Anybody seriously considering a bug out boat?

[JohnnyWahkr]

For some people a boat is really the best option.

[HKTackDriver]

Yes, a boat is definitely in the cards being a Long Islander. My neighbor is defenseless. I'm boatless. It makes for a nice combination. He maintains the money pit and if necessary, I benefit from that ownership. There are also far larger boats on the shores that I know the owners of. Just much slower. My neighbor's Yamaha 230 jet boat is perfect to GET OFF THE ISLAND. But for sustained living, I'd look more towards a larger (34'+) boat, whether diesel or sail.

[KnightoftheRoc]

Bae - can't tell from the photo's but - Nordic Tug?

Yes - a boat is part of my bugout plan depending on the nature of the situation, just need to change a few things (like the boat itself . I'm more or less surrounded by fault lines, which means possibly (probably?) closed roads/bridges - if the bridges are closed - I pretty much have to move by boat. Also working on a plan to pick up other group members if they can't make it by road.

Not many Islands I'd seriously consider as a BOL if unless I owned property on one (sadly, I don't). But a properly equipped sail boat - you have the biggest mote ever devised - just watch out for zombie pirates (there's a movie in that somewhere) - a couple of good radios to figure out where to anchor and your good for a long time. If anyone chooses to go that direction - practice heaving to, and using a sea anchor - with the increase in storm activity, you'll want it for riding out those really nasty blows.

This raises a good point, one I'd not considered- bridges. Specifically, bridges that have come down. I live in the Mid Hudson Valley. If I needed to bug out by boat, the Hudson would be my only viable option to get any distance. The problem would be, there's a ton of bridges crossing the river- any one of which could come down due to a 'quake or other major WTF moment of Nature. Not being the sailing type, I honestly don't know how I'd try to get past a downed bridge. Anyone ever consider the type of bridges crossing their BO route with this in mind? What answers, if any, have you come up with? For myself, heading North or South, I'd have a variety of construction styles, suspension, girder, some are even a mix of the two. The channel of the Hudson is usually around 50 feet, but that doesn't mean it will be passable, even at that depth.

[HKTackDriver]

Bae - can't tell from the photo's but - Nordic Tug?

Yes - a boat is part of my bugout plan depending on the nature of the situation, just need to change a few things (like the boat itself . I'm more or less surrounded by fault lines, which means possibly (probably?) closed roads/bridges - if the bridges are closed - I pretty much have to move by boat. Also working on a plan to pick up other group members if they can't make it by road.

Not many Islands I'd seriously consider as a BOL if unless I owned property on one (sadly, I don't). But a properly equipped sail boat - you have the biggest mote ever devised - just watch out for zombie pirates (there's a movie in that somewhere) - a couple of good radios to figure out where to anchor and your good for a long time. If anyone chooses to go that direction - practice heaving to, and using a sea anchor - with the increase in storm activity, you'll want it for riding out those really nasty blows.

This raises a good point, one I'd not considered- bridges. Specifically, bridges that have come down. I live in the Mid Hudson Valley. If I needed to bug out by boat, the Hudson would be my only viable option to get any distance. The problem would be, there's a ton of bridges crossing the river- any one of which could come down due to a 'quake or other major WTF moment of Nature. Not being the sailing type, I honestly don't know how I'd try to get past a downed bridge. Anyone ever consider the type of bridges crossing their BO route with this in mind? What answers, if any, have you come up with? For myself, heading North or South, I'd have a variety of construction styles, suspension, girder, some are even a mix of the two. The channel of the Hudson is usually around 50 feet, but that doesn't mean it will be passable, even at that depth.

How big is the boat? How deep is the hudson on average? You can always pack a come along and some steel cable on your boat and attempt to drag it over the bridge. Only feasible on an outboard motor boat though. A keel or I/O or straight outboard would be torn off. The other conern with a fiberglass hull is that it simply wouldn't make it! There's the dynamite route to clear a 10' wide path through the debris - if you have dynamite. (Assuming not.)

