Tax return came in - 300 BLK AR?

by **shiddymunkie** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:22 pm

After a lot of discussion and reflection, I have decided to go the AR route for my PDW project. As part of my decision making process, I have also decided to SBR and suppress this PDW (which I can now afford, thank you TurboTax 8-)

). With that being considered, the 5.56 round looses some of its shine when you are talking about super-short barrels + suppressors. A little bit of research led me to the 300 BLK, and I have to admit, it seems like a pretty good choice for my purposes. Here is what I would like to discuss:

- Is this a good system/cartridge to invest in for my purposes?
- Who makes good quality 300 BLK ARs for a decent price?
- What is the shortest barrel I can have while keeping good performance?
- Hows the recoil/muzzle rise?
- Best suppressor for the price?

And anything else you feel is worth discussing. I have a cap of $2500 for this project, whats the best way to make this happen?

by **Regular Guy** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:28 pm

Too easy. Get a noveske 8" brl and everything else from PSA. Should be easily doable under $1200. Next get a Innovative Arms 7.62 deception. $950 with stamp. The rest is mags and ammo.

by **shiddymunkie** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:41 pm

I suppose I should add that I would like a decent fast-acquisition optic (red dot etc). Would this change anything above?

by **TDW586** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:43 pm

You're not building a .300 BLK AR with a decent optic, certainly not an SBR, for under 1200. You could build the rifle and get the optic later.

EDIT: My bad, you said 2500. Still not happening, suppressed and with an optic. Around 1000 for the gun, 1000 for the suppressor, 300-500 for an optic, plus 400 in tax stamps. Nope, not happening.

Sent from my SGH-T839 using Tapatalk

by **UndeadInfidel** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:52 pm

TDW586 wrote:You're not building a .300 BLK AR with a decent optic, certainly not an SBR, for under 1200. You could build the rifle and get the optic later.

EDIT: My bad, you said 2500. Still not happening, suppressed and with an optic. Around 1000 for the gun, 1000 for the suppressor, 300-500 for an optic, plus 400 in tax stamps. Nope, not happening.

Sent from my SGH-T839 using Tapatalk

Agreed here. Take into consideration the 6 or so months before you ever even see the gun... not quite a good choice if it's the first AR/AK.

OP should get over trying to have the flashiest gun possible and just buy a standard AR with more training/ammo.

by **AKFTW** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:00 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY9hRZDZcf8&context=C3e99dccADOEgsToPDskJYwW33exMU-i2ufbzl5BW5

I'm just gonna leave this here...

by **UndeadInfidel** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:07 pm

AKFTW wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY9hRZDZcf8&context=C3e99dccADOEgsToPDskJYwW33exMU-i2ufbzl5BW5

I'm just gonna leave this here...

Reminds me of the last PDW thread.

by **shiddymunkie** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:55 pm

Jesus, you people have attitudes. You're telling me there's no way to build this for $2500 or less and still have a decent rifle?

by **Regular Guy** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:00 pm

Regular Guy wrote:Too easy. Get a noveske 8" brl and everything else from PSA. Should be easily doable under $1200. Next get a Innovative Arms 7.62 deception. $950 with stamp. The rest is mags and ammo.

And toss a Eotech 512 for the optic.

by **shiddymunkie** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:18 pm

How about this:

SBR Tax $200
Suppressor Tax $200
YHM 7.62 Suppressor $650
PSA Carbine $500
Noveske Blackout 8" barrel $350
Leophold Delta reflex sight or EO Tech 512 $350

Total $2250

by **Big Boy** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:34 pm

I'm jealous... I want a 300 BLK so bad. I really want AAC to just release the honey badger... I'd snatch that up in seconds.

by **TDW586** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:44 pm

Yeah, that works, have fun. Do it.

If you actually want to know why that won't work, I'll give you a hint. "Forend" or "handguards". A standard delta ring setup can't be used with that barrel, so add 150 for the cheapest of free float forends.

Then look up the length of that YHM suppressor, and add it to an 8" barrel, and realize that your "SBR" will end up as long as a 14.7" non-SBR with a pinned flash suppressor, with about twice the weight in the barrel.

Then add in a set of rail mounted front and rear sights, $200 bucks.

So, more like 2500, for what would in reality be a really shitty, heavy SBR with a lot of low end components.

Sent from my SGH-T839 using Tapatalk

by **SimonZayne** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:05 pm

shiddymunkie wrote:How about this:

SBR Tax $200
Suppressor Tax $200
YHM 7.62 Suppressor $650
PSA Carbine $500
Noveske Blackout 8" barrel $350
Leophold Delta reflex sight or EO Tech 512 $350

Total $2250

Don't forget the 100 bucks for the Lower

by **shiddymunkie** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:18 pm

TDW586 wrote:Yeah, that works, have fun. Do it.

If you actually want to know why that won't work, I'll give you a hint. "Forend" or "handguards". A standard delta ring setup can't be used with that barrel, so add 150 for the cheapest of free float forends.

Then look up the length of that YHM suppressor, and add it to an 8" barrel, and realize that your "SBR" will end up as long as a 14.7" non-SBR with a pinned flash suppressor, with about twice the weight in the barrel.

Then add in a set of rail mounted front and rear sights, $200 bucks.

So, more like 2500, for what would in reality be a really shitty, heavy SBR with a lot of low end components.

