Motorcycle noob needs advice (multiple questions)

by **jeepinbandtrider** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:25 pm

Also on top of that with the lighter sport(ish) bikes you generally get better suspension, brakes, and frames than their cruiser counterparts.

I've ridden Maxims and SECAs and CBs and the newer generation of small-mid displacement bikes blows them out of the water in all respects. You'd be had pressed to sell heavier bikes touted as stopping better or even carrying a passenger better to folks who know what they are doing on a bike.

by **Blacksmith** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:02 pm

IDK, my V2K has great brakes. It has dual discs upfront which gives a slightly better stopping distance than the wife's V900. Besides the fact that my bike is twice her weight and I am also nearly so. Either way both are much better than a car.

"Better" frame is relative and form follow function. Most sport bikes do have better suspension but that is a form/ function thing also. My cruiser literally can not exceed certain angles due to the size of the bike before I start plowing the road.

by **jeepinbandtrider** » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:03 pm

Very true. I drag the floor boards a lot on my dad's Stratoliner when I take get a wild hair and want to ride a cruiser for a bit.

by **Ansgar** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:32 pm

Mrs. Ansgar and I have been looking back over the thread and doing more research on the subject. She has started looking more at pictures of different motorcycles and really likes the way the Honda Goldwing looks, specifically the hard storage compartments and the passenger seat integration. We are leaning toward waiting until we move to NC to actually purchase, at which time I will try to find a touring bike and, once she gets a job out there, a truck for me for when it would be unsafe for me to ride or if I need to transport the bike in case it is inoperable or otherwise needs to be moved without being ridden.

Is this a sound plan? I haven't seen a touring bike below I think 1300cc and am concerned that at that displacement I may not get the fuel economy benefits I was hoping for. Does anyone know of any models that have (or are compatible with) larger backrests and hard case storage? Am I just a complete moron on this or might I be on to something here?

Thanks for the replies thus far and I look forward to everyone's input on this.

by **zxd9** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:42 pm

Bigger engines don't necessarily mean really bad mpg. I've seen 1400cc sport bikes averaging over 35mpg. A Goldwing is a big bike if this is your first. Try something a little smaller for a year to get the hang of riding. A cruiser like a Honda Shadow 1100 or a standard like Yamaha FZ1. Get something to start with that doesn't have a lot of plastic to break if you drop it. I'm not trying to be negative but the saying goes, "It's not if, but when you're going to fall down". I didn't happen to me until 35000 miles but it happened.

For wet weather I bought a cheap walmart two piece rain suit. Worked fine and kept me 95% dry. Bottom of pants and neck were the two places I might get wet. I rode year 'round as long as there wasn't ice on the road (GA doesn't see much snow).

by **PistolPete** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:50 pm

jamoni wrote:That's not what you said before. You said it stops FASTER. That is very different from saying it stops more controllably with two riders.

It's a lot more complicated than either of you suggest. Most light bikes stop slower (meaning they take longer to decelerate) than heavier bikes because light bikes are equipped with crappier brakes. That is until you get to the sportbikes and naked standards. But those little 250's often run drum brakes. I can outstop a 300lb Rebel 250 on my vrod any day because my vrod has superior brakes and the traction to allow serious acceleration and deceleration. Throw skinny tires in the mix and light bikes get worse. My KLR isn't heavy at all, but it sucks at stopping because it barely takes anything to lock up the skinny knobby tires.

If you are going to carry a passenger, avoid the 250's. If you're going to spend any time (more than 10 minutes at a time) on the highway, avoid the 250's except the Ninja, which can manage it.

Used bikes that are very light and low seat heights I haven't seen mentioned are the SV-650 and the Ducati Monster 600 and 620. Both have enough power to be entertaining, do road trips and carry a passenger but you aren't going to wheelie just by giving it too much gas. And they are both light, close to some of the 250 bikes. I had an SV for a while and it was nearly the perfect city bike I thought.

Good luck looking!

by **Vicarious_Lee** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:01 pm

The stopping champions of the cycle worls are quality cruiser-style bikes with quality brakes on it, for the same reason no one can outstop a Porsche 911: Rearward weight bias and more brakes in the back end.

Lots of good suggestions here. I'd add the Suzuki V-Strom 650, which has been praised as one of the most versatile bikes out there, and can be had with ABS.

by **Ansgar** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:49 pm

You guys are awesome. Thanks for being so patient with my complete ignorance of all things motorcycle.
WARNING: Wall of text ahead.

From the way things are sounding, it might be best (read: less dangerous) for me to get a 250cc cruiser and use that to learn/get comfortable with riding as a whole/not feel bad about inevitably laying it down as I learn, then once I no longer suck at it, upgrade to a 600-700cc bike and get the feel for that before carrying a passenger. Is that a better plan, or would I just be throwing money away at that point?