I think the best option would be to try and navigate a path through the debris or realize at a certain point, you're not going any further down the river. We don't have that type of concern down here on Long Island. Then again, you don't have our concern of being stuck on an island! IMO - your concerns are the nuclear reactor and quake issues. And if it's the reactor - you are NOT going to make time on a boat!

I honestly don't see a boat as a viable option for anyone that doesn't need to cross large bodies of water to escape.

[KnightoftheRoc]

Bae - can't tell from the photo's but - Nordic Tug?

Yes - a boat is part of my bugout plan depending on the nature of the situation, just need to change a few things (like the boat itself . I'm more or less surrounded by fault lines, which means possibly (probably?) closed roads/bridges - if the bridges are closed - I pretty much have to move by boat. Also working on a plan to pick up other group members if they can't make it by road.

Not many Islands I'd seriously consider as a BOL if unless I owned property on one (sadly, I don't). But a properly equipped sail boat - you have the biggest mote ever devised - just watch out for zombie pirates (there's a movie in that somewhere) - a couple of good radios to figure out where to anchor and your good for a long time. If anyone chooses to go that direction - practice heaving to, and using a sea anchor - with the increase in storm activity, you'll want it for riding out those really nasty blows.

This raises a good point, one I'd not considered- bridges. Specifically, bridges that have come down. I live in the Mid Hudson Valley. If I needed to bug out by boat, the Hudson would be my only viable option to get any distance. The problem would be, there's a ton of bridges crossing the river- any one of which could come down due to a 'quake or other major WTF moment of Nature. Not being the sailing type, I honestly don't know how I'd try to get past a downed bridge. Anyone ever consider the type of bridges crossing their BO route with this in mind? What answers, if any, have you come up with? For myself, heading North or South, I'd have a variety of construction styles, suspension, girder, some are even a mix of the two. The channel of the Hudson is usually around 50 feet, but that doesn't mean it will be passable, even at that depth.

How big is the boat? How deep is the hudson on average? You can always pack a come along and some steel cable on your boat and attempt to drag it over the bridge. Only feasible on an outboard motor boat though. A keel or I/O or straight outboard would be torn off. The other conern with a fiberglass hull is that it simply wouldn't make it! There's the dynamite route to clear a 10' wide path through the debris - if you have dynamite. (Assuming not.)You assume correctly, lol

I think the best option would be to try and navigate a path through the debris or realize at a certain point, you're not going any further down the river. We don't have that type of concern down here on Long Island. Then again, you don't have our concern of being stuck on an island! IMO - your concerns are the nuclear reactor and quake issues. And if it's the reactor - you are NOT going to make time on a boat!

I honestly don't see a boat as a viable option for anyone that doesn't need to cross large bodies of water to escape.

True- one of my concerns is the nuclear plant to my south- it's close enough that one errant wind could BLANKET this area in radioactive crap. Even with ideal winds, well, ideal for ME, the elevation of a cloud could still expose our area badly. A downed bridge would be bad, if I were headed south- that route would mean going right past the reactors. Even if they weren't the actual emergency, the real one could have damaged them badly- just look at Japan. A water-based evac isn't even high on my list of possibilities, but I DO have to consider the possibility. In my case, it would probably be nothing bigger than a john boat, and I honestly can't see why I'd be headed TOWARD NYC, but it's still something to consider. Currently, I have nothing for this.

[HKTackDriver]

Even if there were a plume from the reactors, you'd still have time to boogie out of town. You'd easily drive faster than the winds, so you're better off picking a direction, aiming your car in that direction and driving 100mph away. How many directions can you go on the Hudson? Your Hudson is my Long Island!

[KnightoftheRoc]

I can probably WALK faster than a plume could get to me, given the usual prevailing winds, but once it goes up, the radioactivity won't depend on wind speed. Distance can mitigate exposure, but that's also dependent on the strength of the source. If the reactors went, I'd be looking to get a mountain or two between me and it. But yeah, the Hudson runs N/S, and has squat for current- below around Albany, it's actually a fjord, not a river (bet ya didn't know that one, huh?) which accounts for the sluggish current and powerful tides. Downed bridges are an obstacle to more than me and a john boat- think of the amount of shipping that could be caught on either side of just one downed bridge.

