Threatened while on the phone w/ police

[Kutter_0311]

Had a bit of a close call tonight.

While I was on my way to grab dinner, a huge pickup with really loud pipes blared past me after swerving around a minivan. During the day, I doubt I would have cared, but it's after 10pm. We have a noise ordinance for stuff like this. It's just not our collective idea of civilized.

So I got the plates, make, and model, and proceeded to call up our police non-emergency line, to offer this guy to them on a platter. At this point, the vehicle must have gotten spooked, as it got all kinds of evasive, such that I had a hard time keeping dispatch informed of which road we were on. Perhaps I should have taken the hint. After a few zig-zag turns, he whips a 180 at a t-intersection, and is facing me. This is tactically unsound, as I could be looking down a gun barrel and not know it. I've not seen in the cab, or the driver, as it's dark out and the windows are all tinted. So I drove past him, toward the t-intersection. At this point, I should have gone left. Or even right. I should have broken contact in some way. But I just whipped a 180, and followed, and he watched me do it. He stopped on the road, and he swerved in front of me to block my forward motion when I attempted to pass him. Now we were both stopped, and I was giving dispatch the play-by-play, when he opened his door, got out, and started yelling at me. This was not where I wanted to be. He came toward my door, still yelling at me, until he was 10 feet away, and about 45deg to my front left. Large fella, and quite the agressive attitude. He wanted to know why I was following him. All I could think of was to say, "SSHH!! I'm on the phone with the police!"

Smart? Maybe not, but in a few seconds he quit yelling at me and drove off. Hopefully, no more excitement for a few weeks

[lokifz1]

Don't put yourself at risk for a reckless driver. Rather then one car driving recklessly now there are two. Call in a tag description and direction of travel and go on your way.

In my ao most of these end up with a stern talk to the offending driver. The officer will need to witness a violation to issue a citation. If the offending driver is stopped we offer to let the complaining party sign a complaint this is nearly always refused.

I have never had a citizen show in court to testify after they signed a complaint so it all gets dismissed.

[Jeriah]

I'd love to hear how it played out.

[Kutter_0311]

I'd love to hear how it played out.

Yeah, so would I. I doubt anything happened. I said I'd sign the complaint, and I'd show in court, too.

I maintained a casual driving attitude while following the guy. I didn't need to get crazy, I could hear him for 6 blocks.

[squinty]

Had a bit of a close call tonight.

While I was on my way to grab dinner, a huge pickup with really loud pipes blared past me after swerving around a minivan. During the day, I doubt I would have cared, but it's after 10pm. We have a noise ordinance for stuff like this. It's just not our collective idea of civilized.

So I got the plates, make, and model, and proceeded to call up our police non-emergency line, to offer this guy to them on a platter. At this point, the vehicle must have gotten spooked, as it got all kinds of evasive, such that I had a hard time keeping dispatch informed of which road we were on. Perhaps I should have taken the hint. After a few zig-zag turns, he whips a 180 at a t-intersection, and is facing me. This is tactically unsound, as I could be looking down a gun barrel and not know it. I've not seen in the cab, or the driver, as it's dark out and the windows are all tinted. So I drove past him, toward the t-intersection. At this point, I should have gone left. Or even right. I should have broken contact in some way. But I just whipped a 180, and followed, and he watched me do it. He stopped on the road, and he swerved in front of me to block my forward motion when I attempted to pass him. Now we were both stopped, and I was giving dispatch the play-by-play, when he opened his door, got out, and started yelling at me. This was not where I wanted to be. He came toward my door, still yelling at me, until he was 10 feet away, and about 45deg to my front left. Large fella, and quite the agressive attitude. He wanted to know why I was following him. All I could think of was to say, "SSHH!! I'm on the phone with the police!"

