Meet the Man Who Lives on Zero Dollars (Modern Day Cave Man)

[dizie]

Dont think I could.

[Rev]

Dont think I could.

I doubt ones ability to eat from the garbage would help in the even of an actual collapse. For instance, were I homeless in a city I'd just eat the pigeons, raccoon's, and other small wildlife. Most homeless wouldn't even know how to prepare an animal.

[dizie]

Dont think I could.

I doubt ones ability to eat from the garbage would help in the even of an actual collapse. For instance, were I homeless in a city I'd just eat the pigeons, raccoon's, and other small wildlife. Most homeless wouldn't even know how to prepare an animal.

True and what happens when the dump stops dumping, homeless would be screwed.

I also dont think the average american would know how to prepare a animal.

With out wally world the average american whould be up poo creek with out a paddle.

[Rev]

http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=/watch%3Fv%3D0TB0d_dRvbI

This guy here? More useful than the gentleman we've been discussing. Also, potentially graphic video.

[Anianna]

Dont think I could.

I doubt ones ability to eat from the garbage would help in the even of an actual collapse. For instance, were I homeless in a city I'd just eat the pigeons, raccoon's, and other small wildlife. Most homeless wouldn't even know how to prepare an animal.

True and what happens when the dump stops dumping, homeless would be screwed.

I also dont think the average american would know how to prepare a animal.

With out wally world the average american whould be up poo creek with out a paddle.

When the shtf, there won't be food left in the dumpster. Our society is wasteful now because it can be. When the shtf, that waste will diminish greatly if not disappear altogether.

Without YouTube, lots of people will also be screwed. Right now, you can go on the internet and find out how to dress a deer or rabbit or chicken or what have you. Better learn to do it now because this fantastic resource isn't likely to be around when you desperately need to know how to get this sort of thing done.

[Cockroach]

I've got to agree with Anianna. He blogs, using a public computer bought and maintained with the taxes other people pay. Which is housed in an air conditioned building, also payed for by others. His blog is hosted on a server that is maintained by the hard work of others. He's not self sufficient or living on zero dollars, he's a bum.

I don't hate the homeless, bad things happen and people get down on their luck. Those who choose to be homeless, living on the generosity of others and charity, and promote it as some sort of enlightened lifestyle choice...fuck that.

Gotta agree with Doc Torr and TDW, actually their posts say it perfectly.

Suelo's a bum (different from homeless or destitute). A contradictory, judgemental one at that who's just plain leeching off the economic/social system he claims to have forsaken.

[Odinsown]

Hey Everyone:

It looks like this guy is partly self-suffcient and partly a bum. He can pick wild plant and eat roadkill but also scavenges thru dumpsters. He may have a small leg-up in SHTF but he is nowhere close to being as self-suffcient as one would need to be to survive SHTF. I think that the people that I read about od BackWoods Home would be just fine if society collasped. In a serious SHTF, my number would come up in about one year. Once I run out of meds, that's all she wrote for me.

Odinsown

[Drackar]

So, here's the thing.

This guy traveled around the world, from religious culture that rejects money to religious culture that rejects money. Spent time there, where it's embraced, and then came back here, where he's ridiculed far worse than he was over in India. Where he spent at least some time living as a Sadhu, and that is a HARD life. And then he came back to the states and started living in a cave. He stopped using money, and started getting most of his stuff out of dumpsters, and sometimes relies on his friends for help when he needs it.

I ask you, what about that makes him a bad example or a drain? He sees how bad modern processed foods are and consumes as little of them as possible. He doesn't pay rent, and he has friends. How long would you tolerate someone who was around, eating your food and picking your crops if they weren't being useful? The article mentions almonds he had picked from a friends orchard. What would you bet that he didn't pick far more almonds at that orchard than made it back to his cave? That the almonds he had were in payment for his labor to harvest almonds for the orchard owner?

You can be a useful member of a community without having money. You can do constructive, helpful things for the people around you without having it rely on a monetary transaction.

