The new M855A1 EPR rounds

[Doctorr Fabulous]

Doc, your unit is issued M855A1 instead of Mk310 Mod 0 SOST?

That sucks, must have an Army ASP :/

IDK about that. DM's are still getting mk262, M4s and A4s are getting the A1, and SAWs still have the same linked stuff. Sometimes I get old 855 stuff, so I think it's more "give them whatever we have, so we don't have to ship it back or destroy it" as I haven't seen Mk318 since my last tour.

[leatherface_y2k]

If lead from spent rounds was leaching into the groundwater at dangerous levels I'd expect that most everyone living in or near Gettysburg, Verdun, Leningrad, Berlin, all of Vietnam, shooting ranges that have been operating for 50+ years, they'd all be poisoned by now. There would be a huge population of lead-poisoned civilians. It just doesn't work that way. Yes lead is a problem with waterfowl who will EAT pellets for grist. So now we have steel shot for waterfowl. Very few, if any, humans will eat lead.

Now lead, and mercury from primers, in enclosed ranges, that's a real concern but only because it's in vapor that can be inhaled.

And back to the M855A1.. the 5 MOA doesn't refer to the observed performance of the round, it seems to be a pretty accurate load. It refers to the Armys spec re accuracy. The A1 by all accounts is much more accurate than the green tip 855. The issues seem to be with the 3 piece construction of the bullet and the borderline chamber pressures. Plus what that exposed steel tip will do to feed ramps.

[Smash05]

It's more that lead is a poor penetrator, the all copper cartridge does better against barriers.

[Doctorr Fabulous]

If lead from spent rounds was leaching into the groundwater at dangerous levels I'd expect that most everyone living in or near Gettysburg, Verdun, Leningrad, Berlin, all of Vietnam, shooting ranges that have been operating for 50+ years, they'd all be poisoned by now. There would be a huge population of lead-poisoned civilians. It just doesn't work that way. Yes lead is a problem with waterfowl who will EAT pellets for grist. So now we have steel shot for waterfowl. Very few, if any, humans will eat lead.

Now lead, and mercury from primers, in enclosed ranges, that's a real concern but only because it's in vapor that can be inhaled.

I'm not arguing whether there is or isn't a need for "greener" bullets. That's for the EPA and anywhere that's not ZS, since there's so much politics involved there that it makes me queezy. I was merely stating that the EPA is making their ruling, and since a number of ranges and range areas fall in nationally protected areas, the EPA has a big say in things. Now, if we happen to make a better bullet whilst we go green, why not?

Anyway, the feed ramps aren't showing any more wear than usual so far. The tips are coated to ease any wear issues, and I doubt that they used a harder steel in the tip than they did in the feed ramp. I could be wrong though.

[phil_in_cs]

Anyway, the feed ramps aren't showing any more wear than usual so far. The tips are coated to ease any wear issues, and I doubt that they used a harder steel in the tip than they did in the feed ramp. I could be wrong though.

If someone will give me 10k rounds, I will run them through and post the results!

[Doctorr Fabulous]

Anyway, the feed ramps aren't showing any more wear than usual so far. The tips are coated to ease any wear issues, and I doubt that they used a harder steel in the tip than they did in the feed ramp. I could be wrong though.

If someone will give me 10k rounds, I will run them through and post the results!

Man, ya know I tried, but my Ammo Tech said no. Something about "grand larceny" and "misappropriation" followed by some nonsense about Leavaned Worth. I didn't really follow, but I guess I can't be of service here.

[phil_in_cs]

Anyway, the feed ramps aren't showing any more wear than usual so far. The tips are coated to ease any wear issues, and I doubt that they used a harder steel in the tip than they did in the feed ramp. I could be wrong though.

If someone will give me 10k rounds, I will run them through and post the results!

Man, ya know I tried, but my Ammo Tech said no. Something about "grand larceny" and "misappropriation" followed by some nonsense about Leavaned Worth. I didn't really follow, but I guess I can't be of service here.

See, your problem was asking for permission. Don't ask, don't tell.

[UndeadInfidel]

See, your problem was asking for permission. Don't ask, don't tell.

I see what you did there. ಠ_ಠ

[Doctorr Fabulous]

See, your problem was asking for permission. Don't ask, don't tell.