Smart? Maybe not, but in a few seconds he quit yelling at me and drove off. Hopefully, no more excitement for a few weeks

Respectfully, this account does not sound to me like a responsible citizen reporting a nuisance crime to police. It sounds like a road rage incident that you could and should have deescalated. I think you acted irresponsibly. I'm not sure it was smart of you to pursue another vehicle, that is driving "evasively," over a noise ordnance violation/road rage incident. I am trying to imagine how I'd react to a strange vehicle that closely followed me on a dark road, even as I took "evasive" action, and I wonder if the evasive actions of the other vehicle and your vehicle's corresponding maneuvers to catch up to it were actually safe for other drivers or the community. I wouldn't have elected to pursue the other vehicle.

As for the other driver, his decision to get all car chasy and pull 180s and stuff was illegal and/or ill advised, as was his decision to aggressively confront the stranger following him on a dark road - I'm not suggesting he was a model citizen or good guy or anything. In his place I'd have tried to find a populated area, with witnesses, to pull into, and might have called 911 myself about the strange vehicle pursuing me.

[dallas]

This is the exact scenario that got Zimmeman in trouble. You where the one in pursuit. If things had gone bad, he could rightly claim he was in fear for his life.

Not worth the risk.

People following you is a tactic for robbery and car jacking here. If someone is following you, you assume the worst. A friend of mine, fellow doc, had a similar incident. They followed him home and attemptedto rob him. They did not know he carries.

[Gun_Nut_2k1]

A vehicle with a muffle you consider loud is really not something you should involve yourself in other than to advise those guys we pay to look into it. A driver that drives less than responsibly is something you should call in as well. Following him for an extended "Chase"? You could be as much at fault for any issue that might have happened. Had I been the other driver I would have called the cops on you. Once you have reported the vehicle and description leave it alone and go about your business IMHO.

[Blacksmith]

I think Squinty is correct. I however have done near exactly the same thing a several years ago.

I had an 18 wheeler nearly take me out while traveling the highway to Houston. The driver was all over the road and endangering other motorists too, he even ran over a highway marker. I figured he was either high or really tired. Too much something to be driving safely. I tried to call to report him but we kept changing police districts. Strangely he suddenly slowed down and started driving normally. Then we passed a State DPS officer on the side of the road. hmmmm

I pulled over and explained the situation to him, described the vehicle and in less than a minute he was gone down the road. I continued my journey and about ten minutes later saw them on the side of the road. The trucker was pissed. He was holding his log books and screaming something at the cop. I slowed down and the cop saw me, gave me a smile and waved me on. Very satisfying to get him off the road for a while.

I would never confront another driver directly if at all possible. You are assuming a person in their right mind and you have no idea what their state of mind is.

[L4tp]

So YOU start following this guy because YOU thought he wasn't driving the way you wanted him to drive or YOU determined his pipes were to to loud. The story sounded to me like you were aggressively stalking this Innocent citizen. Luckily for you he didn't feel the need to defend himself.

[jamoni]

So YOU start following this guy because YOU thought he wasn't driving the way you wanted him to drive or YOU determined his pipes were to to loud. The story sounded to me like you were aggressively stalking this Innocent citizen. Luckily for you he didn't feel the need to defend himself.

I think the OP got too emotionally involved and escalated when he should have de-escalated. Painting him as John Hinckley Jr. is a little much.

[Gun_Nut_2k1]

Well he is more Hinckley than Booth, but yeah.

[Caenus]

I too, was once on the road headed to Houston. It was 10pm, I was on 290 in the right lane. There was very little traffic until an all black Ford Expedition blew by me going atleast 100 with no lights on. I called sheriff and that was the end of it for me. Didn't see anyone pulled over later, and never saw a cop.

Not very bright driving like that...especially in deer country in November...

[Gun_Nut_2k1]

I too, was once on the road headed to Houston. It was 10pm, I was on 290 in the right lane. There was very little traffic until an all black Ford Expedition blew by me going atleast 100 with no lights on. I called sheriff and that was the end of it for me. Didn't see anyone pulled over later, and never saw a cop.

Not very bright driving like that...especially in deer country in November...

Yeah I try not to drive in texas anymore than I have to.

[L4tp]

I too, was once on the road headed to Houston. It was 10pm, I was on 290 in the right lane. There was very little traffic until an all black Ford Expedition blew by me going atleast 100 with no lights on. I called sheriff and that was the end of it for me. Didn't see anyone pulled over later, and never saw a cop.