I'm not living on zero a month. Far from it. But a significant portion of the work I do every month is for barter. It isn't for money. It's usually for people who can't afford to pay money, but have other things I need, that have a good garden, but don't have a back strong enough to till the soil. That sort of thing. I get something useful, in this case, food, for something useful, in this case, labor. No money changed hands.

Why do you all assume the people that provide him with the means of his survival get nothing of value from him?

[TDW586]

I'm going off his comments alone, actually. He says he "wants to be a bum", a hobo, a person without gainful employment (notice I did not say "paid emploment" or "a salary".

Someone who wants to live in a communal, barter society is welcome to do so if they can find others who want to live with them. For that matter, someone who wants to be a bum and live in a cave is welcome to do so....but why do they deserve my respect? His philosophy is poorly thought out and hypocritically executed, for reasons I've already mentioned and don't care to debate further here.

So, easy solution: he keeps being a holier than thou bum, and I ignore him, with at most a little eye roll. Everyone's happy.

[Drackar]

Why does anyone who lives a different lifestyle deserve our respect? Because him living out there doing his thing doesn't negatively affect you. He's no more offensive to me than anyone who does ANYTHING for a religious reason, which is exactly what this man is doing.

[Rev]

Why does anyone who lives a different lifestyle deserve our respect? Because him living out there doing his thing doesn't negatively affect you. He's no more offensive to me than anyone who does ANYTHING for a religious reason, which is exactly what this man is doing.

You make a valid point. If he is doing this for religious reasons we probably shouldn't be debating it here on ZS.

[Doctorr Fabulous]

Why does anyone who lives a different lifestyle deserve our respect?

They don't, by default.

[Jamie]

He has my (and deserves our) respect/scorn no more or less than any other person living off of society while simultaneously judging It.

Jamie


Posted from my iPad using emphatic gestures!

[Blacksmith]

We have discussed the whole living at the margins scenario before. When the trash dumpster is empty because the people the next level up don't have anything to throw out that guy is going to starve.

I don't much care if the Great Pumpkin himself came down from the heavens and told him to eat garbage for a living that won't save him come hard times. Charity might but he won't see it from me. I reserve charity for those I think are deserving. And with that note:

"There are three things I have learned never to discuss on ZS: religion, politics, and the Great Pumpkin."

and explosives and a bunch of other stuff too

[Lycosa]

I've read a few books on voluntary simplicity and I sort of subscribe to that philosophy, but nowhere in any books that I've read advocate accomplishing that goal through the generosity of others. I have to agree with a lot of people's perspective that it's not fair to say that you are some voluntary drop-out of 'the system' if you are dependant on that system...even if it means that you are eating the leftovers of others. However, it's hard for me to say that he's some kind of plague on civilized man either. The article mentions that he went out and foraged a pretty decent piece of his meal and during rough times has no issue eating locusts, worms, or roadkill. Sounds to me like he's rather more of an opportunist than a straight-up stereotypical bum. Reminds me a little bit of an oppossum... glad to eat the better meal when it's available, but has no issue eating anything that'll support his life otherwise.

[TDW586]

Why does anyone who lives a different lifestyle deserve our respect? Because him living out there doing his thing doesn't negatively affect you. He's no more offensive to me than anyone who does ANYTHING for a religious reason, which is exactly what this man is doing.

None of that means he deserves my respect. Nor does it mean he deserves my hatred. His half-baked ramblings, on the other hand, are quite worthy of my contempt.

That this is not the place to debate them, however, is true. He is entitled to his "religous" beliefs, and I am entitled to my opinion of them. Where exactly people got the idea that their religious beliefs, whatever they are, are "entitled" to respect is beyond me. A right to practice religion free from force of threat of force? Certainly. A right to preach your silly beliefs publicly and be immone from public scorn? Nope.

[TDW586]

Why does anyone who lives a different lifestyle deserve our respect?

They don't, by default.

