Who should be in your group?

[phil_in_cs]

comments?

[the_alias]

comments?

She has some good thoughts on what skill sets would be beneficial.
I had sorta hoped this would be something more than "You need person with skill set X" and more about building relationships, interacting with similar personalities.

Serious people start to emphasize skills over gear and in a similar vein I would expect workability and connection with people to be more important than if the person is a qualified medical professional.

I'd rather take say an ER nurse in my hypothetical group who I know I can work with under pressure, who can work with me and trust me than an ER Trauma surgeon who is a total clash of personalities with me - and vice versa.

Who should be in your SHTF Group? This is just my brainstorming:
People who don't quit. - I want people who have a strong spirit
People you can work with. - I work with some people better than others, simple as that.
People you can be honest with. - If you can't express yourself honestly to someone it is difficult to build trust.
People who recognise their limitations. - Self awareness is important - I'd rather have someone able to hold their hand up and say "out of my league" than jump in and do something drastically wrong.

Interesting topic.

[bae]

I take a broader approach.

Rather than trying to craft "a retreat group", assembling skills and personalities to make a small team, I prefer to work developing a self-sufficient resilient community, with a wide range of skills and personalities, and reasonable duplication of skill sets and roles.

Small rural communities in somewhat remote agricultural areas work well for this.

You need to start ahead of The Event though, it can take years/decades

[Tetra Grammaton Cleric]

So hoplophobic middle managers, telephone sanitisers and hairdressers need not apply?

I'd consider expanding her skillset tribes by one to, "Beans, Bolts, Bullets and Bandaids"

Bolts being mechanical, electrical, engineering, fabricating, bushcraft, etc.

Skillsets in reality are not exclusive tribes. A farmer can be a great mechanic with passable first aid skillz and one gun.

A nurse can be a hardcore LDS who is also a tactical training junkie who has been Habitat for Humanity house building since her teens.

Also this - perhaps in an ideal/ized world:




She had some good points. Most of it made good common sense.

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[phil_in_cs]

She had some good points. Most of it made good common sense.

-

Which is all too uncommon these days....

I take a broader approach.

Rather than trying to craft "a retreat group", assembling skills and personalities to make a small team, I prefer to work developing a self-sufficient resilient community, with a wide range of skills and personalities, and reasonable duplication of skill sets and roles.

Small rural communities in somewhat remote agricultural areas work well for this.

You need to start ahead of The Event though, it can take years/decades

Absolutely, and you need to start somewhere, which is why I liked her post. Informal arrangements with known "good to go" folks are useful too. Much easier to get together now over beer and bbq than after the hurricane blew in and you're trying to keep track of who should and shouldn't be running around your neighborhood.

[sigboy40]

She did bring up excellent and simple points. She even mentioned something similiar to the 'bolts' selection of her group, calling them engineers or tinkerers.

My only complaint is one that bothers me a lot. How come everybody thinks that just because they think about and plan for a PAW, that they will be a leader is said world? The simple fact of the matter is that if you are not a leader now, you will not be then.

[Nickthezombiehunter]

comments?

Phil we need to recruit her to ZS14, hahaha. I have seen almost all of her videos.

[phil_in_cs]

IIRC, she's in the Nashville area, and has done some stuff w/ 024. They are probably trying to recruit her as well.

[Nickthezombiehunter]

IIRC, she's in the Nashville area, and has done some stuff w/ 024. They are probably trying to recruit her as well.

I had heard she was in Tn. It's weird seeing her newer videos without the blue sun glasses she use to wear.she would ale an excellent addition to any BOG.

[NamelessStain]

She did bring up excellent and simple points. She even mentioned something similiar to the 'bolts' selection of her group, calling them engineers or tinkerers.

My only complaint is one that bothers me a lot. How come everybody thinks that just because they think about and plan for a PAW, that they will be a leader is said world? The simple fact of the matter is that if you are not a leader now, you will not be then.

In my immediate group, I know I'm not the "leader". BUT I am the one who is taking on the responsibility of figuring out bug out routes, monthly talks with members of my group about their preps, reading these forums and keeping informed, and stockpiling supplies. Others in my group stop over and help with preps all the time.

Now as to her list of people, once I reach my final BOL, I will have all of those people she listed.
- Farmers, 2 with 200+ acres and wives who preserve anything and everything.
- Combat, 5 veterans.
- Engineers, 3 total, mechanical, welder, and carpenter.
- Medical, 1 doctor, 1 ER nurse, 1 RN
- Elders, yes.

