Joined the AR club; Holosight Question.

[Tperkins]

So yesterday I convinced my dad to put down the money for a new S&W MP-15 Sporter (Sans forward assist & dustcover). The money he (we?) saved over a non-sporter MP-15, he wants to put towards an EoTech, so I wanted to know what you guys think about which model might be a good one. Granted, any EoTech is going to be quality, but we're looking at spending around $500, so if you think something a little cheaper might be better, or spending a little more would be better, feel free to give feedback.

The model we had in mind was the XPS2 (http://www.eotech-inc.com/products/sights/xps2).

[RickOShea]

Those are a pretty good choice. There's a couple different ones though, the XPS2-0 will give you an "absolute co-witness" with the iron sights: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/352394

While the EXPS2-0 sits a little higher and will give you a "lower 1/3 co-witness" with the irons: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/136345

[Caenus]

Eotech has jumped on the zombie bandwagon.
http://www.eotech-inc.com/products/sights/xps2Zombie

Otherwise, what Rick said.

[Tperkins]

Would the lower sitting sights work with a mangnifier, in the possibility we get one in the future, or would one need the specific ones for use with mangnifiers?

Edit: I saw that thing, it's kinda pathetic, biohazard dot and all...

[RickOShea]

Would the lower sitting sights work with a mangnifier, in the possibility we get one in the future, or would one need the specific ones for use with mangnifiers?

You may want to double-check, but I think the EOTech brand magnifiers come with an extra 7mm riser, so you can use it with either height of their holo-sights.

[TheLastOne]

keep an eye on your local armslist.com posts... you might get lucky. There have been xps's sold in our trading post here too!

[williaty]

Mild sidejacking of the thread here... what's the big deal about "co-witnessing"? I understand what it is and people constantly say how happy they are that their optic is co-witnessed with their BUIS, but what's really the point?

[Tperkins]

Mild sidejacking of the thread here... what's the big deal rabout "co-witnessing"? I understand what it is and people constantly say how happy they are that their optic is co-witnessed with their BUIS, but what's really the point?

it's really just so if your optic fails for whatever reason, you are still able to use your irons without taking the optic off. I mean, yeah it's not a problem for everyone if you can't have a co-witness, but it's not hard to have your sights to co witness, you why not do so? That's how I look at it at least.

[austin93906]

Congrats on the purchase, i went the same route and got the Sport as my first AR because it was around $836 out the door here, as opposed to 1300-1500 for anything with forward assist and dust cover. Makes it comparably priced to what my mini-14 was, and isnt a bad rifle. As a range toy, its all i need. Gives me a lower receiver to put new uppers on down the road. I will never use it for home defense because of having to have a Bullet Button here in Cali.

I personally went with putting my EoTech 512 on it, (which i took off of my Mini-14) and it works out great. has a full co-witness which i like, and is the perfect height for me.

[crypto]

I ended up getting the XPS2-2 instead of the 2-0. Its got another dot underneath the center one that is a 500m aiming point. I like it a lot.

[Doctorr Fabulous]

Sidebar: where's the dustcover on an AR-15?

[kbilly84]

Sidebar: where's the dustcover on an AR-15?

It's called a rifle case.

OT: A while back, Nim torture tested the shit out of an XPS2-0. Linky
When I get around to mounting an optic, I'm either gonna do that and a Larue mount, or just get the EXPS2-0.

[omega_man]

My OpticsPlanet.com XPS w/ qd throw lever alignes perfectly with my Eoctech 4x magnifier (which Doc66 has right now). The qd mechanism adds the 7mm needed, whereas my other XPS with regular thumbscrew mounting mech. sits slightly lower than the magnifier.

[Blacksmith]

Sidebar: where's the dustcover on an AR-15?

Co-located with the ejection port cover.

I am a happy XPS 2-2 owner, I got the magnifier with it as well. With my aging eyes the magnifier works wonders and just flips right out of the way if I want it to.

[Doctorr Fabulous]

If "dustcover" is a misnomer for the ejection port cover, then why get an AR without one?

[Tperkins]

If "dustcover" is a misnomer for the ejection port cover, then why get an AR without one?

Much cheaper, as is one without a forward assist. Now, personally I prefer an AR with a forward assist and ejection port cover, but it was $300 cheaper to get the M&P-15 Sporter that lacks both. My dad decided to go the cheaper route, and it was his money, so I'm not going to argue; I'm just glad we have one at all.

Now, while I won't go as far as saying that I don't see a point to a dustcover, unless I run my guns in really shitty or dusty conditions, the possibility of that much debris getting in is pretty slim. So a dustcover is a meh point in most circumstances. With a forward assist, while the chances of using it is slim, it may be the difference between life and death with specific malfunctions. It's a lot faster to slap the FA than to drop a mag, clear the chamber, reinsert a mag, and rechamber. Meh, I think the $300 would be better off spent on ammo or the aformentioned Holosight.

Amazon has a XPS2-0 for $430 with free shipping and no tax, thats pretty damn good..

[Blacksmith]

If "dustcover" is a misnomer for the ejection port cover, then why get an AR without one?

It is term that was widely in use with all services not so long ago, even in USMC and Army manuals.

it was $300 cheaper to get the M&P-15 Sporter that lacks both.