[raptor]

If you are worried about radioactivity let me mention something about the using a boat to escape. Water is a wonderful shield against radiation. In the case of fallout, mots of the particles will be heavier than water and when they land on the water most will sink quickly, if there is wave action.

So even if you are caught in radioactive ash from fall out, the exposure will be significantly lower in the water than on the land where the ash will continue to accumulate. The water surface is self decontaminating. Obviously the ash will have to washed off the boat but that can be done with seawater which should be plentiful. You will also enjoy no benefit from reduced exposure as the ash is falling nor from radioactive gases. However, IMO a boat makes an excellent vehicle to ESCAPE from a nuclear event assuming a) you have the necessary skills and knowledge c) lawful access to a properly prepared and suitable vessel c) the weather cooperates d) you have a suitable destination in mind that is within the capability of the vessel.

Boats can be good BOVs in certain circumstance, but IMO poor BOL in most situations.

[grennels]

"Wooden ships on the water very free..
silver people on the shoreline leave us be..."

[cauldron]

We have a canoe. It will fit the two of us, the dogs, and our bobs. There are lots of rivers and creeks and streams in Illinois where we live.It's 1000 miles to the gulf. It looks possible... The nice part is that canoes were made for doing just this, (long distance on rivers) and are made to be carried around things like falls and downed bridges.

It's not plan A or the best idea... But it looks like a viable option if we need to head away from the area and the roads are closed.

I have seen 18 foot canoes that weigh a little over 100 pounds that will hold 1000 pounds. Some also will take a small motor, sails, and even an outrigger.

[Hanzo]

Would love one of these for a Bug out Boat.

[bae]

Boats can be good BOVs in certain circumstance, but IMO poor BOL in most situations.

Heck, I've lived on mine for months at a time. All depends on the boat, your skills, and how you are equipped. Some folks here live on theirs year-round.

[nyE]

Hi folks, new member but i've read a lot here over the years, just needed to put in my opinion on this subject as from experience i can definitely agree that a bug out boat is an excellent option for people in many places to consider. I specifically recommend the use of a kayak, which i used recreationally and for camping over the years, but in doing so have learned the true potential of this mode of transport.

I'm one of those living on Long Island, technically in Queens very close the north shore accessing the long island sound and surrounding waters. As far as comfort in a kayak, the model I primarily use (100+ times a year) is only 14.5 ft on the smaller end of sea/ touring kayaks, yet has the potential with careful gear selection to operate self sustained for up to a month, carrying the necessary gear to procure food (hunting, fishing gear) and fresh water (filters, stills, desalinator) in addition to clothing and survival equipment, camping, navigation, cooking, communications, energy in solar chargers and cells, equipment for lighting, signalling etc, etc. This boat is extremely reliable, and is made of tough rugged plastic as opposed to more sensitive fiberclass boats. It can be and has been dragged over rugged ground and terrain for miles without damage. It is not indestructible so I carry a epoxy repair kit on expeditions with the potential for damage( hard landings in surf, on rocks, or shark attack!) It has waterproof hatches and foam bulkheads, and bungee cords on the deck to secure more gear externally. It is best to not put heavy items on the surface as it can affect balance. Boats as large as 22 feet are available, potentially larger with custom design. One can easily handle open ocean crossings and heavy seas with the proper boat and experience, to get you wherever you need to go. I have paddled in water 5 inches deep to water more than 200 fathoms and never lost confidence in the boat.