Now some of my people fill multiple roles. I also have people who breed horses, knowledge of mushrooms, archery hunters, hell two guys are even champion turkey callers. Is my group large, yup.. about 40 if everyone makes it. Now some of these people I have known for over 30 years and others for only 3 years, but I think we'll all get along

[Doctorr Fabulous]

She did bring up excellent and simple points. She even mentioned something similiar to the 'bolts' selection of her group, calling them engineers or tinkerers.

My only complaint is one that bothers me a lot. How come everybody thinks that just because they think about and plan for a PAW, that they will be a leader is said world? The simple fact of the matter is that if you are not a leader now, you will not be then.

Because if you're the one going out and linking these people up, centering the plans, making sure that everything is fleshed out, then you're already the leader. If you know a bunch of people with useful skills that prep, but haven't already started to take the lead, then you're going to be a field hand, so to speak.

Others of us just have skills and experience. I can get a bunch of Lance Corporals to work for eight hours straight. I am a veritable deity of coercing manpower, but I will go sit in my corner when it's out of my league, and offer suggestions to the subject matter expert (civilian radios, fixing cars, planning farms) I guess what I'm saying is that there probably won't be one "leader" unless the group elects one. That's why it takes time to build a cooperative community, so you can figure out if this guy or that girl can really hack it, or if they're just itchign to be field-hands and night watch.

[sigboy40]

Oh please, oh please, can I be night watch!?!?!

[Doctorr Fabulous]

Oh please, oh please, can I be night watch!?!?!

Please tell me that's not all you picked up on....

[sigboy40]

Oh please, oh please, can I be night watch!?!?!

Please tell me that's not all you picked up on....

There was more?

This video, and the horrible stereotype that goes along with it are one of my prepper pet peeves. Sure, everybody wants to be king of their own shit pile, but it doesnt change the fact that most wont be. Most people will be pulling night watch and picking rocks out of fields. Do people really think that the gang bangers they wont make eye contact with now are going to magically disappear in the PAW? Does a normally introverted person that never goes out and socializes, but has three years worth of food is going to mystically have people flock to him, blindly following his every commandment?

Yes, the video was about creating your team now, before disaster strikes, but how many do it? How many just talk about it on the internet? How many actively go out and find like minded people and do things with them now, while times are good? This would allow you to build the comradery and teamwork that only develops with time. Doc Torr, would you take a fireteam of boot marines into combat with no additional training? No, you work and train together before the combat. You run drills, you hit the obstacle and confidence courses (how I miss those, they really are great team builders). You also have a set standard of discipline and a chain of command that would not really exsist on the civilian side of the PAW.

Lets take Lucifers Hammer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer's_Hammerfor an example. I use it because a) I just finished it for the second or third time and b) he hits upon some very good points. Look at Senator Jellison's compound in the Sierra Nevada:

Surviving "Hammerfall" is shown to be primarily a matter of random chance, with preparation being a distant second factor. Hamner goes from being a dilettante astronomer to a determined survivor, with his new wife Eileen. Randall shows true leadership abilities under fire, while Jellison and other land owners, farmers and ranchers become lords over their fiefdoms and the serfs they employ to provide labor, skills and security. Jellison forms the centerpost of these fiefs, dubbed "the Stronghold", where he presides over a small population of survivors who wish to retain civilization. The tone of life after "Hammerfall" is one where those who do not have valuable professions for a world without power or civilization are relegated to being manual laborers, regardless of their socioeconomic status or profession before the Fall. While doctors and farmers are still valuable, lawyers are unnecessary—but if civilization is to be rebuilt, scientific knowledge is the most valuable skill of all.

Simply put, if you werent in charge before, you were picking rocks AND pulling night watch. You were a peasant, just a body working for the good of the group. Even Hamner and Randall (both alpha males with good leadership ability) had to perform manual labor, and only through chance were able to elevate their status at the compound.

[Tater Raider]

This sounds more like people she wants in her group rather than a plan for dealing with a group of folk, though she makes some valid points. It's more of a survivalist bent than a prepper point-of-view IMO.

I'm with the alias on skills over gear, but I think he will agree with me that gear is nice.

