Looking For First Handgun In Canada

[WorldWarZeph]

Hi there! I've been a long time lurker, but this is the first time I've posted anything. As I've been contemplating my own personal security, I have decided that I want a handgun, but I live in Canada. Now, there are ones that are allowed, provided they meet certain barrel length guidelines and other criteria. I believe the barrel length has to be 140mm. I'm not attempting to purchase or find one which is illegal to own here. There is essentially no way to have a concealed carry or even just a carry permit in public, so I plan to keep it in a floor mounted safe that I already own. Ideally, in the future, I would like to have several safes, placed strategically around the house, with a keypad lock. But for now, I have a combination safe. I honestly don't know where to start in terms of searching, so maybe if I give you a basic rundown of who I am, it might help. I'm a 21 year old female, heavy build, but short. Strong upper body but my dominant (right) wrist is a bit weaker from numerous fractures and injuries I've collected over the years. Having short fingers is also part of my concern. Beyond that, I don't know how to narrow it down, so I'd be grateful for any suggestions!

[Walking-dead]

I'd look at these. They have pretty thin grips so they are easy to shoot for small hand and short fingers.
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/2KACW9093-1.html

[WorldWarZeph]

That one looks nice, unfortunately the barrel only adds up to 91.5mm. I had to open a converter, because even though I'm Canadian I can't convert in my head, haha. I need one with a barrel length of 5.7 inches. A bit bulky, yes? -.-

[BullOnParade]

Minimum barrel length is over 105mm (4 inches). Lots of manufacturers make models with 4.25 inch barrels for import to Canada.

Do you have a firearms license (PAL) yet? The best place to start is finding a club near you where you can take the course (usually around $200-$250 for long gun and handgun license).

Next, join a club, my club is one of the most friendly places I've ever been. When I was starting out, nearly every member was open to help guide me through purchases, and willing to let me try items from their selection.

In my opinion, start with a .22, Learn the basics of marksmanship, then purchase a defensive caliber.

But the most realistic route, would be a rifle. Rifles do not require as strict storage regulations, in a self defense situation, you can access the rifle faster than a handgun.

[WorldWarZeph]

Thank you! I must have typed my research in wrong, 104 mm is much more rational sounding. I don't yet have my license, mainly because I'm just gathering info at this point; there's only a very small club in my area, so I'm willing to travel a longer distance when I do find one. I've been firing a .22 since I was fourteen (Army cadets), so I can at least say I have some experience with a small caliber. Not comprehensive by any means, but I can do basic maintenance. Do you have any tips of what kinds of things I should look for in a club?

[BullOnParade]

If I remember correctly, there is a club in the Sudbury area which does Black Badge courses (a special course for holster training, required to do holster related competitions). Just looked it up, it's the Sudbury Revolver Club, not sure if this is the club you were aware of, a lot of clubs try to fly under the radar to keep the haters from hatin'. I can't comment on anything to look for, I'm your age, and mine is the first club I've been a member at. I recommend you do your course at the club you'd like to join if you can, it gives you an insight to the clubs operation. If after your course, you couldn't see yourself cooperating with the people who are running the course/club facilities, obviously that club isn't for you.

I'm not saying handgun isn't worth it, but if you're looking for self defense, you'll be able to access the long gun faster. Long guns are also easier to learn and be proficient with, but ammo will be more expensive.

[WorldWarZeph]

Oh, nice! I knew there was one in the town I'm in, we're part of Sudbury's amalgamation now, but they didn't have a site or anything to check out. I'll give the Revolver Club a call on Monday to see if I can get some info. I'm heading to BC on the 5th to visit family, so I'll definitely ask my brother about rifles, he was a member of the boarding party when his ship was deployed to Afghanistan. He's since left the military but owns some of his own for recreational purposes. Basically, the only real issue I've been contemplating in terms of a club would be the way they would respond to a female member. I personally don''t know any woman here who even knows how to use a gun, so... bottom line is, I just want to be treated like any other member. It's not like I'm particularly delicate, or I'm suddenly going to faint at the sound of a gunshot. It's just that I don't like to hunt for sport; if it were a matter of survival, I would- and I don't want to ruffle recreational hunters' feathers, if that makes sense.