One that caught my eye was the Hyosung GV250, which has a new MSRP of $4000. From what my google-fu tells me, they used to manufacture motorcycles for Suzuki until they started doing their own designs. Does anyone have any knowledge about this company they would care to drop on me?

Another, related, concern: It's been made resoundingly clear to me in the course of this thread that riding in snow or rain is officially in the bad idea category. So my wife and I have decided that it would be a good idea to have a vehicle to use in bad weather/ to transport the motorcycle when needed. Up to this point, I had been considering getting a truck, but between the three adults in the household (her mother lives with us), that puts us at 4 vehicles. So I got to thinking, my wide is not a truck gal, but what about replacing the compact sedan with a small SUV or a midsize sedan with a trailer hookup and just getting a small motorcycle trailer? If it's a bad weather day, we just look at our work schedules and figure out how to bounce that vehicle between us for the day.

Thoughts?

by **grennels** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:53 pm

If you are seriously considering a bike as year round transportation in St. Louis HERE is what you want -

http://ural.com/

http://www.imz-ural.com/2012-ural-patrol/

by **Doctorr Fabulous** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:01 pm

I have a friend with a Hyosung 650. Get the 650. 250 cruiser is meh, and you'll lose a fair bit off the trade in/resale value of that 250 pretty quickly.

For trailering: unless you trailer the bike more than 4-6 times per year, it's counterproductive to buy and then maintain the plates on a trailer. Rent form uhaul when you need one, likely about once a year if that. Check the tow ratings of your other vehicles. My Jetta can trailer my Harley, which weighs more than that Hyosung will.

Also: Urals are decent, the prices aren't. Try this instead, for a mix of not as pricey and cool factor. http://www.cj750.net/sitepics/ww2/ww2html/ww2_00index.htm The guy takes Chinese 750ccf scooters, which are used for sidecar tours or to make 3 wheeled cabs and imports them, then turns them into WWII German and American sidecar warbike repros. Definitely my next bike.

by **GOODdaysir** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:24 pm

My favorite bike, the one I learned to ride on, and still love up to this day. Also used ones are pretty decently priced. they've got a great ride, and sound sweet too!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2001-VIC ... 535wt_1165

by **doc66** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:00 pm

Florida_Tony wrote:
Ansgar wrote:What do I need to know about riding in light rain/snow?
That it's absolutely miserable?

That you have to ride in it anyway.

Four feet of snow outside Yellowstone, beginning of August, riding a Triumph Daytona. Sometimes you have no choice.

Get Frog Toggs. Although after four days of rain, they no longer work.

Unless you just like to wrench a bike, do not get a Ural. Ducati's are nice bikes but they are not a rider friendly as a good Jap bike. They bog down in traffic and don't really start to perform until highway+ speeds. And, as the dealer told me, unless you have $600 to blow every time you bring it to my shop, don't buy this bike. Same with Aprilia. I just spent $70 on oil. That's just the oil. The filter, that was another problem all together. But hey, how many people ride Aprilia's?

Used bikes can be had for really cheap.

Unless you really like people, do not ride two up on a 250. They are small frames and really not made for two. Most everything up to 500cc is put on a 250 frame.

A really nice UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle) is what you seem to be looking for. The Bandit 600 (no longer made, but still a great bike if you can find them), Any of the newer "semi-naked or naked" bikes in that 600 range is nice. The Yamaha FZR, a Suzuki SV is a great starter bike that can be grown into. And old CBR 600 is also a great bike as long as it has not been thrashed to death.

Random thoughts from someone who at one time had nine motorcycles taking up space in his garage. We're down to four.

You can tour on anything. It's a matter of what accessories you want to have with you when you do. I've toured on my Daytona, on my Aprilia, on my Honda Magna, on my Suzuki Bandit, on my Softtail, on my Honda Ascot! It's a matter of how fast you want to go, how much shit you want to carry, and what you use for listening to music.... Do you want to travel light? do you carry a lot of shit? Shorty and I have toured out of a tank bag. We've loaded down with saddle bags and tail packs. Or you can housebike on a Goldwing or a BMW or a Harley full dresser.

But for your first bike, I'd say get something that you can ride easily, that is not super fast and won't get away from you, and that you can afford to drop. Not that you will, but if you do, you can afford to replace a broken lever and mirror. Body panels, depending on the bike, can be expensive.

I've replaced a few bike parts in my day.

Take the course, have a good time. Riding gets in the blood like nothing else except sex and shooting.

by **doc66** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:24 pm

Vicarious_Lee wrote:The stopping champions of the cycle worls are quality cruiser-style bikes with quality brakes on it, for the same reason no one can outstop a Porsche 911: Rearward weight bias and more brakes in the back end.

Lots of good suggestions here. I'd add the Suzuki V-Strom 650, which has been praised as one of the most versatile bikes out there, and can be had with ABS.