Low end components? I thought PSA, Noveske, EO Tech/Leophold, were all quality manufacturers...are you referring to the YHM can? And why would this be a shitty/heavy carbine? I'm confused

by **UndeadInfidel** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:30 pm

TDW586 wrote:So, more like 2500, for what would in reality be a really shitty, heavy SBR with a lot of low end components.

... and no ammo to shoot out of it.

OP - we're just being realistic. You are not being realistic. As I said before, invest in a standard AR, stock it with ammo and learn how to shoot. Save all of the high speed black ops stuff for when you're tactically and financially proficient.

by **TDW586** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:12 pm

Yes, the YHM can, an outdated EOTech. Dude, I'm getting tired of talking you out of your stupid ideas, no offense. If you think it's a good idea, seriously, be my guest.

I explained to you why; cheap YHM cans are long and heavy as fuck. Spend 200 bucks on a stamp and 350 on a barrel, then slap an 8" long (what's 8+8, by the way? Hmmm)...you've got over 16" of barrel, and a fuckton of extra weight at the end of the barrel, making it awkward to handle.

YHM can on a bolt rifle? Sure, it's cheap and it works? YHM can on an SBR? Defeats the purpose.

And if you still disagree, by all means, go build yourself a gun and be happy. Everyone is sick of seeing these hypothetical threads, just do your research and buy a damn gun.

Sent from my SGH-T839 using Tapatalk

by **Kommander** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:24 pm

Lets not forget that the barrel needs to be attached to an upper and coated. You will either need to pay someone to do this or purchase the tools for it yourself.

by **Relic72** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:24 pm

I built this today for around $1200
It's a 5.56 but until I have to use it as my bug out gun at least I can shoot it and enjoy it for a reasonable price.
BUT!!! When I get some extra cash I'm going to build a 300BLK out upper for hunting, because it has around the same ballistics as a 30-30 and for black tail that's all you need.

by **Bender711** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:48 pm

To not be a kill joy, I'll point out that you might be able to do it within budget if you can find some good deals on used parts.

by **Regular Guy** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:09 pm

Alright, here's my suggestions within you budget.

First $400 is for tax stamps.

Next is the gun.

I'd buy this: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.ph ... upper.html and rebarrel with this: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.ph ... arrel.html (When it's back in stock and have it cut down to 8" prior to installation.)

Once you get you lower $250 for a PSA MOE, register it as an SBR and in the mean time you can wait for the 300 BO brl to come back in stock and have the work done. SBRs are taking 6 months!

Now, call me a fan boy but I suggest a Innovative Arms thread on Deception 7.62 can over a YHM. Here's why, the overall length is shorter on a thread on can and the are more baffles in the IA than the YHM. The whole point of a suppressor is to be shorter, quieter and suppress flash. Why have a QD if it's louder, flashier and longer?

That will run you $750. So far we have $400, 750 and the upper and lower which is $600 then the brl which is $250. So were roughly at $2000.

I'd skip the optic and get some Daniel Defense fixed sights with a tritium front post. That's $200.

$2000, that leaves you with $125 for a YHM carbine rail. $2125.

I'd spend the rest on 300 BO ammo and AR-15 mags.

Yeah, it may be a little more heavy but I've been using YHM, PSA and DD stuff for a long time and none of it has failed.

Personally, I'd skip the BO and get a 5.56 AR-15 SBR with a 10" brl and a IA Grunt suppressor. Get some sub sonic 5.56 and call it a day. That would be hundreds less and have common parts with every other AR-15 on the planet.

The problem I see with the BO is while it will cycle subsonic you still have the noise of the action. Go ahead, cycle the action on an AR, it's still loud. Now, with subsonic 5.56 I can fire a very quiet shot and cycle the action when I want to just by yanking the charging handle. You know what, I have a decibel meter on my phone, the cycling of an AR reads out at 87 decibels.

by **TDW586** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:37 am

Without an optic, you could build a nice suppressed .300 BLK AR for well under the budget listed, yes.

Sent from my SGH-T839 using Tapatalk

by **Liff** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:03 am

shiddymunkie wrote:Jesus, you people have attitudes. You're telling me there's no way to build this for $2500 or less and still have a decent rifle?

You are right on the first part. Sorry (or not) about that. The standard of 'decent' that a lot of us talk about is from the prespective of people returning from the sandbox. Their idea of decent is different than a lot of other people's idea of decent.

Some better constructive advise (maybe) is to wait a while before going 300 BO. If you are thinking of shooting a lot of subsonic. AAC is changing the twist from 1 in 8 to 1 in 7. If you are thinking supersonic, 1 in 8 is just fine.

Either way; take your time, do a lot of research, and realize that most of us are too poor to buy anything twice. The reason that a lot of us make very emphatic recommendations is that we have bought something twice and learned the hard way.

by **Absintheur** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:25 pm

The can on my 300 Whisper is closer to 12 inches...has never seemed overly front heavy or awkward to me despite being a longer barrel...shoots great too...

by **TDW586** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:50 pm

But you're mainly shooting that off a bench or prone, aren't you? It certainly doesn't look like a PDW type weapon to me.

As I think I said, if you're buying a can for a hunting rifle, target rifle, anything intended to be used mostly from a static position, by all means go with a less expensive can, since a few ounces and inches don't matter as much, and a larger can might give better suppression.

But on a weapon intended for use as a PDW, or anything for running and gunning, target to target, fast shooting (like, a short barreled rifle with an EOTech) ounces and inches matter.

Sent from my SGH-T839 using Tapatalk