[squinty]

I second the motion to buy a .22 handgun first. I think when BullOnParade was looking for a first handgun I recommended a Smith and Wesson 617 w/6 inch barrel. (Don't remember if that's what he finally purchased or not.) It's a heavy stainless steel ten shot .22 lr revolver. It's a great first gun, easy to learn on, easy on the wrist, accurate, and durable. Not the best caliber for self defense by a long shot, (though I'd turn and run if you shot .22 at me) but it's cheap and easy practice, which = good to develop skill with, quickly, which will make you a much better shot with any centerfire handgun you pick up later on. As a second choice, I'd say a Ruger Mark III with a long barrel. It's A ten shot single action .22 lr semi-auto.

If you absolutely must buy a centerfire handgun as your first purchase, and just want a purely defensive weapon, I'd say a Glock 17/M&P full size 9mm/Ruger SR9/XDM 9mm, in more or less that order, or a .357 revolver from Smith or Ruger w/appropriate length barrel. Most of the semi autos I mentioned let you customize the grip size to some extent by swapping out different thickness backstraps.

There's no need to go bigger than 9mm if quality hollowpoint ammo is available to you (I don't know what ammunition restrictions exist in Canada.)

ETA: Or, better yet, ignore the advice I've posted above and see if you can rent or borrow handguns to try out at that club BOP mentioned. Decide what to buy after you find out what you do or don't enjoy shooting.

[WorldWarZeph]

Hey there! A .22 sounds good, so I'm definitely leaning toward that at the moment. As you mentioned, although a .22 isn't the best caliber per se, I'm not entirely concerned about that (in a negative way). Given the choice and if I ever did need to defend myself, I would want to disable an attacker, if possible. A potentially lethal shot would be something I'd want to avoid if at all possible. Unless said attacker was already dead, and needed de-animating. But in a more realistic scenario, I'd prefer the former.

I've always liked the look of a Glock to be honest, so I've done some reading on the site, but like you and BOP mentioned, trying out different ones would probably be best; I can read about the recoil and muzzle rise, but I don't think just knowing the figures can give me a clear idea, since I don't really have anything to compare it to. I also like the Glock's fourth gen model in that it can be used with the right or left hand. Some days my right wrist feels like it's broken (it's not, just old injuries and stuff) and in an emergency I'd like the option to train ambidextrously.

It's 0530 for me so I'll definitely read up on your other suggestions when I can get a few hours sleep !

[squinty]

Hey there! A .22 sounds good, so I'm definitely leaning toward that at the moment. As you mentioned, although a .22 isn't the best caliber per se, I'm not entirely concerned about that (in a negative way). Given the choice and if I ever did need to defend myself, I would want to disable an attacker, if possible. A potentially lethal shot would be something I'd want to avoid if at all possible. Unless said attacker was already dead, and needed de-animating. But in a more realistic scenario, I'd prefer the former.

I've always liked the look of a Glock to be honest, so I've done some reading on the site, but like you and BOP mentioned, trying out different ones would probably be best; I can read about the recoil and muzzle rise, but I don't think just knowing the figures can give me a clear idea, since I don't really have anything to compare it to. I also like the Glock's fourth gen model in that it can be used with the right or left hand. Some days my right wrist feels like it's broken (it's not, just old injuries and stuff) and in an emergency I'd like the option to train ambidextrously.

It's 0530 for me so I'll definitely read up on your other suggestions when I can get a few hours sleep !

If you want a weapon that is less likely to kill the person you use it against, get pepper spray or a a taser.

All shots from a firearm are potentially lethal, and any use of a firearm is a use of lethal force. If you aren't willing to kill somebody and justified in doing so by circumstances and their actions toward you, you should not be firing a gun at them, period. Please don't fall prey to the "I'll just shoot them in the leg" fallacy. I fully agree with you that a "potentially lethal shot" is to be avoided if at all possible. But please understand that "potentially lethal" shots are the only kind of shots there are, no matter the caliber. Some rounds are less effective than others, but less effective doesn't necessarily translate to less lethal.