I understand your logic perfectly. However you have to understand that if you plan on using it for serious business a forward assist is pretty handy. Otherwise you are going to feel awfully upset when your rifle does not go into battery when you really, really want it to.

[Tperkins]

If "dustcover" is a misnomer for the ejection port cover, then why get an AR without one?

It is term that was widely in use with all services not so long ago, even in USMC and Army manuals.

it was $300 cheaper to get the M&P-15 Sporter that lacks both.

I understand your logic perfectly. However you have to understand that if you plan on using it for serious business a forward assist is pretty handy. Otherwise you are going to feel awfully upset when your rifle does not go into battery when you really, really want it to.

Yeah, and that's what I said to my dad. But it was up to him, so eh is what it is. I'll by my own AR-15 soon enough (by end of year, maybe), I think I'm going to go with a RRA, or if I can afford it, Spikes or Daniel Defense.

[DynaBreach]

Those are a pretty good choice. There's a couple different ones though, the XPS2-0 will give you an "absolute co-witness" with the iron sights: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/352394

While the EXPS2-0 sits a little higher and will give you a "lower 1/3 co-witness" with the irons: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/136345

I second this motion, Rick. I am a huge fan of the co-witness. And any EOTech is going to be outstanding.

[williaty]

If "dustcover" is a misnomer for the ejection port cover, then why get an AR without one?

It is term that was widely in use with all services not so long ago, even in USMC and Army manuals.

it was $300 cheaper to get the M&P-15 Sporter that lacks both.

I understand your logic perfectly. However you have to understand that if you plan on using it for serious business a forward assist is pretty handy. Otherwise you are going to feel awfully upset when your rifle does not go into battery when you really, really want it to.

I've repeatedly heard that Forward Assist will generally cause more problems than it solves. In other words, if the bolt didn't go forwards on its own, you already have a mechanical fault and bashing the FA will turn a minor problem into a serious jam. Disagree?

[Doctorr Fabulous]

Disagree. sometimes something sticks (you short-stroke the action) and the bolt doesn't chamber the round all the way. Bam, slap the Forward Assist, and you're back in action. This is most prevalent with poorly lubricated/hot weapons in gritty environments. Beats the hell out of racking it again and again until it chambers the round, just because you don't have time to wait for it to cool, clean it out, and lube it.

This is why the manual of arms for making ready an M16 is pull the charging handle to the rear and release in one movement ("slingshot") tap the forward assist, observe the chamber to make sure the bolt is seated ("turkey peek") and close the ejection port cover. Proper use of the charging handle eliminates half the problem, the FA eliminates the other half.

Then there are miscellaneous jams and whatnot, like if the bolt gets stuck slightly rearward, which prevents you from opening the weapon up. Your choices now are tap the forward assist, or bang the rifle on the ground a whole lot.

williaty: tell whoever said that about the forward assist to suck it. It's worth the investment 99% of the time. For a range toy, you might never need it. You start running 200 rounds or more in a day without stopping to clean and lube after every box, you're gonna have short-stroke jams, and you'll wish you had it.

[Blacksmith]

I've repeatedly heard that Forward Assist will generally cause more problems than it solves. In other words, if the bolt didn't go forwards on its own, you already have a mechanical fault and bashing the FA will turn a minor problem into a serious jam. Disagree?

Possible, but that is much less likely of a scenario than what doc posted. You would have to have a bolt override jam or other similar bad news to make it worse. If that happens you are better off grabbing another weapon as it could take one minute to an hour to get it cleared. The FA was put there for a reason. If your weapon never leaves the bench, the reason is less important.

[Arkane]

Disagree. sometimes something sticks (you short-stroke the action) and the bolt doesn't chamber the round all the way. Bam, slap the Forward Assist, and you're back in action. This is most prevalent with poorly lubricated/hot weapons in gritty environments. Beats the hell out of racking it again and again until it chambers the round, just because you don't have time to wait for it to cool, clean it out, and lube it.

This is why the manual of arms for making ready an M16 is pull the charging handle to the rear and release in one movement ("slingshot") tap the forward assist, observe the chamber to make sure the bolt is seated ("turkey peek") and close the ejection port cover. Proper use of the charging handle eliminates half the problem, the FA eliminates the other half.

Then there are miscellaneous jams and whatnot, like if the bolt gets stuck slightly rearward, which prevents you from opening the weapon up. Your choices now are tap the forward assist, or bang the rifle on the ground a whole lot.

williaty: tell whoever said that about the forward assist to suck it. It's worth the investment 99% of the time. For a range toy, you might never need it. You start running 200 rounds or more in a day without stopping to clean and lube after every box, you're gonna have short-stroke jams, and you'll wish you had it.

What is racking? Got the point?

[Doctorr Fabulous]

racking: verb, taken out of context, common usage
Usage: from the Marine Corps Rifle Manual "rack the charging handle to the rear" meaning to put rear ward pressure on the charging handle. Believed to be a derivative verb based on the onomatopoeia of said action.

Arkane, what's the point? That I shouldn't ask for clarification of bad terminology? My original post was just asking, since "dustcover" is not a part on an AR-15, and could mean anything from handguards to heat shields (in the A2 style handguards).