The loss of over the air television.

[BullOnParade]

I'm sitting here watching tv, and a local channel announces they're shutting down their analogue transmitters in certain areas, a sign of changing times. Does this effect our availability to information in a disaster? I don't know very much about the inner workings of cable/satellite companies, but I know both are subject to dropped signals at times when there is no apparent reason (I've seen the cable go out on an evening with no adverse weather conditions in the area, I've seen satellites fail [often more for hardware issues] in similar conditions), and needless to say in storms of medium-high intensity. So are these technologies susceptible in times of chaos?

At my BOL, I'm hooked up to cable, with an over the air antenna as backup. At last count, the over the air received five channels, nothing amazing, but local news, weather, and in a disaster access to important information. I know at least one of those channels has gone digital, and I believe a second was bought out by the first, now I think a third is about to stop transmitting from an over the air tower (not sure if the tower in question is the one I pick up).

My largest concern with relying on the cable provider is there is now a middle man with a secondary line of infrastructure I need to rely on to receive the information I need, at a time when the infrastructure is likely to be under severe stress. Is it time to switch the antenna to digital? Can anyone with experience with a digital TV antenna give me some insight on the finer points?

What are others relying on as far as televised information in a disaster?

P.S. I do have access to AM, FM, WB, VHF, HAM radios, internet (though, with the same cable provider), cellphone [with 3g data] and smoke signals at the BOL.

[DJH]

Well, I can tell you don't rely on the cable for sure - They still get their signal from satellite.

I had a digital box on one TV for a while, It just plugged in between the TV and the wall, and it seemed to work fine to me. Cost about $40, took about a minute to set up.

In a disaster, I think if there's no TV signal, I'm just gonna head for my BOL (if my area is affected) - I have access to Sat. Internet there, and all the necessary radio stuff. (crank & solar powered.)

[duodecima]

This got discussed a bit when the US switched from analogue to digital a few years back. (Is that why your analogue transmitters are going?)

1) With analogue, when the signal gets weak (at the edge of its radius, or in a shadow) it just gets fuzzy, but you can still get some picture and sound (frequently not enjoyable for movies, but you could get the gist of what was going on, data wise) With digital, when the signal gets weak, you get nothing. This means some folks out on the edges of a broadcast area couldn't get as many channels as they had before.

2) With analogue, emergency radios could at least pick up the SOUND from TV stations, which in an emergency would give you a lot of data also. I am told you might still be able to pick up the audio from TV IF you can plug a digital converter box (from the TV) into your emergency radio. I confess to having No Idea how I would do that for my emergency radio.

[BullOnParade]

This got discussed a bit when the US switched from analogue to digital a few years back. (Is that why your analogue transmitters are going?)

1) With analogue, when the signal gets weak (at the edge of its radius, or in a shadow) it just gets fuzzy, but you can still get some picture and sound (frequently not enjoyable for movies, but you could get the gist of what was going on, data wise) With digital, when the signal gets weak, you get nothing. This means some folks out on the edges of a broadcast area couldn't get as many channels as they had before.

2) With analogue, emergency radios could at least pick up the SOUND from TV stations, which in an emergency would give you a lot of data also. I am told you might still be able to pick up the audio from TV IF you can plug a digital converter box (from the TV) into your emergency radio. I confess to having No Idea how I would do that for my emergency radio.

I'm not sure where we stand on the switch, all TV was supposed to switch to digital last summer, but having cable through my apartment, I didn't have to research it because the signal is switched and processed by the cable company. People who receive over the air transmissions had to pay for a service, buy a tv with a digital receiver, or buy an external receiver. As I understood, the over the air signal was being switched to digital, and the digital receiver (either built into newer televisions or added to older televisions) was necessary to unscramble the signal. The transmitter in question is being shut down due to operating costs (its a public television channel, like CBS). I guess I'll find out the next time I'm up at in the area if the transmission is still coming in, or if this was the tower I was receiving a transmission from).

Picking up audio from the TV would be a very cool skill to have. I'm going to make a point of learning how this is done (either analogue or digital, both would be best). At the very least, running a radio sounds more energy efficient than running a TV, which would be important if running from battery banks or generator power.

