Introductory Pistol Course with Fenster!!! May 5th 2012.

[Spamity Calamity]

That's right. Fenster has graciously agreed to give a FREE introductory pistol course to members of the Zombie Squad. The scope of this course is geared towards those new to handling a pistol and would be an introduction to some fundamental concepts. In my opinion, there is only the fundamentals and anything that is considered "advanced" is really just a honing of the fundamentals.

Now fenster may not be comfortable being called an expert nor am I comfortable with that label as well. However, I do consider myself a good judge of competancy. In my line of work you have to be able to size up a person's competencies pretty quickly or the job time skyrockets or worse somebody could get hurt. After spending the afternoon with fenster, I can definately tell that this guy is at a higher level of competancy than others but most importantly, he is patient and enthusiastic to teach others. As such I will be partcipating since I don't really know anything about handling a pistol as will my wife and her friend. So there are three people already in this class. I encourage everybody to take advantage of this opportunity and if you have a significant other that is on the fence about owning a pistol or even just shooting one, this is a GREAT time to bring them out.

The class will be at best of the west shooting range in Liberty Hill at 8 am on saturday May 5th. I will be showing up early to make sure we get the tactical bay.

[zombieapocalypsegame]

I'm interested.

My wife and I are looking at pistols at this point, but haven't made a purchase yet. This should be an excellent way to get her more familiar, especially if at least one other woman is going to be there! She's been shooting once before, and she actually wanted to try the .357 - of course with .38 rounds. I'll take my wins anywhere I can on this front.

Are we thinking of requiring a bring-your-own-firearm status for this event, or will a wide selection be coming via our various folks to the range?

ZAG

[Spamity Calamity]

I'm interested.

My wife and I are looking at pistols at this point, but haven't made a purchase yet. This should be an excellent way to get her more familiar, especially if at least one other woman is going to be there! She's been shooting once before, and she actually wanted to try the .357 - of course with .38 rounds. I'll take my wins anywhere I can on this front.

Are we thinking of requiring a bring-your-own-firearm status for this event, or will a wide selection be coming via our various folks to the range?

ZAG

Glad to hear it buddy. There will be at least two women with me so she will be in good company. I would love to see more out there.

I don't really want to require anybody to bring their own pistol. The goal is to bring in new shooters so it's understandable if they don't have their own firearms yet. Now if twenty people show up without guns then we are going to have a problem but Yeah if anybody has a pistol or two to bring to the class, than by all means bring it. I have a .38 special revolver with a holster I could lend out to her. I also have a para-ordnance double stack 1911 .45 I could lend to you if you aren't too sensitive about recoil (everbody is different in that respect). If .45 might be too much I also have a Hi-point 9mm you could use. I think I have holsters for both of these guns. They probably have guns to rent but I would think you would still need a holster to practice drawing. Though I don't know. I am not the teacher. I am sure Fenster will be able to outline better details for his class.

But yeah if anybody has any equipment they can volunteer to lend out to a newbie for this class please chime in! There will probably be a few people that may not even own a firearm yet. And if anybody does wind up borrowing another person's firearm, it always goes a long way to chip in a few bucks to cover the cost of ammo.

[Not_the_Stig]

Seeing I will be in WI for "Business" My wife would like to go with out me. She has her own pistol that she hasn't shot nor dose she have a holster. She would also like to bring one of her army wife friends. Is that ok? Thanks all one of these days I will be able to come out and play.

[fenster]

thanks for the kind words, spamity.

over time, I've taught gun safety and basic marksmanship to a number of friends and family. they enjoy learning it, and I enjoy teaching it. win-win. however, these have always been very small class sizes. one or two people. as far as a class situation goes, this will be my first time for that, so a quick apology in advance if I don't run the class like a well-oiled machine.

here are some notes on what I see as the scope of the class. I also found some videos that preview what I'll be teaching. I think anyone planning on attending should watch them. ..perhaps a few times.

1. Safety.
I really like Clint Smith. I think in the realm of advanced firearms training, there is a whole spectrum of systems and beliefs. I personally find myself agreeing with Clint a lot, as someone coming from a very practical point of view. below is his video on the primary rules of firearm safety:


2. Grip and Stance


3. Sight Alignment

4. Trigger control


I think if you reach a basic level of competency on these items, you should be getting most of your shots pretty near to where you want them, and doing so in a safe manner.

notes on the holster. I think that for the beginner, there is going to be a lot to take in. the addition of the safety behaviors that must accompany the use of a holster , may be biting off more than we can chew.

if you do have a firearm you'll be bringing, one item that would be very helpful to bring is snapcaps. these are dummies that are shaped like real ammunition, but have no primer, or powder or lead. they are useful for practicing loading and manipulation of your gun. you can get these at Cabelas or Academy. I recommend the maroon colored aluminum ones.

if you don't have a firearm, this will be a great chance for you to try out a variety and become a much more informed shopper. the importance of getting a firearm that fits you cannot be over-stressed.

here is what I plan to bring:
22 auto - Browning Buckmark.
38 spcl - Smith & Wesson Airweight snub. I bring this because for some reason, people like to recommend these to new CHL holders, especially ladies. if you're new, and someone is trying to sell you on one of these, you should definitely try it first. I shoot revolvers a lot, and frankly this is my least favorite to shoot. great to carry while mountain biking or running, but I don't ever shoot it for fun.
357, loaded with 38's - Smith & Wesson Mdl 586. this is a full-size revolver. heavy, but in sort of a comforting way. easy on the hands, with a nice trigger. very enjoyable to shoot
9mm - Glock 17. cheap, simple, reliable.
9mm - Smith & Wesson M&P compact - similar to the glock, but different.