If you are doing preps on this level, I think instead of looking at recruiting you need to look at the people within your group and address the skills from within. The more you and yours know the less you have to depend on folk you don't really know (family v. friends v. like-minded aquaintences for example). Going at it this way you can keep the group more coheasive and meet folk that train you and yours in the ways of the force and maybe make a few new friends and grow your group organically instead of recriting people to it.

[NamelessStain]

Tater, it would be nice to be able to train friends and family, but sometimes their skill level may not be enough.

For example, medical personnel train for years, then every day they perform those skills. I could read and practice every week and I still wouldn't be as good as those who live it. Now my friend who is an ER nurse, I've known him for about 13 years. He was an EMT and now a nurse. His skill level would make my first aid look like a child trying to color within the lines versus his Rembrandt painting. My first aid knowledge may be great on day to day needs. But it would be those extreme times when his knowledge could be the difference between life and death.

I can honestly say that I've been lucky with the quality of friends I've made over the years.

[Tater Raider]

Tater, it would be nice to be able to train friends and family, but sometimes their skill level may not be enough.

Oh I can agree with that. Take the medical issue... There isn't a trained doc or nurse in either my core nor extended group. That doesn't stop us from learning basic first aid or expanding on that knowledge and getting some more advanced lifesaving classes. Final thought on that one, if society has collapsed then what pharmacuticals will be available? That last could cripple an expert unable to adapt.

My counter proposal to recruitment is to take the group you already have and learn the skills you need to have. In areas where you come up short you need to have a reference library (books on homesteading, DIY alternative power, first aid, home remadies, etc.) that you can lean on. Talk to peoople that teach you and yours the skills you need and expand the group in that manner.

Yes, there was a lot of good info in that video, but it sounded more like a recruitment vid rather than a sharing of information - it might just be how she shared the info and what I heard and not the actual intent but that was my take.

[ODA 226]

Besides immediate family, I'd take anyone who had served with me on any of the SF Teams I was assigned to because they are "family" to me too and they've already proven themselves to me and they have my absolute trust.

[NamelessStain]

Tater, it would be nice to be able to train friends and family, but sometimes their skill level may not be enough.

Oh I can agree with that. Take the medical issue... There isn't a trained doc or nurse in either my core nor extended group. That doesn't stop us from learning basic first aid or expanding on that knowledge and getting some more advanced lifesaving classes. Final thought on that one, if society has collapsed then what pharmacuticals will be available? That last could cripple an expert unable to adapt.

My counter proposal to recruitment is to take the group you already have and learn the skills you need to have. In areas where you come up short you need to have a reference library (books on homesteading, DIY alternative power, first aid, home remadies, etc.) that you can lean on. Talk to peoople that teach you and yours the skills you need and expand the group in that manner.

Yes, there was a lot of good info in that video, but it sounded more like a recruitment vid rather than a sharing of information - it might just be how she shared the info and what I heard and not the actual intent but that was my take.

Not just pharmaceuticals, even just simple gauze will go out of stock. Sure you can use a clean piece of cloth, but even they will get more and more rare without the industry that manufactures it now. Just the simple process of sterilizing equipment will become questionable.

I'm totally on board with what you're saying. I've been looking into books that discuss alternative medicine and herbs.

[Doctorr Fabulous]

Oh please, oh please, can I be night watch!?!?!

Please tell me that's not all you picked up on....

There was more?

This video, and the horrible stereotype that goes along with it are one of my prepper pet peeves. Sure, everybody wants to be king of their own shit pile, but it doesnt change the fact that most wont be. Most people will be pulling night watch and picking rocks out of fields. Do people really think that the gang bangers they wont make eye contact with now are going to magically disappear in the PAW? Does a normally introverted person that never goes out and socializes, but has three years worth of food is going to mystically have people flock to him, blindly following his every commandment?

Yes, the video was about creating your team now, before disaster strikes, but how many do it? How many just talk about it on the internet? How many actively go out and find like minded people and do things with them now, while times are good? This would allow you to build the comradery and teamwork that only develops with time. Doc Torr, would you take a fireteam of boot marines into combat with no additional training? No, you work and train together before the combat. You run drills, you hit the obstacle and confidence courses (how I miss those, they really are great team builders). You also have a set standard of discipline and a chain of command that would not really exsist on the civilian side of the PAW.