FUCK ABS.

For people who like to really ride, ABS is a bane. If I want to hit the rear brake, I'll feather it myself, thank you.

I still love you VL, but man, I hate ABS on a motorcycle.

by **Doctorr Fabulous** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:27 pm

How do the Versys and KLR 650 stack up against the other dualsports?

by **Ansgar** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:48 pm

That Hyosung 650 looks like it might be among my better options. Given that they're under 7k new, I imagine the price of a used one wouldn't hurt me too terribly. I definitely want something I won't feel bad about scratching up or dropping as I learn, and if I can grow into it and not have to replace it before I start carrying the missus with me. The problem I run into with dualsports and sportbikes are one and the same. I would be too tempted to do something stupid while riding like go faster than I can handle or go offroad on unfamiliar terrain. I have no interest in speed or offroad riding, but I know I am prone to having idiot moments. The main things I want to use it for are riding to and from work/school (if all goes well they may be the same thing come next fall) and riding around town with the possibility of a trip to Bragg or Charlotte to visit people.

by **skelco** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:07 pm

As the board's resident scooter geek I feel compelled to answer in support of my tiny steed riding brethren.

To answer your original question; yes a good 250cc motorcycle will handle you and your wife at 45 mph quite easily and you should be good to go solo up to at least 70 or 80 mph. If you're shopping for a used bike, I'd suggest sticking with Japanese makes as they're generally indestructible and dealer's and parts are easy to get. Hyosung, KYMCO and Sym are good brands that offer bikes derived from the big Japanese makes, but dealer support can be iffy, so check to see what support is around. Also, as was suggested, a scooter might also serve your needs, I'd stick with major brands like Vespa, Piaggio, Honda and Yamaha and whatever you do, avoid anything made in mainland China.

Before you do anything, get yourself a good FULL FACE helmet, an armored jacket and some good gloves and wear boots or shoes that cover your ankles. Practice every minute you can (it's fun after all) and remember that you are invisible to car drivers and some of them are actively trying to get you.

by **Dabster** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:15 pm

doc66 wrote:
Vicarious_Lee wrote:The stopping champions of the cycle worls are quality cruiser-style bikes with quality brakes on it, for the same reason no one can outstop a Porsche 911: Rearward weight bias and more brakes in the back end.

Lots of good suggestions here. I'd add the Suzuki V-Strom 650, which has been praised as one of the most versatile bikes out there, and can be had with ABS.

FUCK ABS.

For people who like to really ride, ABS is a bane. If I want to hit the rear brake, I'll feather it myself, thank you.

I still love you VL, but man, I hate ABS on a motorcycle.

FYI... A $20 kit and ten minutes gives you optional ABS. Considering most wrecks are due to panic stops... I love my ABS Wee-Strom.

OP: When you finally get a bike make sure to get adaquate safety gear and I highly recommend the MSF class and everything written by David Hough, even if you have previous experience.

Oh yeah, also try to avoid riding at night.

by **Dabster** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:29 pm

Doc Torr wrote:How do the Versys and KLR 650 stack up against the other dualsports?

Depends on the criteria.

I haven't seen anyone ADV a Versys yet and if there was much potential, I'd think it would have been done. It's really a shame that Kawasaki hasn't made an Adventure model. Having said that, the Versys is supposed to be a fantastic upright sportbike.

I put about 20k on a KLR650. However after the first month, I was looking for something different. If cash was no barrier I'd have a KTM. If I wanted more dirt, I'd have gotten the Suzuki 650 single (Much lighter thsn the KLR. Pick them up ten times in a bad day, you will appreciate why). I ended up getting a Suzuki DL 650. Good in gravel, fantastic everywhere better than gravel, stupid reliable, beaucoup accessories.

Some have said that the KLR was the ultimate adventure bike -it will do EVERYTHING adaquately and it won't break the bank if you have to abandon it in Bolivia.

Dab

by **lilgunz83** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:31 am

You cant go wrong with a good ole DR650. A great all around bike for low cost. Brand new at 6k $. I got mine used for 2.8k

by **PistolPete** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:26 am

There is no reason to buy a Hyosung. They don't have the dealer support of any of the brands, have mixed reviews on quality and the cost is within a couple hundred bucks of a motorcycle that's known to be a quality product. You'd be way better off with one of the other 600 or 650's.

Since you're in STL, come by one of our meetings- we have a lot of guys that ride and have experience on a variety of bikes. One guy even used to work at a motorcycle shop. We can point you at some models that will be ideal for your situation. Also, keep an eye on the used selection at Gateway BMW. They don't have much now, but they tend to get a lot of standard and dual sport bikes people trade in on BMW's and they have good prices. A month ago they had a couple year old Versys for somewhere around $4k.