I'll let people more expert than I am take over explaining terminal ballistics and use of force law and such. I do hope you find a firearm you're happy with, and have fun shooting it.

[BullOnParade]

Oh, nice! I knew there was one in the town I'm in, we're part of Sudbury's amalgamation now, but they didn't have a site or anything to check out. I'll give the Revolver Club a call on Monday to see if I can get some info. I'm heading to BC on the 5th to visit family, so I'll definitely ask my brother about rifles, he was a member of the boarding party when his ship was deployed to Afghanistan. He's since left the military but owns some of his own for recreational purposes. Basically, the only real issue I've been contemplating in terms of a club would be the way they would respond to a female member. I personally don''t know any woman here who even knows how to use a gun, so... bottom line is, I just want to be treated like any other member. It's not like I'm particularly delicate, or I'm suddenly going to faint at the sound of a gunshot. It's just that I don't like to hunt for sport; if it were a matter of survival, I would- and I don't want to ruffle recreational hunters' feathers, if that makes sense.

I know there's a website out there with a list of registered clubs in Canada, which is the only place you can legally shoot a handgun in Canada. Try browsing Canadian Shooting Sports Association. Most clubs either avoid websites all together, or are very non-descript about the information they are willing to share publicly. Sadly, your concerns about female members in clubs are valid. I've been told my club didn't accept female members as little as ten years ago. Gun clubs tend to be filled with old men with old school trains of thought, but at the same time, I've been amazed at the level of political correctness in my club. The thing is, women shooters tend to be better new shooters. I've heard several excuses for it, but it's true.

Hey there! A .22 sounds good, so I'm definitely leaning toward that at the moment. As you mentioned, although a .22 isn't the best caliber per se, I'm not entirely concerned about that (in a negative way). Given the choice and if I ever did need to defend myself, I would want to disable an attacker, if possible. A potentially lethal shot would be something I'd want to avoid if at all possible. Unless said attacker was already dead, and needed de-animating. But in a more realistic scenario, I'd prefer the former.

I've always liked the look of a Glock to be honest, so I've done some reading on the site, but like you and BOP mentioned, trying out different ones would probably be best; I can read about the recoil and muzzle rise, but I don't think just knowing the figures can give me a clear idea, since I don't really have anything to compare it to. I also like the Glock's fourth gen model in that it can be used with the right or left hand. Some days my right wrist feels like it's broken (it's not, just old injuries and stuff) and in an emergency I'd like the option to train ambidextrously.

It's 0530 for me so I'll definitely read up on your other suggestions when I can get a few hours sleep !

If you want a weapon that is less likely to kill the person you use it against, get pepper spray or a a taser.

All shots from a firearm are potentially lethal, and any use of a firearm is a use of lethal force. If you aren't willing to kill somebody and justified in doing so by circumstances and their actions toward you, you should not be firing a gun at them, period. Please don't fall prey to the "I'll just shoot them in the leg" fallacy. I fully agree with you that a "potentially lethal shot" is to be avoided if at all possible. But please understand that "potentially lethal" shots are the only kind of shots there are, no matter the caliber. Some rounds are less effective than others, but less effective doesn't necessarily translate to less lethal.

I'll let people more expert than I am take over explaining terminal ballistics and use of force law and such. I do hope you find a firearm you're happy with, and have fun shooting it.

I couldn't, under any circumstance, suggest shooting someone with a .22. In Canada, our self defense laws are rather ambiguous (though, the current government has promised to clear some of the legal jargon), while you might be in the correct position legally to shoot at someone, you are opening yourself up to a long legal struggle. I can tell you an anecdote on a self defense situation that happened to a member at my club if you want to send me a PM, I'll leave it off the public forum though. The point is, shoot with .38 or larger, shoot center of mass, and shoot with factory loads (defensive ammo if possible).