Not very bright driving like that...especially in deer country in November...

I agree. He might should've installed a snow plow for the deer but you definitely handled the situation appropriately.

[L4tp]

Yeah I try not to drive in texas anymore than I have to.

[Regular Guy]

Yeah, never, ever do anything to appear aggressive, it only adds fuel. If you can't get the plate or a description, oh well, move on. While there are hundreds of uncool and dangerous drivers on the road it's not our job to track them down. If someone starts being aggressive with me I just slow down and take the next turn. Or stop off the side of the road. Most folks are just venting, realize they are idiots who are not in control of their emotions and don't be like them.

In SC you can give the police a description of the driver, a plate number and a verbal statement about a car. That is enough probable cause for the police to stop AND cite them for the actions you witnessed them do.

One instance that I'm very proud of, a guy was swerving all over the road at 8 pm. I followed him, got his plate and even went as far as to follow him home. The entire time I was on the phone with SCHP. They arrived at the home and arrested the guy for DUI off of my tip. Fuck drunk drivers. I didn't interact with the guy, I did not yell at him, I just followed at a safe distance.

[Caenus]

Yeah, never, ever do anything to appear aggressive, it only adds fuel. If you can't get the plate or a description, oh well, move on. While there are hundreds of uncool and dangerous drivers on the road it's not our job to track them down. If someone starts being aggressive with me I just slow down and take the next turn. Or stop off the side of the road. Most folks are just venting, realize they are idiots who are not in control of their emotions and don't be like them.

In SC you can give the police a description of the driver, a plate number and a verbal statement about a car. That is enough probable cause for the police to stop AND cite them for the actions you witnessed them do.

One instance them I'm very proud of, a guy was swerving all over the road at 8 pm. I followed him, got his plate and even went as far as to follow him home. The entire time I was on the phone with SCHP. They arrived at the home and arrested the guy for DUI off of my tip. Fuck drunk drivers. I didn't interact with the guy, I did not yell at him, I just followed at a safe distance.

My dad was an Leo for 30 years, I remember once as a kid we were driving down US60 in Tempe on our way home from one of their friends houses at about 10pm. The whole family was packed in the wagon. The traffic was backed up nearly a half mile. As cars pulled off the freeway we made our way to the front. There was a n old beat up Datsun truck weaving across three lanes of traffic, driving about 20 miles an hour. All the other cars were just following along behind him. Finally it swerved to the shoulder and we were in the far left lane (3 lanes at that time) and my dad hit the gas. Just as we were passing, the truck swerved back across the lanes. I remember it clearly as the first time my mom told us to put our seatbelts on. We were still a lane away when we passed, and he swerved the other way back towards the shoulder. I looked over as we passed and I remember seeing this old skinny guy with a long white beard "driving the truck". Apparently he was on the verge of passing out. The reason he kept swerving to the shoulder is because he was falling over into the passenger seat as he drove, then waking back up and swerving back onto the road. This was before cell phones, and there was very little anyone could do except stay out of his way.

The funny part was that my sister and I never did find the seatbelts. That was before seat belt laws, etc. we used to lay in the back of the station wagon and watch the lights go by. Oh how things have changed.

[squinty]

I think Squinty is correct. I however have done near exactly the same thing a several years ago.

I have done similar but worse considered things, for worse reasons, than the OP. Good judgement comes from experience which comes from bad judgment etc.. I stand by the advice I gave Kutter - and that RG and Blacksmith and others have given - but want to point out that he (the OP) is still a good guy, with a sincere desire to protect his community. His willingness to get involved and put himself out marks him as a cut above the average dude. The average dude, remember, wouldn't pick up a phone for Kitty Genovese. I questioned his judgment, but not his motives or integrity - they are unassailable.

ETA: and notice when Kutter mentioned the police the other driver didn't get outraged and say "OK jackwaggon, call the police we need'em here!" or hold up his own phone and say "Good! I'm talking to 'em myself!" Instead he chose to beat feet before they showed up. Doesn't prove he was drunk or had anything to hide, but it's still an interesting response.