Living Inland? Not a problem, I have paddled on inland rivers against fast currents, portaged and paddled 80 miles through 10 lakes and creeks in 5 days and dragged the boat over dams and downed trees (while seated in the boat without having to get out). indigenous peoples paddled as their exclusive mode of transportation inland and for hunting for thousands of years, creating complex routes through river and lake systems, and crossing land and portages ranging from small, to EPIC to reach their destinations and goals, without any other option. This might not seem feasible to most people, but i recommend everyone get experience in a small self propelled craft because as the history from which these boats were created has consistently shown, these early native routes were what created the inland trade into canada, where massive portages would be undertaken with large "voyageur canoes", bigger than many sail boats and reach inland waterways thousands of miles from the sea. Following the St. Lawrence all the way through the Great Lakes More reasonably sized canoes are used regularly for inland travel recreationally, and if combined with other survival skills and well chosen and stocked gear, either a canoe or kayak could serve to discreetly and efficiently, and without need for fuel get you and others away from the madness with the means to escape to either a more prepared location, or if neccesary the means to reach offshore safety on coastal islands and self sustain indefinitely, or until environmental contamination or unbalanced hunting practices lead to this form of small scale subsistence becoming unsustainable, which is exactly why indigenous peoples who relied on kayaks died off, though many around the world still rely on small handmade craft to survive.

If everyone did it it clearly wouldnt work, but Aleutian Islanders in the far north survived solely off the sea as kayakers for thousands of years, with all the means of living provided for by the environment, and kept in careful balance. kayakers would go 15 miles out to sea for up to 3 days without water or food to hunt whales, seals, sea otters and walrus, as well as sea birds and fish which provided for a once flourishing civilization that only died off when the European Fur Traders discovered and over exploited their carefully balanced animal stocks. The kayaks themselves were made from the sea, and still could be if necesary, from mammal skin stitched together over a frame of driftwood and bone, coated with fat to seal the seams. Canoes could more practically be constructed in a pinch from natural materials more commonly available to most people in north america of course, birch canoes, and dugouts have been used throughout history and are still primary means of transport in many south american countries and island/coastal communities where dense jungles and wilderness make navigating networks of creeks and canals the only option for many communities to trade and travel, or where individuals are forced to rely on the sea as the aleutians once did. If necessary you can make reed boats and rafts from phragmites and other types of plants. Evidence has demonstrated that South american peoples crossed the Atlantic on such boats, (found in Coca buried with Egyptian Mummies, the coca plant being indigenous to south america). The theory has been tested by scientists and engineers who rebuilt a reed boat using only the materials available at the time and they successfully crossed the Atlantic. Just saying!

If you are worried about getting your boat to the water, there are Inflatable boats, but also Folding Kayaks. Folding boats are based off the traditional Inuit designs using skin-on-frame construction design principles, but made from modern materials and technology. Basically you have pieces of frame (made of wood, aluminum, plastic, fiberglass, carbon etc) that are assembled together with interlocking pieces to the shape of the boat, and a separate "skin" which is pulled tightley over the frame creating a sealed cockpit and storage area. these boats require more planning and care when using as the materials can become damaged, however they are rugged enough to get the job done if taken care of, and can be repaired on the fly as needed. there are several good companies, ask if you are interested and i can recommend. The major upside to this design is pootability and storage, most models fit in one or two bags (backpack, duffels) and can be travelled with on a plane, larger boat, IN a car or other vehicle, or carried directly to the water and then assembled. If you reach the end of your water trail, you can dissassemble and portage the boat to your next route.

I sincerely believe that for your average person, some solid skills, good wilderness and survival experience and navigational skills, well selected and proven gear, and a good reliable KAYAK are what you will need to survive. Get one for every member of your family, or get 2 person kayaks as appropriate for your needs of children, pets, etc. Not everyone is physically capable of relying on their body to drive their bug out vehicle, but if you run out of gas, and are on foot, its a lot harder to carry supplies than it is to paddle the weight distributed OFF your body. Plus its a lot easier to avoid other people, just gotta watch out for the "floaters"(zombies that wander into the water and cant swim but swell as they decompose, floating on the surface can grab your keel, deck lines, motor, anchor etc) Carry your gear, and all your seeds that you intend to plant when you arrive somewhere safe, means of storing and procuring water, with backups, and education of some traditional indigenous methods of collecting water and food. Specific to each geographic region and ecological variation in North America, you can guarantee that a Native tribe or tribes lived there at one point. Educate yourself about who they were, and then learn some of their specific skills either from actual living people, or from anthropology resources in libaries and museums. Some of the most effective tool designs and skills are those that took thousands of years to perfect. Too many people are ready to re invent the wheel when it comes to the best approach to survival, when it comes to choice of best tools and methods. Traditional hunters and fishermen, and many outdoors people know what i mean, because those skills we all consider a part of us, and couldnt imagine going out into the world without.

