Knife Making: First Shot 1095 full tang [56k warning]

[Tourg]

So last night while attempting my first knife, I noticed I had a few chips on one side.

I'm not finished with the shape yet, but I'm worried about the chip in the middle.



As far as I know, I was not going to fast and was not putting to much pressure on the on the metal. I bought the 1095 steel from what appeared to be a reputable online site, and haven't been able to find anything on the metal chipping at this part of the build.

Any Ideas welcomed.

[Tourg]

I'm not sure of its current RC. The site states it has already been annealed so I assumed it was fine.

The site: http://www.knifemaking.com/product-p/xm1220.htm

Here are some better photos.

[ForgeCorvus]

You done much filework before?

How clean is your file and have you de-pinned it recently ?

Looks like a tear made by a pin (one of those little bits of metal that get caught in the teeth of a file), draw-file along the line of the blade until the mark has gone and then carry on working normally.
If its a pin tear or you've jagged it with your file's edge you'll never see it again, if its really a chip (or worse a crack) it'll be back or it'll breed.

If thats the case then you need to contact the vendor as its not fit for purpose.

That help?

[Tourg]

This is my first time seriously using a file. I've used them before on some landscaping tools but it was a while ago and they didn't need much.

I bought 2 new files for the knife, so they were nice and clean when I started
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R ... reId=10051
http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardware ... reId=10051

I was not really checking for extra bits in the teeth so that might be the problem. Every couple passes or just every couple minutes on that?

Hoping this a mistake I made, and not the stuff I'm using. Also, this is helping, a lot.

[Tourg]

if you will rub some chalk into the teeth of the file that will help keep it from "Loading" with chips. Also make sure that you "Card" it every so often to keep the chips out.

Card it as in just checking it for junk, or something specific?

[Rednex]

A file card. Its kinda like a wire brush but short and flat to clean out the teeth in a file. Some are double sided wire on one side and a scrub brush on the other.

Like this http://www.amazon.com/Steelex-D2658-Fil ... B000661868

[Storm Crow]

A file cuts efficiently in one direction. If you push it the wrong way, it may cut, but it will load up and gall quickly. Files only cut on the push stroke and file cards only clean on the pull.

Hard for me to tell without watching you, but it kind of looks like either galling from the teeth of the file loading, or the edge of the file biting in from filing in one spot.

Definitely get a file card and keep the teeth of the file cleaned out. If you're filing in the right direction, you should only need it every once in a while.

[Tourg]

Would this work for now by chance?



I've got a couple new ones still, and it would save me a trip to the hardware store where I know I would walk out with more than just a file card. Especially since its pay day.

[ForgeCorvus]

Its hard giving advice over the net, on one hand its easy to forget that not everybody knows the basics and on the other trying not to teach Granny to suck eggs.

Sorry if I sound patronising here, but this was the first decent 'How-to' I could find
http://www.accuratebuilding.com/publications/recipes/, scroll down to 'Tool lesson pdf' and pick #7 'How-to file surface edges'
I know its talking about practicing on wood, but theres info on holding, using and cleaning files

BTW don't use the same file on brass as steel

Please post this project as a 'Work in progress', its always good to see what others are working on

[blades7558]

one way to see if the chip is a crack is to take a horse shoe magnet and put it on the spot after you file it smooth and take some of your filings and sprinkle in between the legs of the magnet.

if its a crack or inclusion the filings will accumulate in that area.

[Tourg]

Here are the some pics of the two blades I've been working on since my "chipping" issue. Sorry for the iffy photos but the Dslr is on loan to a friend tonight. Figured I might as well add a few shots while I wait to find some parts for a forge from work. (Somewhere there's an old metal sink and bouncy house blower just waiting to be foreclosed on. )

(The dog's have been murdering the grass by the patio cover, anyone want a Visla and Springer Spaniel )


Still need to finish off the top and touch up part of the handle, but the basic shape is definitely getting to where I want it.


Quick and dirty cord wrap for proof of concept. Concluded I would be drilling a few holes, but no more unwanted chipping on the second one.





I'm thinking I might borrow a friends bench grinder to put a hollow grind on the Skinner. Or should I just go with a scandi / flat ? Seems like most people have different opinions on what grind works best for dressing. My experience has only been using hollow on large game, so if anyone has used a different type lemme know what yah think!