The .22 I suggested, is simply a training tool, but it's an important tool. If you are serious about this being a self defense tool (my opinion has varied since the raccoon suggested the 617), I recommend a semi-auto .22 because under stress, you will shoot it the same way you shoot while shooting bullseye. With a double action revolver, you are more likely to shoot single action while aiming at paper, but in a self defense situation, shoot double action, which is more likely to result in missed shots to a new shooter.

The Smith&Wesson 617 is still a valid choice, and if you're looking at new revolvers, it's my recommendation for .22. The reason I didn't buy one myself is I inherited my father's collection last summer, which included a S&W model 17, which is the blued version with only 6 shots.

[Turtlewolf]

If you have small hands then you should know that the vaunted Glock feels like it has a fat ass and handles like a brick, I have smaller hands (145lbs but male) and could not ever get a Glock to work properly. They are reliable though but maybe the S&W M&P 9mm might be a better choice, I find that they fit my hands very well and point much more naturaly than a Glock, same with the Ruger SR9.
I haven't owned a handgun in a few months now but that was a decision I made to move away from the limited use of restricted firearms and focus on other non restricted weapons.
My advice is get a Keltec SUB2000, non restricted 10 shot 9mm carbine that is a much better defensive weapon in Canada than any handgun will ever be.

[duodecima]

(snip)Basically, the only real issue I've been contemplating in terms of a club would be the way they would respond to a female member. I personally don''t know any woman here who even knows how to use a gun, so... bottom line is, I just want to be treated like any other member. It's not like I'm particularly delicate, or I'm suddenly going to faint at the sound of a gunshot. It's just that I don't like to hunt for sport; if it were a matter of survival, I would- and I don't want to ruffle recreational hunters' feathers, if that makes sense.

I know there's a website out there with a list of registered clubs in Canada, which is the only place you can legally shoot a handgun in Canada. Try browsing Canadian Shooting Sports Association. Most clubs either avoid websites all together, or are very non-descript about the information they are willing to share publicly. Sadly, your concerns about female members in clubs are valid. I've been told my club didn't accept female members as little as ten years ago. Gun clubs tend to be filled with old men with old school trains of thought, but at the same time, I've been amazed at the level of political correctness in my club. The thing is, women shooters tend to be better new shooters. I've heard several excuses for it, but it's true.

Huh. My admittedly limited experience with US clubs is a bit different - I've had old men go out of their way (quite literally) to be approving, all the way back to 25 years ago when I was still a kid, there were always a few women shooting. That's still being treated differently, btw, but it's a 'differently' that's easier to ignore. It's easy to just own guns (including handguns) in the US, tho, so the gun club folks tend to really love their sport, and perhaps they want to see as many other people as possible love it too. Last time I was there (with my dad) one of his friends said a little sadly he wished his (adult) daughter would want to come shooting with him. (I wonder if he took his daughter shooting as a kid like mine did...)

[offtopic]I'm with you on the hunting - it's not my sport but I've no problem with other people hunting if it's their sport [/offtopic]

[WorldWarZeph]

Hey there! A .22 sounds good, so I'm definitely leaning toward that at the moment. As you mentioned, although a .22 isn't the best caliber per se, I'm not entirely concerned about that (in a negative way). Given the choice and if I ever did need to defend myself, I would want to disable an attacker, if possible. A potentially lethal shot would be something I'd want to avoid if at all possible. Unless said attacker was already dead, and needed de-animating. But in a more realistic scenario, I'd prefer the former.

I've always liked the look of a Glock to be honest, so I've done some reading on the site, but like you and BOP mentioned, trying out different ones would probably be best; I can read about the recoil and muzzle rise, but I don't think just knowing the figures can give me a clear idea, since I don't really have anything to compare it to. I also like the Glock's fourth gen model in that it can be used with the right or left hand. Some days my right wrist feels like it's broken (it's not, just old injuries and stuff) and in an emergency I'd like the option to train ambidextrously.

It's 0530 for me so I'll definitely read up on your other suggestions when I can get a few hours sleep !