And if you want to ride a KLR 650 sometime, drop me a line. If you're tall enough to touch it's a super easy bike to ride.

by **Doctorr Fabulous** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:10 am

Dabster wrote:
Doc Torr wrote:How do the Versys and KLR 650 stack up against the other dualsports?

Depends on the criteria.

I haven't seen anyone ADV a Versys yet and if there was much potential, I'd think it would have been done. It's really a shame that Kawasaki hasn't made an Adventure model. Having said that, the Versys is supposed to be a fantastic upright sportbike.

I put about 20k on a KLR650. However after the first month, I was looking for something different. If cash was no barrier I'd have a KTM. If I wanted more dirt, I'd have gotten the Suzuki 650 single (Much lighter thsn the KLR. Pick them up ten times in a bad day, you will appreciate why). I ended up getting a Suzuki DL 650. Good in gravel, fantastic everywhere better than gravel, stupid reliable, beaucoup accessories.

Some have said that the KLR was the ultimate adventure bike -it will do EVERYTHING adaquately and it won't break the bank if you have to abandon it in Bolivia.

Dab

Cool. My first bike was the Boulevard S40 ('Zuk 650 single cruiser, same engine IIRC) and I dropped it enough to appreciate the weight. What I didn't appreciate was the meager power. 45? Decent. 55? Well, if I have to. 65? OH PLEASE GOD SLOW DOWN IT HURTS!!!

Do the DR's suffer from that? Basically I'm looking for a replacement (just sold my Harley to a buddy) that will not suck in city commuting, have the option to go off pavement without handling like a drunken squirrel, and not be a total dickpain if I decide to ride for an hour or two.

by **Dabster** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:06 pm

Doc Torr wrote:
Dabster wrote:
Doc Torr wrote:How do the Versys and KLR 650 stack up against the other dualsports?

Depends on the criteria.

I haven't seen anyone ADV a Versys yet and if there was much potential, I'd think it would have been done. It's really a shame that Kawasaki hasn't made an Adventure model. Having said that, the Versys is supposed to be a fantastic upright sportbike.

I put about 20k on a KLR650. However after the first month, I was looking for something different. If cash was no barrier I'd have a KTM. If I wanted more dirt, I'd have gotten the Suzuki 650 single (Much lighter thsn the KLR. Pick them up ten times in a bad day, you will appreciate why). I ended up getting a Suzuki DL 650. Good in gravel, fantastic everywhere better than gravel, stupid reliable, beaucoup accessories.

Some have said that the KLR was the ultimate adventure bike -it will do EVERYTHING adaquately and it won't break the bank if you have to abandon it in Bolivia.

Dab

Cool. My first bike was the Boulevard S40 ('Zuk 650 single cruiser, same engine IIRC) and I dropped it enough to appreciate the weight. What I didn't appreciate was the meager power. 45? Decent. 55? Well, if I have to. 65? OH PLEASE GOD SLOW DOWN IT HURTS!!!

Do the DR's suffer from that? Basically I'm looking for a replacement (just sold my Harley to a buddy) that will not suck in city commuting, have the option to go off pavement without handling like a drunken squirrel, and not be a total dickpain if I decide to ride for an hour or two.

Google says the DR650 has 46 HP. Before scoffing, keep in mind that it weights half what a cruiser weights.

Two hours? Allow this link to provide some perspective: http://www.mopedtrip.com/

With a better seat, I think an Iron Butt would be do-able.

Dab

by **PistolPete** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:38 pm

Doc Torr wrote:Cool. My first bike was the Boulevard S40 ('Zuk 650 single cruiser, same engine IIRC) and I dropped it enough to appreciate the weight. What I didn't appreciate was the meager power. 45? Decent. 55? Well, if I have to. 65? OH PLEASE GOD SLOW DOWN IT HURTS!!!

Do the DR's suffer from that? Basically I'm looking for a replacement (just sold my Harley to a buddy) that will not suck in city commuting, have the option to go off pavement without handling like a drunken squirrel, and not be a total dickpain if I decide to ride for an hour or two.

My KLR 650 will do 90 comfortably, but it's a big light bike and gets blown around at that speed. It's got enough power for tooling around and commuting and road trips with one person. 2 up it could use some power. It pretty much uses all the power it has accelerating up hills with me and my wife aboard. If it was my only bike I'd be unhappy with the power, but if I'm carrying a passenger for any distance I just won't take the KLR.

[edit] At like 90 though, it's probably running 4500 rpm and you get some serious NVH at that speed and rpm.

by **Doctorr Fabulous** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:44 pm

Cool. I'm gonna shop the used bikes when I get to the area, (I would love a KTM or BMW) and do some test rides, but it looks like the 'zukes and the Cows will be the main competitors. Though if I could get one of those Indian diesels (basically a milspec HDT) there would be no question.