Explosion in Oslo

[A.C.E.]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/8973167/Norway-considers-fresh-exam-of-Anders-Behring-Breivik.html

...
A Nov. 29 psychiatric report concluding that the anti-Islam militant was insane was approved on Thursday by a medical review commission, strengthening the likelihood he will avoid a prison term.
...

Him beeing found insane is actually a good thing. The way I understand it, he can not be released until he has been found sane by the same kind of exam that found him insane. Meaning, he'll (most likely) be there for quite some time. In fact, he can stay locked up for the rest of his life if it is deemed that he might commit more crimes based on his delusions.

[Krustofski]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/8973167/Norway-considers-fresh-exam-of-Anders-Behring-Breivik.html

...
A Nov. 29 psychiatric report concluding that the anti-Islam militant was insane was approved on Thursday by a medical review commission, strengthening the likelihood he will avoid a prison term.
...

Him beeing found insane is actually a good thing. The way I understand it, he can not be released until he has been found sane by the same kind of exam that found him insane. Meaning, he'll (most likely) be there for quite some time. In fact, he can stay locked up for the rest of his life if it is deemed that he might commit more crimes based on his delusions.

I was just about to say this. Safely locked away and medicated? Sure.
Outside of his nutjob ummm... political views (a loose term) Breivik seems to be a very intelligent man. Whereever he goes, I hope they don't underestimate him there. I would hate to hear of 2 dead psych nurses / prison guards in a Hannibal Lecter style break.

[max v]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/8973167/Norway-considers-fresh-exam-of-Anders-Behring-Breivik.html

...
A Nov. 29 psychiatric report concluding that the anti-Islam militant was insane was approved on Thursday by a medical review commission, strengthening the likelihood he will avoid a prison term.
...

Him beeing found insane is actually a good thing. The way I understand it, he can not be released until he has been found sane by the same kind of exam that found him insane. Meaning, he'll (most likely) be there for quite some time. In fact, he can stay locked up for the rest of his life if it is deemed that he might commit more crimes based on his delusions.

Also, there's no way this guy would survive general population, too many inmates with teenage kids would love to get their hands on him. So if there is a new psychiatric exam that finds him sane and fit for prison, he would have to be segregated. Does Norway allow solitary confinement for extended periods?

[max v]

Outside of his nutjob ummm... political views (a loose term) Breivik seems to be a very intelligent man.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/02/us-norway-breivik-idUSTRE77139120110802

...
Breivik's upbringing was remarkably privileged, even by Norwegian standards. He went to the same Oslo primary school as Crown Prince Haakon, who was a few years older.

At Handelsgymnasium, a high school in central Oslo where parents of new students are treated to an organist playing music by Edward Elgar, Breivik would have been surrounded not only by a keen sense of tradition but by his country's future business and political leaders.

"I haven't really had any negative experiences in my childhood in any way," Breivik himself wrote of his upbringing.
...

[raptor]

Is it wrong for me to hope that some huge, ill tempered guy with personal space issues named Mongo becomes this guys' cell mate?


http://news.yahoo.com/norway-mass-kille ... 12973.html

I sincerely hope that this man gets a fair and just trial and (mentally ill or not) that they find some hole somewhere to keep him permanently when the trial is completed. He is a clear and present danger to the world.

[Smü]

It is wrong for me to hope that some huge, ill tempered guy with personal space issues named Mongo becomes this guys' cell mate?

The Humanist side of me says: Yes, that is wrong.

The Human side of me says: Hotdamn, that's a mighty fine idea.

[andygates]

Well, the repellent puke is up for trial, and he's made a not-guilty plea ("self defence" - clearly so he can have his time in front of the camera and be a little fascist martyr) so watch out for people excusing his murder spree.

If you find people excusing a murder spree, I heartily recommend a swift kick in the fork.

[wee drop o' bush]

I watched the trial report on BBC News today, what impressed me most was the stoicism of the interviewed survivors.