If you want a weapon that is less likely to kill the person you use it against, get pepper spray or a a taser.

All shots from a firearm are potentially lethal, and any use of a firearm is a use of lethal force. If you aren't willing to kill somebody and justified in doing so by circumstances and their actions toward you, you should not be firing a gun at them, period. Please don't fall prey to the "I'll just shoot them in the leg" fallacy. I fully agree with you that a "potentially lethal shot" is to be avoided if at all possible. But please understand that "potentially lethal" shots are the only kind of shots there are, no matter the caliber. Some rounds are less effective than others, but less effective doesn't necessarily translate to less lethal.

I'll let people more expert than I am take over explaining terminal ballistics and use of force law and such. I do hope you find a firearm you're happy with, and have fun shooting it.

Ack, sorry, I should have been more clear about that bit. This is why I need to stop trying to communicate at five in the morning, lol. What I didn't specify here, but should have, is that I was thinking of that scenario in a PAW. I know that there is definitely a chance for lethality, no matter what caliber, even excluding things like infection and sepsis. I fully recognize the fact that if I ever do use a firearm against another person, I will need to be mentally prepared for the outcome, which, as you said, could result in their death. If it were not in a PAW environment, I would much prefer to use pepper spray, bear spray, a taser, or even a keychain kubotan.

[BullOnParade]

(snip)Basically, the only real issue I've been contemplating in terms of a club would be the way they would respond to a female member. I personally don''t know any woman here who even knows how to use a gun, so... bottom line is, I just want to be treated like any other member. It's not like I'm particularly delicate, or I'm suddenly going to faint at the sound of a gunshot. It's just that I don't like to hunt for sport; if it were a matter of survival, I would- and I don't want to ruffle recreational hunters' feathers, if that makes sense.

I know there's a website out there with a list of registered clubs in Canada, which is the only place you can legally shoot a handgun in Canada. Try browsing Canadian Shooting Sports Association. Most clubs either avoid websites all together, or are very non-descript about the information they are willing to share publicly. Sadly, your concerns about female members in clubs are valid. I've been told my club didn't accept female members as little as ten years ago. Gun clubs tend to be filled with old men with old school trains of thought, but at the same time, I've been amazed at the level of political correctness in my club. The thing is, women shooters tend to be better new shooters. I've heard several excuses for it, but it's true.

Huh. My admittedly limited experience with US clubs is a bit different - I've had old men go out of their way (quite literally) to be approving, all the way back to 25 years ago when I was still a kid, there were always a few women shooting. That's still being treated differently, btw, but it's a 'differently' that's easier to ignore. It's easy to just own guns (including handguns) in the US, tho, so the gun club folks tend to really love their sport, and perhaps they want to see as many other people as possible love it too. Last time I was there (with my dad) one of his friends said a little sadly he wished his (adult) daughter would want to come shooting with him. (I wonder if he took his daughter shooting as a kid like mine did...)

I agree with you that the majority of members are willing to help, especially with women shooters, but a friend of mine from the club who is a woman has told me that a specific social circle of old men (85+ years old), do not tend to include her in their conversations (a rarity in my club, almost anyone can walk into another conversation at any time and typically join in). While these men are not being harsh to my friend, they are treating her differently. But you are correct, the average experienced shooter is more than happy to share their sport with anyone who is willing to learn.

[squinty]

Hey there! A .22 sounds good, so I'm definitely leaning toward that at the moment. As you mentioned, although a .22 isn't the best caliber per se, I'm not entirely concerned about that (in a negative way). Given the choice and if I ever did need to defend myself, I would want to disable an attacker, if possible. A potentially lethal shot would be something I'd want to avoid if at all possible. Unless said attacker was already dead, and needed de-animating. But in a more realistic scenario, I'd prefer the former.