[DarkAxel]

I think your situation is a perfect illustration as to why someone should have backups to gather information.

Aside from the Internet, I've got a TV with a digital converter box, a home stereo system, a battery operated portable stereo, the radio in my truck, and a hand crank emergency radio. I'd like to add ham or CB capabilities just in case, but I'm concentrating on other preps ATM.

[BullOnParade]

I should note, that my BOL is my parent's home, and the HAM radios are not mine, buy my stepdad's. I do not have HAM credentials, or any experience with the radios.

[Tater Raider]

I should note, that my BOL is my parent's home, and the HAM radios are not mine, buy my stepdad's. I do not have HAM credentials, or any experience with the radios.

You'd have to look up the channel to see what frequency they broadcast audio on, then just tune to that freq. and you get to listen to TV on your radio.

[zommoz10]

Information???

From the teevee???

That's a good one.

[Tater Raider]

Information???

From the teevee???

That's a good one.

Freq. List & Other Info

[crypto]

I should note, that my BOL is my parent's home, and the HAM radios are not mine, buy my stepdad's. I do not have HAM credentials, or any experience with the radios.

You'd have to look up the channel to see what frequency they broadcast audio on, then just tune to that freq. and you get to listen to TV on your radio.

Negative, the analog TV audio went away when the signal went digital. ATSC digital OTA broadcasts use AC-3 audio. You can no longer get them with a VHF FM tuner.

[crypto]

Ive found that digital broadcasts go much further than the analog ones, but as others have noted, fringe reception is either 'you get it and it looks almost perfect' or 'you dont get it at all'.

The digital datastream is much easier to pick up out of noise than analog waveforms, so the transmission range for any given tower is boosted considerably, but if the receiving unit cannot get enough of the signal to put together a picture, it just doesnt work, period.

As I said in the last post, all of those emergency radios with TV-band audio no longer work, since the audio signal on TV is now encoded with AC-3.

Now, that said, battery powered digital format TV's are under $50, so it wont break the bank to get one:

http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Prism-Por ... digital+tv

ETA: Nevermind, get this one instead: http://www.amazon.com/RCA-7%2522-Portab ... digital+tv

[raptor]

I bought one of these instead of a portable digital TV. I simply plug it into the USB port of my laptop and it will run for about 2 hours before my laptop needs to charge the battery. It can plug into an external antenna.

http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hvr850.html

[BullOnParade]

I bought one of these instead of a portable digital TV. I simply plug it into the USB port of my laptop and it will run for about 2 hours before my laptop needs to charge the battery. It can plug into an external antenna.

http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hvr850.html

So on external antennas, are you running a digital antenna, or analogue antenna and use this box to decode the signal?

[crypto]

While this question wasnt asked of me, an antenna is an antenna. I tune my regular full-size ATSC HDTV with a pair of rabbit ears and they work great.

some older antennas with integrated signal amps will dick up a digital signal, but a non-amplified antenna will work fine. Digital TV uses the same frequencies as the old NTSC analog TV signal.

[KJ4VOV]

Digital TV uses the same frequencies as the old NTSC analog TV signal.

Technically true but somewhat misleading. They are using the same frequency bands but for the most part have been shifted to different parts of those bands.

Also, I'm curious about the two portable TV's you suggested... why did you change your mind about the first and recommend the second? Looking at the first I see it's a well recognized and respected brand, has a built-in stand which the second does not, uses a detachable (thus replaceable) antenna, and is almost $10 cheaper.

[raptor]

The adapter came with a small whip antenna.

[Radio guy]

In all but one or two Designated Market Areas, VHF channel 2 through 6 have been vacated and will be auctioned off by the FCC. Many areas have migrated to UHF, otherwise the specific TV channels are exactly the same.
Radio Guy

Digital TV uses the same frequencies as the old NTSC analog TV signal.

Technically true but somewhat misleading. They are using the same frequency bands but for the most part have been shifted to different parts of those bands.

Also, I'm curious about the two portable TV's you suggested... why did you change your mind about the first and recommend the second? Looking at the first I see it's a well recognized and respected brand, has a built-in stand which the second does not, uses a detachable (thus replaceable) antenna, and is almost $10 cheaper.