[Krustofski]

Well, the repellent puke is up for trial, and he's made a not-guilty plea ("self defence" - clearly so he can have his time in front of the camera and be a little fascist martyr) so watch out for people excusing his murder spree.

It usually immensely pisses me of when crooks who clearly showed intend claim self defense, mostly because it makes peope who actually did act in self defense look bad. In this case I'm not surprised at all. It fits rigth in with his ideology and his wacky manifesto and was to be expected. He would have a hard time trying to justify killing 70 unarmed people (children or not) WITHOUT claiming delf defense.

Also, he argues against the first psych eval and insists on being sane.

[the_alias]

Well, the repellent puke is up for trial, and he's made a not-guilty plea ("self defence" - clearly so he can have his time in front of the camera and be a little fascist martyr) so watch out for people excusing his murder spree.

It usually immensely pisses me of when crooks who clearly showed intend claim self defense, mostly because it makes peope who actually did act in self defense look bad. In this case I'm not surprised at all. It fits rigth in with his ideology and his wacky manifesto and was to be expected. He would have a hard time trying to justify killing 70 unarmed people (children or not) WITHOUT claiming delf defense.

Also, he argues against the first psych eval and insists on being sane.

The English interpreters have just issued a clarification about a mistranslation yesterday of Breivik's defence. He did not invoke "self defence" but "necessity". This is allowed under section 47 of the Norwegian penal code.

Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/ap ... ve-updates

[wee drop o' bush]

I'm glad his own testimony will not be televised.

[Krustofski]

Well, the repellent puke is up for trial, and he's made a not-guilty plea ("self defence" - clearly so he can have his time in front of the camera and be a little fascist martyr) so watch out for people excusing his murder spree.

It usually immensely pisses me of when crooks who clearly showed intend claim self defense, mostly because it makes peope who actually did act in self defense look bad. In this case I'm not surprised at all. It fits rigth in with his ideology and his wacky manifesto and was to be expected. He would have a hard time trying to justify killing 70 unarmed people (children or not) WITHOUT claiming delf defense.

Also, he argues against the first psych eval and insists on being sane.

The English interpreters have just issued a clarification about a mistranslation yesterday of Breivik's defence. He did not invoke "self defence" but "necessity". This is allowed under section 47 of the Norwegian penal code.

Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/ap ... ve-updates

Oh, well then.

[raptor]

Is it wrong for me to hope that some huge, ill tempered guy with personal space issues named Mongo becomes this guys' cell mate?

[Biggin]

Is it wrong for me to hope that some huge, ill tempered guy with personal space issues named Mongo becomes this guys' cell mate?

Idk if they have cellmates in Norway. The Norwegian prison I saw looked like a regular apartment building on the outside (with walls around it) and according to my friend the inside is like a decent college dorm with TV, radio, a half kitchen, computer, etc. It's not uncommon for the homeless to commit petty crimes so they can earn a stay in the prison.

[Smü]

As much as I understood from the corresponding reports on the trial, the DA for that case pretty much ripped his idealogy and self claimed economic, military and educational achievements into tiny little pieces.

Without being present or having seen any videos, it seems like the judges, attorneys and lawyers are making a good job so far.

[Krustofski]

Well, the repellent puke is up for trial, and he's made a not-guilty plea ("self defence" - clearly so he can have his time in front of the camera and be a little fascist martyr) so watch out for people excusing his murder spree.

It usually immensely pisses me of when crooks who clearly showed intend claim self defense, mostly because it makes peope who actually did act in self defense look bad. In this case I'm not surprised at all. It fits rigth in with his ideology and his wacky manifesto and was to be expected. He would have a hard time trying to justify killing 70 unarmed people (children or not) WITHOUT claiming delf defense.

Also, he argues against the first psych eval and insists on being sane.

The English interpreters have just issued a clarification about a mistranslation yesterday of Breivik's defence. He did not invoke "self defence" but "necessity". This is allowed under section 47 of the Norwegian penal code.

Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/ap ... ve-updates

Oh, well then.

