wrote:
I wonder where one even goes to find brass for this kind of thing.


Find somebody who has a boat. With a couple of CIWS on it.

:twisted: :lol: :twisted: :lol: :twisted:


CIWS has electro primers, dont know if they are the same brass wise. Although Anzio will make guns for those rounds IIRC. Theyre phasing out DU rounds for CIWS with Tungsten so it wont be so hazardous to collect them anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: 20mm Ammo question.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:59 pm 
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Urban Core wrote:
Yes I think Reloading would be the best case for this sort of thing. A few points brought up.

20mm = Destructive Device, oh yea, I know. $200 Dollar stamp, weird looks from my local officials, but I can get it.

So yes, I am merely looking at the moment. I have a local range that will, believe it or not, let me fire the darn thing there. I asked. The range officer thought I was joking at first until my friends shook their head and indicated I was serious. They had to check the rules.

In MD It's not illegal to own this. As long as it's approved by the ATF the state police will sign off on it, they tend to figure if you're ok with the ATF you're ok with them.

.. I wonder where one even goes to find brass for this kind of thing. Never the less the reloading equipment and dies needed for 20mm ammo. Huh.


Are you talking about Delmarva Sporting Clays? That's the only place I can think of in MD that would allow a 20mm. Check over at www.mdshooters.com for more localized info.

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 Post subject: Re: 20mm Ammo question.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:30 pm 
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SMoAF wrote:
...a boat. With a couple of CIWS on it.
Just in case someone's reading along and wondering what CIWS ("Sea Whiz", if you want to sound like one of the cool kids) is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18G5ycZf-rc

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 Post subject: Re: 20mm Ammo question.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:34 pm 
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GMZ wrote:
SMoAF wrote:
Urban Core wrote:
I wonder where one even goes to find brass for this kind of thing.

Find somebody who has a boat. With a couple of CIWS on it.

CIWS has electro primers, dont know if they are the same brass wise. Although Anzio will make guns for those rounds IIRC. Theyre phasing out DU rounds for CIWS with Tungsten so it wont be so hazardous to collect them anymore.


Back in the day, when the .50 bmg people were the insane recoil junkies to the normal folks, I knew a guy who had a PTRD rechambered from the old Soviet 14.5 round to 20mm vulcan. He used spent brass that I'm pretty sure came from the CIWS. I think he swaged the primer pockets out or something, but I'm not sure of the details, but I know for a fact that he converted the brass from electric primed to percussion primed. I fired the damned thing, and it didn't have a battery attached.

Oh, and as far as the DU thing: IIRC, he hosed the spent casings out with a hose before he reloaded them.

:shock: :o :lol: :o :shock:

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