I've always liked the look of a Glock to be honest, so I've done some reading on the site, but like you and BOP mentioned, trying out different ones would probably be best; I can read about the recoil and muzzle rise, but I don't think just knowing the figures can give me a clear idea, since I don't really have anything to compare it to. I also like the Glock's fourth gen model in that it can be used with the right or left hand. Some days my right wrist feels like it's broken (it's not, just old injuries and stuff) and in an emergency I'd like the option to train ambidextrously.

It's 0530 for me so I'll definitely read up on your other suggestions when I can get a few hours sleep !

If you want a weapon that is less likely to kill the person you use it against, get pepper spray or a a taser.

All shots from a firearm are potentially lethal, and any use of a firearm is a use of lethal force. If you aren't willing to kill somebody and justified in doing so by circumstances and their actions toward you, you should not be firing a gun at them, period. Please don't fall prey to the "I'll just shoot them in the leg" fallacy. I fully agree with you that a "potentially lethal shot" is to be avoided if at all possible. But please understand that "potentially lethal" shots are the only kind of shots there are, no matter the caliber. Some rounds are less effective than others, but less effective doesn't necessarily translate to less lethal.

I'll let people more expert than I am take over explaining terminal ballistics and use of force law and such. I do hope you find a firearm you're happy with, and have fun shooting it.

Ack, sorry, I should have been more clear about that bit. This is why I need to stop trying to communicate at five in the morning, lol. What I didn't specify here, but should have, is that I was thinking of that scenario in a PAW. I know that there is definitely a chance for lethality, no matter what caliber, even excluding things like infection and sepsis. I fully recognize the fact that if I ever do use a firearm against another person, I will need to be mentally prepared for the outcome, which, as you said, could result in their death. If it were not in a PAW environment, I would much prefer to use pepper spray, bear spray, a taser, or even a keychain kubotan.

OK, then if the gun isn't really for self defense, but more for a fun gun, then I'll double down on my suggestion for a .22. In addition to being the best choice for learning marksmanship fundamentals, my .22 handguns are among the most fun to shoot of the collection.

I have a friend who disagrees with me. He likes a certain amount of noise and bang, but I like being able to make little holes exactly where I want them, over and over, for a long time without my ears ringing or my hand getting sore.

I still think a DA revolver is a good training tool, but BOP is right that if you only ever shoot it single action you might as well get a semiauto.

I used to keep a .357 as a personal defense gun. I shot the 617 double action, a lot, and practiced rapid DA shots on multiple target points, because I was trying to get better at SD shooting. Same thing with Sigs and Berettas, I practiced the double action trigger stroke a lot, instead of always cocking the hammer back.

As for clubs - I've never ha a bad experience at an indoor shooting range. (Public ranges and gun shops were a little different.) When I first started shooting, as long as I was willing to learn people fell all over themselves giving advice and tips and support. Especially the range owner, who loved my enthusiasm because it meant I would keep buying targets and ammo from him. I found out later that some of it was suspect advice, but nobody was ever a dick to me. Anybody with even a fraction of skill or knowledge in any sport or craft will welcome and encourage new practitioners. In my experience, only insecure posers show hostility or snobbery to newbs. I bet any club you go to in Canada will be the same.

[Robxxxx]

My recomendation would be to try a Glock 19 (9mm) or Glock 30 (.45) or a Gen 4 Glock 21 with no back straps. I would recomend the 23 (.40 sw) but as you said wrist problems the. 40 tends to actually be snappier then a .45. The reason i dont recomend anything smaller then 9mm, simple old saying i hear everyday, rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6. If you ever need to defend yourself you need to trust in your handgun to do that and a .22 or. 38 dosnt sit right with me.

[BullOnParade]

An idea just struck me, and it may or may not work for you, but maybe consider custom fit grips, which literally fit your hand more like a glove. I have no experience with them personally, but they may be worth something to support your wrist.

[squinty]

An idea just struck me, and it may or may not work for you, but maybe consider custom fit grips, which literally fit your hand more like a glove. I have no experience with them personally, but they may be worth something to support your wrist.

That's a good idea. I think Ansgar was looking for custom fit grips for his new Smith. Maybe look and see what he tries out.
http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopi ... 10&t=95132