Addendum: Every single German report I can find says he claimed self defense. The same is true for quite a few French news website. I'm beginning to suspect that international media did not bother checking the original Norwegian statement and simply relied on the (wrong) English translation. Norwegian into English into French and German. Seriously, my dear friends with the media, translations should not be done as a game of telephone.

[Mad_Maxx]

I cant really say anything about how this case is getting handled without breaking forum rules, so i`ll settle for cursing at my screen at the norwegian jail and police system. So very much for death sentence in this case.

[raptor]

An update. The killer is upset about being ridiculed in court.

http://news.yahoo.com/norways-mass-kill ... 28206.html

All I can say is:

Is it wrong for me to hope that some huge, ill tempered guy with personal space issues named Mongo becomes this guys' cell mate?

[me_ofef_seraph]

So, it is over. I'm happy with the outcome of the trial. Declared mentally sane, and given the maximum sentence. 21 years with preventive detention, most likely meaning de facto life imprisonment. This decision reflects best on the judicial system, and makes sure we don't forget what these killings where a result of: Calculated terrorism motivated by political extremism. Clearly it is widely accepted now that his extremist views and his militant methods where what caused him to kill, not insanity. As a result it is now harder for right wing-extremists to steer the debate away from the ideological aspects of ABB's acts. Emotionally speaking I would probably enjoy it more if he was not declared sane, knowing how much he would hate to not become a political prisoner, a martyr for his cause. But I feel a prison sentence was strictly speaking the correct decision, and therefor the best one. In any case he will never be released into the public. When the time comes (after he has served his minimum sentence) to decide if he is fit for release or not, it is my generation that will control the outcome of that decision. The generation that on the 22nd of July 2011 lost friends, relatives, and classmates, and who many years from now will remember all too clearly what this man is capable of.

[majorhavoc]

So, it is over. I'm happy with the outcome of the trial. Declared mentally sane, and given the maximum sentence. 21 years with preventive detention, most likely meaning de facto life imprisonment. This decision reflects best on the judicial system, and makes sure we don't forget what these killings where a result of: Calculated terrorism motivated by political extremism. Clearly it is widely accepted now that his extremist views and his militant methods where what caused him to kill, not insanity. As a result it is now harder for right wing-extremists to steer the debate away from the ideological aspects of ABB's acts. Emotionally speaking I would probably enjoy it more if he was not declared sane, knowing how much he would hate to not become a political prisoner, a martyr for his cause. But I feel a prison sentence was strictly speaking the correct decision, and therefor the best one. In any case he will never be released into the public. When the time comes (after he has served his minimum sentence) to decide if he is fit for release or not, it is my generation that will control the outcome of that decision. The generation that on the 22nd of July 2011 lost friends, relatives, and classmates, and who many years from now will remember all too clearly what this man is capable of.

They say one of the under-appreciated roles of a formal system of justice is something beyond retribution, beyond mere punishment for the specific crime. To publicly hold the criminal, the crime and all the heinous elements up for scrutiny allows society the opportunity to react to it, to articulate exactly why it was so wrong, and then take measures that help ensure it doesn't happen again.

I've grown old enough to often raise a cynical eyebrow whenever these kinds of mass murders take place. But seeing the way the citizens of Norway rose to the occasion, spilled into the streets and voiced such an overwhelming rejection of intolerance and senseless violence was a really beautiful thing to see. Not what anyone could call "worth it", but under the circumstances, the best possible outcome. As long as this guy never walks the streets again as a free man, I believe in the long run that justice - in the fullest sense of the word - will have been served.