[Vicarious_Lee]

Fucking Hell! I've got nothing constructive to add.

EDIT: Whether you change it or not, that's your new avatar in my head.

[Kutter_0311]

Doc, your unit is issued M855A1 instead of Mk310 Mod 0 SOST? That sucks, must have an Army ASP :/

IDK about that. DM's are still getting mk262, M4s and A4s are getting the A1, and SAWs still have the same linked stuff. Sometimes I get old 855 stuff, so I think it's more "give them whatever we have, so we don't have to ship it back or destroy it" as I haven't seen Mk318 since my last tour.

I know that was SOP for any munitions issued out when I was in, but that was all '1-way' range shit.

I think the Corps' general attitude towards ammo is that of a one-way street, really...

See, your problem was asking for permission. Don't ask, don't tell.

That's no longer part of the official policy. Most I know are happy about that.

I think the vague reference you meant was something about "falling off a truck" or some such...

[landser]

The main argument against the M855A1 seems to be the stupidly high chamber pressures. The M855 we're used to runs ~ 55,000 psi. The new and improved M855A1 apparently runs well over 60,000. Very close to proof load pressure. The Marines won't use it for this very reason.. they don't want their rifles beaten into garbage for some theoretically minimum improvement. I'd never fire this stuff in my rifle.

Did you miss the fact that I'm a deployed Marine using it in my issued rifle, 'cuz it was issued from my ASP? Where are you seeing that the Marines won't run it?

I certainly defer to your experience. Here's a link to a widely quoted article detailing issues with M855A1.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/2012/03/07/m855a1-should-it-be-the-new-round-for-soldiers-and-marines/

Are you suggesting that military procurements are done based on logic and scientific evidence?

If military procurments were based onlogic there would be no ar15

[TDW586]

Oh for fuck's sake.

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[Regular Guy]

Oh for fuck's sake.

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+132 Fucks for sake.

Fucking Hell! I've got nothing constructive to add.

EDIT: Whether you change it or not, that's your new avatar in my head.

+143 On the Avatar.

OT: I got nothing.

[Captain_Obvious]

Oh for fuck's sake.

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:lol: I'm sure he has extensive experience with an AR to back his logic based opinion.

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[landser]

See, your problem was asking for permission. Don't ask, don't tell.

I thought bronies had gotten there own thead by moot to stop the problem of them popping up constantly in other threads

[400 Grains]

I think I'm sensing a theme......

[crypto]

That brony pic made me laugh hard, I'm giving it a free pass.

If military procurments were based onlogic there would be no ar15

Go play in traffic or something. Scram.

[Kutter_0311]

If military procurments were based onlogic there would be no ar15

Go play in traffic or something. Scram.

Wow. Feel that love? That's hot, angry sex. Love it

[DaveTrader]

Whats gonna happen to MK318? I really wanted to get some pulls of that. Are the Marines just testing the new 855A1 or is Mk318 going by the wayside?

[Doctorr Fabulous]

Whats gonna happen to MK318? I really wanted to get some pulls of that. Are the Marines just testing the new 855A1 or is Mk318 going by the wayside?

318 was a placeholder round. Long term, the Corps might decide they like it better. Military procurement is a long and winding process.

[UndeadInfidel]

Whats gonna happen to MK318? I really wanted to get some pulls of that. Are the Marines just testing the new 855A1 or is Mk318 going by the wayside?

318 was a placeholder round. Long term, the Corps might decide they like it better. Military procurement is a long and winding process.

Sounds like they downgraded to me.

[TDW586]

A lot of people think that, and personally, I agree. The Mk318 is a great design. It's just a matter of logistics, though, the Corps isn't big enough to easily justify continuing to use Mk318 if the Army wants M855A1. Sucks, but there it is.

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[Kutter_0311]

It's just a matter of logistics, though, the Corps isn't big enough to easily justify continuing to use _____ if the Army wants _____. Sucks, but there it is.

^^General statement regarding most gear. I wonder how long it'll be before the Corps can no longer afford to get the ACOG's they want, and start issuing the crappy army ACOG's and Aimpoints? Same for cammies. No matter how much better the Corps proves something to be, Big Army will always have a vastly bigger budget and an inversely proportionate concern for the welfare of their personnel.