Lets take Lucifers Hammer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer's_Hammerfor an example. I use it because a) I just finished it for the second or third time and b) he hits upon some very good points. Look at Senator Jellison's compound in the Sierra Nevada:

:quote from a review by an uncited 3rd party about a fictional book:

:musings on said fictional book:

Gotcha. You did miss the point of most of my post. Also: nice job quoting fiction to procve a point...

Reread my post: I stipulated that the "leader" would most likely be the person going out and finding people with useful skills. I have lead Marines who were in the literal sense of the words basically trained into combat, seeing as they checked into our unit 2 weeks before we deployed, and none of that was spent training them beyond "memorize this, it's how you call in a helo if I get fucked up."

See what I did there? I have no problem taking people with a standardized skillset, with which I am intimately familiar, and using them to their potential. I can figure out the other skills later. As far as the gangbangers, middle managers, telephone sanitizers, and Heinlein fanatics...I'm not prepping to save the world, or to start a growing community that will become my kingdom. I'm a Beta personality, best suited for being the enlisted leader under an officer, or if I had gotten my commission, I've been told I'd make one hell of an XO. I'm great at carrying out the commander's intent, but I'm not the best commander in the world.

What do I really excel at? Knowing when to shut up, stand in the corner, and let the guy who worked on Hondas for ten years fix the generator, or let the farmer tell us why the ground in field X looks so discolored.

I tend to find that people who have a "I'll survive, but all these other idiots around me are doomed" mentality are usually pretty low on my scale of what they do under real pressure/fire. I'm not saying that you are that way (there are exceptions) but I would at least ask that you tone down the assumptions a bit. I'll be realistic here: in the unlikely event of a PAW that leaves me with several other survivors, there are two options for government: me or someone I approve of is in charge, or we have a small council. Option three is that I just hit the road, because I'd rather die being eaten by a grue than endure anything like one of Heinlein's ego fantasies.

[tookieblueeyes]

Thank Goodness I would be in that group she mentioned otherwise I am SOL.
I qualify for "Beans" (been farming and gardening all my life and learned from my mother and step-father who learned from their mothers and fathers who learned from their mothers and fathers etc. etc. etc. on and on and on)
I qualify for "Bullets" (Proficient with handguns, long rifles, kinves and even fists thanks to my father and step-father both, my father a military sniper in the Korean War and a hunter, my step-father a hunter)
I qualify for "Band-Aids" (I am a CNA of 10 years & an LPN of 5 years I have IV certification, CPR background and some EMT basic training)
I do all my own vehicle maintanence and that means the heavy equipment I use as well, tractors, swathers, bailers, backhoe, front loader and bulldozer, the seeder, the sprayer, ditch witch, wind mill, tubes, you name it, I can fix just about anything you would find on a farm or ranch thanks to my step-dad! And I can fix it in some pretty imaginative ways i.e. "hillbilly rigging" LOL
All that being said... hopefully I get picked for some group in a doomsday scenario if these are the skillsets that are going to be most desirable to have in your group for a retreat group if SHTF. I would hate to be left out! BUT I STILL WANT SOMEONE IN MY GROUP WHO CAN COOK BECAUSE WHO DOESN'T LOVE GREAT FOOD? Someone who can make sweets would even be selected for my group because WHO DOESN'T LOVE SWEETS?

[JustInCase]

Interesting topic.

I tend to agree with most of what she said. Though a little to heavily focused on what the person can do versus what makes up the person.

IMO, selecting people for a group is a balancing act. Character traits should be a high priority to be considered. Skill sets, hobbies, talents, interest etc. and lastly what "stuff" equipment, tools, gear, connections, etc do they have. Its a balancing act for sure, can the group accept/get along with someone high in one area but low in another?

[tookieblueeyes]

IMO, selecting people for a group is a balancing act. Character traits should be a high priority to be considered. Skill sets, hobbies, talents, interest etc. and lastly what "stuff" equipment, tools, gear, connections, etc do they have. Its a balancing act for sure, can the group accept/get along with someone high in one area but low in another?

I agree because a group of random people all have their different personalities and attitudes and if you cant get along then you cant work as a team, so it would be neccessary to have a group that got along and didn't all have the same gear, but all had different things to bring to the party

[Rev]

'm not prepping to save the world, or to start a growing community that will become my kingdom.

Damn, we're not supposed to be doing that? Time to reevaluate my preps. I also thought making my title "Tyrant" would get rid of any ambiguity as to my position.