[Jeb_66]

I was wondering about the holsters for new people. Lol.

I'm trying to talk my old lady into going. She's been playing with the idea for a while but never wants to go with my to the range. I think she would be more at ease with someone else teaching her instead of me. I've discovered a lot of women are this way, preferring an instructor over husband, especially if the husband is NOT new to firearms.

This is an excellent idea, and I'm sure your time will be greatly appreciated by all who attend.

[Spamity Calamity]

@Not_the_stig Of course they are welcome!!! Tell em to come on down.

@ fenster - Thank you for clarifying/simplifying the class. Not requiring a holster will definately simplify things. How many rounds do you think a student will need for this course?

@ Jeb_66 - Ive found that to be a common thing as well. It's not bad, but it's good to be aware of it.

[JoeP78]

I'll be there ready to learn and money for bullets.

[Not_the_Stig]

Good deal, My wife watched the videos and I will make sure her friend dose as well. Just let us know the round count to bring and I will find the location for the range and send them out. Next we have to convince Mr Fenster to do it again in say July when I am back.

[Spamity Calamity]

I did not realize the popularity of this class! We are pretty much up to what is a manageable class size already if everybody that says they are coming shows up. Fenster would like to teach everybody but can only effectively spend his attention on about 6-8 students. If for some reason 20 people show up wanting to take the class priority will be given to those that have already posted in this thread. That being said I do not want to discourage anybody from coming, just understand that the class may be full so be prepared to spend some time at another bay with the regulars like me, checkthebackseat, Barr, Glitch20, people like that . I may bow out of this class so that he can better give his attention to the new folks it depends on actual attendance. I will for sure still bring my pistols to loan out.

For those of you that are coming to just spend some range time with ZSC:030, I am so far planning on just bringing the pistols since you have to pay a secondary fee for the rifle range.

[Jeb_66]

Well if that many people show up couldn't you help get them started Spam? You could kind of set it up in stations.

1 - loading, unloading, basic controls of the gun itself. (Could use snap caps to stay safe)

2 - sight alignment and trigger control (also need snap caps, and to know which sight picture your particular pistol uses. Commonly only three different ones, but not knowing would change point of impact vs point of aim)

3 - live fire

I've found snap caps a very useful tool when teaching someone. The MAIN thing new people already know is - TRIGGER equals bang. Lol. But it's very helpful for them to feel where a trigger breaks to know when to expect the bang. If not they end up either jerking the trigger or letting the gun get away from them.

I've also been surprised at the number of people who bring guns they can't rack the slide on. So some snap caps in it and you can show them different ways of racking it. (Over the top, sling shot, etc.)

Just my two cents. I'm sure you guys know more about teaching than I do, I've only taught a handful of new shooters.

My birthday is May 2nd and I may use this as an excuse to get out of the house (hoping she'll come with me of course). Sounds like a good time. And cheap since I won't burn all kinds of 5.56. Lol.

[Helix67]

If there is room, you can count on me being there. Just let me know. I can also offer up my 9mm and a 22lr autos for those in the class but do not have something to shoot. Again just let me know if you need something.

[Spamity Calamity]

There is room. My wife's friend can't make it after all. Youre always welcome buddy.

[Chirpy]

Hmmm, the planets may have realigned to the point I can make it for at least a bit of the event. Have to be back in Hutto at noon to help the Girl Scouts run a Pinewood Derby though.

I may bring a PPK/S if anyone wants to shoot James Bonds' gun. Probably drag out a HiPower as well. Maybe even pop the cherrie of my Ruger P95. Depend on how much I want to clean later

I'm also happy just hanging out for a bit if we're overcrowded, or if you need some help I can assist there as well.

Hmmm, now that I'm reading, it sounds like we may have a shooting bay as well. May have to bust out some safe queens... wait, there's that back in Hutto by noon problem.

Maybe I'll just come meet folks - probably can't show up at a Girl Scout event reeking of gunpowder and Birchwood Casey!

[Chirpy]

I too love Clint Smith.

My only problem is I wish he wouldn't be so subtle, so you could tell what he really thinks

[Spamity Calamity]

FYI. Students are going to need at least 100 rounds for this class. Fenster has worked out a very thorough course of fire for us and the minimum to participate is 100 rounds.