[shrapnel]

So, it is over. I'm happy with the outcome of the trial. Declared mentally sane, and given the maximum sentence. 21 years with preventive detention, most likely meaning de facto life imprisonment. This decision reflects best on the judicial system, and makes sure we don't forget what these killings where a result of: Calculated terrorism motivated by political extremism. Clearly it is widely accepted now that his extremist views and his militant methods where what caused him to kill, not insanity. As a result it is now harder for right wing-extremists to steer the debate away from the ideological aspects of ABB's acts. Emotionally speaking I would probably enjoy it more if he was not declared sane, knowing how much he would hate to not become a political prisoner, a martyr for his cause. But I feel a prison sentence was strictly speaking the correct decision, and therefor the best one. In any case he will never be released into the public. When the time comes (after he has served his minimum sentence) to decide if he is fit for release or not, it is my generation that will control the outcome of that decision. The generation that on the 22nd of July 2011 lost friends, relatives, and classmates, and who many years from now will remember all too clearly what this man is capable of.

They say one of the under-appreciated roles of a formal system of justice is something beyond retribution, beyond mere punishment for the specific crime. To publicly hold the criminal, the crime and all the heinous elements up for scrutiny allows society the opportunity to react to it, to articulate exactly why it was so wrong, and then take measures that help ensure it doesn't happen again.

I've grown old enough to often raise a cynical eyebrow whenever these kinds of mass murders take place. But seeing the way the citizens of Norway rose to the occasion, spilled into the streets and voiced such an overwhelming rejection of intolerance and senseless violence was a really beautiful thing to see. Not what anyone could call "worth it", but under the circumstances, the best possible outcome. As long as this guy never walks the streets again as a free man, I believe in the long run that justice - in the fullest sense of the word - will have been served.

Very well said.

[me_ofef_seraph]

So, it is over. I'm happy with the outcome of the trial. Declared mentally sane, and given the maximum sentence. 21 years with preventive detention, most likely meaning de facto life imprisonment. This decision reflects best on the judicial system, and makes sure we don't forget what these killings where a result of: Calculated terrorism motivated by political extremism. Clearly it is widely accepted now that his extremist views and his militant methods where what caused him to kill, not insanity. As a result it is now harder for right wing-extremists to steer the debate away from the ideological aspects of ABB's acts. Emotionally speaking I would probably enjoy it more if he was not declared sane, knowing how much he would hate to not become a political prisoner, a martyr for his cause. But I feel a prison sentence was strictly speaking the correct decision, and therefor the best one. In any case he will never be released into the public. When the time comes (after he has served his minimum sentence) to decide if he is fit for release or not, it is my generation that will control the outcome of that decision. The generation that on the 22nd of July 2011 lost friends, relatives, and classmates, and who many years from now will remember all too clearly what this man is capable of.

They say one of the under-appreciated roles of a formal system of justice is something beyond retribution, beyond mere punishment for the specific crime. To publicly hold the criminal, the crime and all the heinous elements up for scrutiny allows society the opportunity to react to it, to articulate exactly why it was so wrong, and then take measures that help ensure it doesn't happen again.

I've grown old enough to often raise a cynical eyebrow whenever these kinds of mass murders take place. But seeing the way the citizens of Norway rose to the occasion, spilled into the streets and voiced such an overwhelming rejection of intolerance and senseless violence was a really beautiful thing to see. Not what anyone could call "worth it", but under the circumstances, the best possible outcome. As long as this guy never walks the streets again as a free man, I believe in the long run that justice - in the fullest sense of the word - will have been served.

I agree. Well said. For me the justice system has never been about retribution, or punishment (beyond the practical function of it as a deterrent and a lesson), but about shielding society from destructive elements, either through rehabilitation, or separation. For this individual, being found sane and imprisoned for life is the best solution for society. I guess that is what I mean. Through the last year we have had the opportunity to reflect on what is wrong with the terrorist, and what is not wrong with him, in which ways he is dangerous, and what would be the most fitting response taking a whole range of factors into consideration. I am glad we have not decided to hide behind the illusion that we are dealing with a madman, but rather have realized that even in such a liberal society as Norway, political extremism can manifest itself as horrible atrocities through sane perpetrators. I am happy the punishment reflects this, and for me it is almost irrelevant that the terrorist himself is happy about the outcome of the trial himself. As long as he is no longer a direct danger to people.

[andygates]

Nicely done, Norway. Very measured and stoic (which is what I'd expect of you lot ).