[Visionz]

Not what I would have done though I enjoyed reading it.
I think the guy you followed was a little reckless. However, feeling followed by a non LEO might have spooked him. I would have just called it in and kept on my way.

[Caenus]

Not what I would have done though I enjoyed reading it.

Which one?

[Shmerlin]

As a dispatcher, and now a dispatch supv, I've given this advice before it's not usually followed and is normally seen as a "cop-out" (no pun intended). Please keep in mind this is a dispatch perspective.

Call in your information, if you can get a vehicle description or even better a plate number (with state) along with a location and direction of travel then thats great. But please do not go following folks all over the country side. If they are going the way you are going then yeah keep dispatch on the phone and update them to your location. However don't speed to catch up with them or follow them.

If the other driver starts taking a route you normally don't go, please don't go chasing them down. Most of the time you're the one that is called in as an aggresive driver due to "This guy has been chasing me all over the city I think he's trying to kill me".

However when you do call your information in, please ask your dispatcher for either an Incident number or Case number if one was stamped. This will ensure that the dispatchers actually did put the call in and that the vehicle information is logged into the computer. Most dispatch agencies, even the smaller ones have systems where if you put a tag number in a vehicle field, it will show if that agency has ever come in contact with that vehicle before.

Also, please be paitent with the dispatcher, often times they have to put information into the CAD (computer) in a certain order, don't go blurting stuff out. For example my agencies computer imputs information in this order "location, incident type, name, ph#, narrative". While this is pretty standard, other agencies do things a bit differently. The best way to report the guy is "Hi, i have a reckless driver to report" then the dispatcher will(should) ask you what ever information they need.

(Side note, they also do this with subject/persons and some addresses)

As said before, most jurisdictions need to have the officer witness the offence before a traffic stop is made.

YMMV.

[Kutter_0311]

Yeah, I can accept I made some bad moves(even I stated that), and I would generally get defensive if someone were tailing me, too. But the most 'aggressive' I'll get is to call it in. The only reason I stayed behind him was that dispatch kept asking for his location, and that was when it kept changing. I really didn't think it was that huge an incident, and I mentioned that to dispatch, as 3 July is one of our LEOs' 'busy' nights, with half the population trying to burn down the other half's houses with fireworks, and that other half trying to get them cited for it. I don't know if this was the most exciting call she had that day, or if she personally hated loud exhaust, but dispatch sounded like she was into it.

Overall, not a night to brag about, but an experience I learned a few things from. Hope you all did, too.

The average dude, remember, wouldn't pick up a phone for Kitty Genovese.

I like to think I'm the type of dude that would have had one hand on the phone and the other on my rifle at the first scream, but nothing that exciting ever seems to happen in range of me. It might be equally lousy sense to be recorded saying "I see a guy attacking a girl down there. (BANG!) Oh, nevermind, she's gotten away from him." But, as we've seen, I'm still forming that 'good judgement' bit. Kitty could have benefitted from someone's bad judgement.

[ais4122]

Im not sure how your local police dept is staffed, but I think most are understaffed, especially at night. When a call comes into dispatch, it may be catagorized by priority. We have 4 priorities on my job. 1. would be a robbery, burglary IN PROGRESS, shots fired, you get the idea. A complaint of a reckless driver would probably be a priority 4, the lowest priority. Sorry, but people suffering from heart attacks, missing persons, thefts, just about everything else is more important. So I could fairly say, if that call came into my dispatcher, it would probably go on the waiting list ( CAD) and it would more than likely not be dispatched for an hour or more, depending on availability of sector cars. Unfortunately such calls may not be dispatched for several hours, due to manpower issues. Keep this in mind the next time you call the police. Your reaction was one of the heart and not the head. You probably would of done better counting to 10 and then thinking of a far off topless beach.

[EmbraceTheHate]

Had a guy follow me one night when I was in my diesel. This isn't your average diesel truck. Its on the verge of not street legal. Anyways he followed me for a while. I don't know what his deal was. I did blow past him at around 70mph maybe it spooked him and he was pissed. Truck was very loud and menacing sounding.

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