Thx for reading / picture surfing

[Crow]

A metal sink for a forge? If it is stainless steel it will glow cherry red and deform from the weight of the coal. Then when it cools down it will deform again in odds ways. Learned this while smelting aluminum in a stainless steel buffet bin. Use an old brake drum from a junk yard, they are made to withstand the heat.

[Tourg]

So I take it there is literally something wrong with this picture? ( pun intended )

[Storm Crow]

Looks like a workable setup to me. What fuel are you going to use?

If I may make a suggestion, I'd recommend getting a section of oil field pipe or other large-ish diameter *UNGALVANIZED* pipe, getting it glowing orange hot in the forge, then while it's still in the forge heating the blade inside the pipe before quenching. It'll help even out the heat and eliminate (or at least greatly reduce) the chances of inadvertantly burning up your blade while bringing it to temperature. You can even put some wood shavings, broken twigs, or other organic material down in the pipe to burn up the oxygen inside to reduce the amount of scaling and therefore post-heat treatment cleanup of the blade.

I think trying to hollow grind on a stone wheel bench grinder is asking for heartache and possible injury. I'd stick with a flat grind with a secondary bevel, personally. They work admirably well for most cutting tasks if properly executed.

If you don't mind, what is your plan for heat treating? I ask because a lot of folks seem to go into their first foray into knifemaking without a clue about how to heat treat. You seem to have done your homework on how to approach making your first knife, but I'd like to double-check you and make sure you aren't setting yourself up for troubles. Without a good heat treatment, you don't have a good blade. It's farily simple with simple steels. You won't get maximum performance out of 1095 with that setup, but you should get pretty darn good, providing you do it right.

[Crow]

So I take it there is literally something wrong with this picture? ( pun intended )

Never said it was wrong. I did say it would give you problems.
I am all for using things for other purposes. As long as you feel safe do it

From that picture I would not put pvc pipe at the bottom of a tube that hot slag would fall down in
I remove that elboe at put a threaded T there and cap the bottom. This way you remive the cap and slag comes out easier and pvc wont melt

[Tourg]

No Worries, was just wondering

Going with a different setup all together. Found out Lp will be cheaper in the long run for me, and should cause less problems with the neighbor who is down wind. As much as I love recycling scavanged parts, I'm just going with a gas burner forge, like this one... and pay the shipping costs for the fire bricks >.<

http://zoellerforge.com/firebrickforge.html


As for the actual use of it, I plan on heating to as close to 1475 *F as possible then quenching in 150 *F Vegetable for a couple minutes. I'll put some practice in so I can get the blade from the forge to the oil as soon as possible, as I've read it should be less than 1 second from forge to oil. After that it goes into a preheated kitchen oven set to 425 *f for 2 hours, then cooled to room temperature , twice. Found a page of Heat Treater's Guide: Practices and Procedures for Irons and Steels, 2nd Edition here http://straightrazorplace.com/forge/32732-1095-steel.html#post340335 so hopefully I'm at least in the ballpark with my numbers.

[Storm Crow]

Sounds like a good plan to me. If I make an observation, it seems like the more durable the insulation, the longer it takes to heat up and cool down. I'd recommend getting the wool insulation as the forge will come up to temperature quicker. You'll need to cover it with ITC100, Satanite, fireplace mortar, or similar to keep the fibers from getting airborn and into your lungs, but other than that it's great stuff. You just need enough of a shell to give it form; I've built several coffee can and paint can forges that work great.

Your approach on heat treatment seems spot on. Good! You've done the research. Carry on.

[Crow]

We use a 10 gallon galvanized bucket with lid filled with used motor oil. I didnt do any homework on different oil types. I figuired recycling was best at the time. I do recomend a container that will not melt/catch fire if your oil flashes and catches. Also a lid to snuff is great, as water will make it worse. Think grease fire on the stove as it is similar

[Storm Crow]

Crow - Good thinking, but I would really recommend changing out the used motor oil for either commercial quench oil or canola oil. Used motor oil has carcinogens and heavy metals in it.

10 gallons is overkill for doing small blades. I use a good-sized bread pan for most of my stuff. Pre-heated oil cools more quickly than cold oil (weird, huh?) and pre-heating 10 gallons is going to be a lot more difficult.

Probably a good size for hardening ax heads and hammer heads, though.