Well, you'll just insist on coming along and more concisely stating my point. Fine then.

[ninja-elbow]

Just to clear up any misconceptions that could come up regarding Buddhist Monks in Thailand:

Though they eschew direct contact wih materialistic things, Thai monks do use a bartering system - they get food and service daily from the local community in exchange for services to that community like weddings and funerals. Also, the monks need to eschew such things so as to concentrate on their job of enlightenment, and thus spreading that wisdom to others and carrying it on. This is actually very hard to do, the doing of nothing but the most basic of things like hygiene and basic chores such as robe and bedding washing (in the more remote wats) and some basic cleaning duties. Most of your waking hours are spent in contemplation and some isolation.

I say this as this thread contains both abhoration of the subject of the Details magazine article and adoration of the guy. He mentions living at a Thai monastery and I would like to make things clear regarding that and any connection and/or emotional reaction you may be having reading that article.

Love-
-Phra Nopodon aka "ninja-elbow" aka Gabe

[pahwraith]

I'm going off his comments alone, actually. He says he "wants to be a bum", a hobo, a person without gainful employment (notice I did not say "paid emploment" or "a salary".

Someone who wants to live in a communal, barter society is welcome to do so if they can find others who want to live with them. For that matter, someone who wants to be a bum and live in a cave is welcome to do so....but why do they deserve my respect? His philosophy is poorly thought out and hypocritically executed, for reasons I've already mentioned and don't care to debate further here.

So, easy solution: he keeps being a holier than thou bum, and I ignore him, with at most a little eye roll. Everyone's happy.

Does it say that he doesn't do any work or labor? I just gathered that he doesn't use money.
Maybe he trades labor for food directly? The article makes no mention of it. Hobo's are actually different from Bums. Hobos are what we know call migrant workers. Bums are the dudes who dont work at all. The article doesn't mention it at all, it's pretty lazy journalism.
It would have been my second question? "Fine, no money. What about trade? Do you engage in it in any way?"

[mwestjeeper]

The extent to which he leeches on society, is less than many working folks.

What does he really make use of? A computer at the library. If this weren't available, doubt he'd sweat it much. His blog would go away, big deal. Its not pertinent to his survival. He perhaps leeches a bit of food from friends.

A 'normal' American, however, making $30k per year? They use roads and interstates to a greater extent than their tax rate really provides. Their offspring utilize public schools that their taxes don't cover, and are thus subsidized by others. They are likely to be uninsured, yet utilize health care. All at others expense, via higher premiums which of course cover the uninsured unhealthy. Not to mention, someone making $30k with a few kids qualifies for food stamps and WICC nowadays. Another form of leeching.

Not to mention the vast numbers who, like him don't work yet collect welfare.

Not saying he isn't a leech, just saying that he leeches to a lesser extent than millions of 'normal' Americans.

[Rev]

I'm under $30,000 and have my own health care. I'm certain I'm a leech somehow.

[the_alias]

The extent to which he leeches on society, is less than many working folks.

What does he really make use of? A computer at the library. If this weren't available, doubt he'd sweat it much. His blog would go away, big deal. Its not pertinent to his survival. He perhaps leeches a bit of food from friends.

A 'normal' American, however, making $30k per year? They use roads and interstates to a greater extent than their tax rate really provides. Their offspring utilize public schools that their taxes don't cover, and are thus subsidized by others. They are likely to be uninsured, yet utilize health care. All at others expense, via higher premiums which of course cover the uninsured unhealthy. Not to mention, someone making $30k with a few kids qualifies for food stamps and WICC nowadays. Another form of leeching.

Not to mention the vast numbers who, like him don't work yet collect welfare.

Not saying he isn't a leech, just saying that he leeches to a lesser extent than millions of 'normal' Americans.

Please don't try and pass on your political beliefs in posts like this.

What you think is "leeching" is not the same as what others think and shock, horror, likely the difference in opinion has a basis in political ideology.