[Chirpy]

Any idea how long it will take to finish?

[Spamity Calamity]

Any idea how long it will take to finish?

I believe fenster said two hours. So from 8 to 10 I believe. Don't quote me on that. I know that you said you have to be somewhere at noon and I don't want to be responsible for you getting in trouble with the SO.

[Chirpy]

She'll be in Connecticut by then...it's having 43 crying girl scouts mad at me that I'm worried about this weekend.

I might never be able to buy cookies again!!!

[Spamity Calamity]

I spoke with fenster and he did confirm this class should take around two hours.

[zombieapocalypsegame]

My wife and I are definitely attending.

I just bought a Beretta PX4 9mm. My wife also just bought her pistol - a KAHR CW9 9mm. We're there to learn safety, practice shooting, and enjoy the company. We're not concerned about holster/draw etc - although I am sure talking shop about gun safety and accessories etc is something we definitely want to get more opinions and recommendations from.

We only grabbed 150 rounds with the pistols, and I forgot to snag snap caps at the time. So, I'll swing by Academy tomorrow to get what we need. Should we bring anything else? Paper targets perhaps? We'll have a cooler with water etc, and I'm thinking we might grab a sun shade canopy or something like that.

I may bring our 12ga as well. My wife has expressed interest in trying to hit clay targets, which really surprised me. And boy am I rusty at clays so I just might embarrass myself. My wife may get a bit tired after two hours of pistol training, so we could just shine this part entirely. We'll come ready for it anyway.

I did get a chance to swing by the range on Saturday, just prior to closing time. I was already sun-burnt from the track meet we were at that day, so we just did a quick drive-through tour. But it seems well set up, lots of room in each area, not at all loud, plenty of different sections, etc.

Looking forward to meeting everyone there.

ZAG

[fenster]

class day is approaching, and I'm really looking forward to it. I'm also thinking about some of the logistics and safety angles. one thing that our range will lack, but is particularly useful in a class setting, is a shooter's bench. a bench is handy because it helps ensure that all shooters are behind the common line. it also gives you a place to put your handgun when you aren't holding it, such as when the range is cold, and you go forward to change out your target. previous classes I've attended weren't geared toward the beginning shooter, so they were held on a 'hot range'. hot meaning that the default assumption was that all shooters would have holsters, and would have a loaded, chambered weapon in that holster, all the time.

the only class I've been to that wasn't geared for the intermediate/advanced shooter was my CHL class. for that, we had to shoot at varying distances, so we couldn't use the shooter's bench that was available. instead, the instructor brought out a stack of plastic, porch-furniture-type foot stools. we each got one, and positioned it just in front of us, and marked the shooting line that way. this also gave us a place to place the handgun when we weren't shooting.

I think something similar will work well for us at class this Saturday. so, I am requesting that all attendees bring a camp chair, and an extra loaner if you have it. I will bring 2 that I can loan out. we will use these chairs in this manner:
-I will measure and mark out the firing line. each shooter will place their chair on the line, and stand behind it.
-whenever I give the command for a cold range, the shooter will unload and clear their handgun, then place it and it's magazine on the chair.
-the handgun stays there untouched until we go hot again.

simple and safe.

regarding other useful things to bring to class:
- a hat. for the duration of the class, we will be out in the sun. also, when on the firing line, the shooter to your left may on occasion eject a spent brass casing in your direction. this isn't really a big deal, but the hat is just a bit of extra insurance.

- water/gatorade

- range-appropriate clothing. again, this is related to hot brass. if you're wearing scandals and a casing bounces and comes to rest on your toe, that's going to be unpleasant. if you're wearing a shirt that permits a casing to land inside the collar area, and rest against your skin, that's going to be unpleasant.



so, a consolidated list of what to bring:
- auto handgun with 2 mags. or revolver with speedloader **
- 100 rounds of ammo
- ear and eye protection
- camp chair

also a good idea:
- snap caps
- hat
- water/gatorade
- comfortable, closed-toe shoes with good traction


** earlier in the thread, Spamity and I specifically said you don't need to bring a handgun. that is still the case. this class will be very helpful for you to make an informed choice when it comes time to buy. however, if you are planning to come to class and need to borrow, please PM Spamity and myself ASAP, so we can have a quick chat on what we have for loaners and what you're interested in trying.

[fenster]

... Should we bring anything else? Paper targets perhaps? We'll have a cooler with water etc, and I'm thinking we might grab a sun shade canopy or something like that.

I'll supply the targets (paper plates). if you bring a cooler and cups, that would be excellent, and very appreciated by the group. that canopy would be great as well. however,a bit of warning about that. it's very open country out there, and typically pretty windy. also, the ground is rocky. so if you are planning to stake it down, you'll need a mallet or similar to drive the stakes.

staple guns and/or good tape. any and all who have these, please bring them to attach the plates to the target stands.

[Spamity Calamity]

Sounds great fenster. We have 3 or 4 folding chairs. I',ll bring all of them.