[crypto]

Digital TV uses the same frequencies as the old NTSC analog TV signal.

Technically true but somewhat misleading. They are using the same frequency bands but for the most part have been shifted to different parts of those bands.

Also, I'm curious about the two portable TV's you suggested... why did you change your mind about the first and recommend the second? Looking at the first I see it's a well recognized and respected brand, has a built-in stand which the second does not, uses a detachable (thus replaceable) antenna, and is almost $10 cheaper.

I think you got the links out of order, maybe? I changed from the first (digital prism) to the second (RCA) for all of those reasons.

The coax F connector on the RCA is what really sold it for me.

[KJ4VOV]

Digital TV uses the same frequencies as the old NTSC analog TV signal.

Technically true but somewhat misleading. They are using the same frequency bands but for the most part have been shifted to different parts of those bands.

Also, I'm curious about the two portable TV's you suggested... why did you change your mind about the first and recommend the second? Looking at the first I see it's a well recognized and respected brand, has a built-in stand which the second does not, uses a detachable (thus replaceable) antenna, and is almost $10 cheaper.

I think you got the links out of order, maybe? I changed from the first (digital prism) to the second (RCA) for all of those reasons.

The coax F connector on the RCA is what really sold it for me.

I guess I did get them out of order.

Oh, and I bought the RCA. Thanks for the link.

[BullOnParade]

I wonder how that RCA would work out mounted or left in the jeep. I'm sure the winters would be somewhat hard on it, but I'm in a parking garage most of the time, and a tv (with antenna) would offer great morale if stranded in the vehicle - which most of my auto preps are based on.

[Tater Raider]

Why not get yourself a handheld TV?

[nacho]

What are others relying on as far as televised information in a disaster?

I stopped watching TV about 5 years ago, so that isn't a problem. My DSL is fairly secure since it runs underground from my place to the exchange a few blocks away. This past December we had a huge windstorm and lost power / cable for about five days. Since my phone/DLS lines are underground and the exchange's back up systems stayed online, and since I have back up systems for my network I never lost my link to the web. Most people's sat dishes were damaged or knocked off in the wind, and I don't know anyone that had cable since it is all run overhead.

My alternative to TV is KFI news/talk radio. In Southern California we are blessed to have a 500,000 watt clear-channel station on AM 640, a remnant of the CONELRAD system. During their evening talk show they have listeners call in from Arizona, Utah, Hawaii, etc. who are listening over the air. So they have a really strong signal anywhere in the Los Angeles area.

During local disasters, earthquakes, wild fires, riots, KFI suspends all their regular programming and do 24 hour local news, and they have IMO the best on scene reporters. They are one of the main reasons I stopped watching TV news because KFI's coverage is so in depth it destroyed the TV soundbite news. They are also one of the highest rated stations in the market so they make sure they are on the air at all times. Several years ago a plane crashed into their TX tower, and they were able to switch over to a secondary location in minutes. So as far as regional news they are my go to.

The best way IMO to get local info is a scanner, you will know really fast what is going down and where.

[Tater Raider]

50,000, not 500,000 Watts, is the legal limit in the US for a radio station.

I'm got one of those out of Des Moines (growing up every now and then Cuba would jam it) and in the Jeep thanks to satelite radio I also have BBC, CNN, FOX, and some others. September will see a CB with NOAA Weather being installed, October I'm getting an HT 70cm/2m, and a smart phone with docking station for Dusty is planned for November so I can get weather radar feeds. At that point I'll feel like I've got the basics covered.

[Blacksmith]

I think we have watched more TV in the last week or so (Olympics) than in the past year. I DVR shows if I think I might like them or learn something from them. Sometimes we watch the news or even movies.

This summer my older son was at camp. The kids were playing some kind of guessing game. He did fine until they started asking questions about current TV shows lol. He had never heard of ANY of the SITCOMs, police shows or drama shows on any of the networks. He told them his favorite show was Mythbusters since it was the only one he could recall. WIN!

Honestly I could not tell you about any of them either.

For emergency news and reporting we use -
- Scanner
- Cell Phone/ text
- TV
- Internet (for weather threats this is number one)

TV is already third on the list.