It takes more than just a good escape plan to survive and thrive, have a good head on your shoulders and use it, while i have crossed miles of the open North atlantic ocean in my kayak with confidence, i know there are times when i wont paddle 100 yards from shore. get experience and know your limits with whatever your plan of actions is good luck!
I would post a pic of my bug out kayak but i dont know how yet

[raptor]

Welcome to the forum NyE. When you get a chance please post an introduction on the introduction thread.

[Doctorr Fabulous]

Anyone with a bug-out boat must mount speakers and collect sea shanties, and Stryx's "Sailing Away" as a bug-out playlist.

[bae]

Anyone with a bug-out boat must mount speakers and collect sea shanties, and Stryx's "Sailing Away" as a bug-out playlist.

This is my soundtrack for it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxuaUaS4rU0

[Tater Raider]

Bug Out canoe purchased.

[averagemutt]

Cant wait to kit out a bug out canoe.

[Tater Raider]

Cant wait to kit out a bug out canoe.

I can't either. HPBOV's in storage.

[raptor]

Boats can be good BOVs in certain circumstance, but IMO poor BOL in most situations.

Heck, I've lived on mine for months at a time. All depends on the boat, your skills, and how you are equipped. Some folks here live on theirs year-round.

The reason I say that boats are not suitable for BOL is that all vessels require shore side support sooner or later. During the nine months you mentioned I am sure you refueled several times and used shore power several times. I am also sure you made several grocery runs. Fresh water is easy…as long as you have diesel for the generator or shore power.

I lived on a Gulfstar 50 for few years after college. I bought it in lieu of a house or condo...until the kids came along. It was great and very comfortable but even a sailboat required diesel, spare parts, food and ongoing shore side support.

A few years ago when I went cruising for 12 months, the need for diesel and supplies had not changed. A good blue water cruising vessel can be self sufficient for 6 months, but then they need fuel replacement parts and supplies …from shore.

All vessels from bluewater cruising boats to Giga yachts like Octopus to nuclear powered vessels, sooner or later need to pull into port for repairs, resupply and refitting. The other thing is the larger and more complex they are the more shore side support is required.

Like I said they can in the right situation with the right skills make quite good BOVs but I disagree that they can make acceptable BOL. Let me also add that the skills required may be simple and easy to learn. A coastal trip in sight of land is generally are easier and be done on the spurt of the moment as opposed to offshore voyages where you may be at sea for days and weeks at a time. Determine your planned route assess the needs and risks, compare those with your skills and vessel. Modify each as required to ensure a successful voyage.

[KnightoftheRoc]

raptor makes a good point. Even Columbus and the other explorers of his era, at sea for months, even years at a time (like Magellan's voyage around the world), had to put in to land for raw materials, re-supply of food and fresh water. And I don't think anyone would consider what they had at that time to be cutting edge technology by today's standards- they barely had the means to preserve food long term.

Being at sea, seems to me, is like being in a space ship- if you don't bring it with you, it doesn't exist as far as you're concerned. The only difference being you don't worry about running out of air- just everything else. I would think that a BO boat could be workable, but you'd have to stay close to land. Maybe not within sight of it, but close enough that you could BE within sight of it pretty quick- this would at least keep you out of sight FROM land. It also prevents anyone on land from helping if you need it, so it's a two-edged sword. But at least by staying near land, you could re-supply if required, and it WILL be required, sooner or later.

[Cherokee John]

How about these? http://www.seaeagle.com/LongBoard.aspx?keycode=GA&adGroup=LongBoard&gclid=CKmfzZjq1q4CFQYdpAod5ma8bw

They have a pretty good selection of other watercraft too. I won't get in a kayak anymore.

I have one of these.http://paddle-board.net/c4-waterman-isup-inflatable-review/

I've paddled up and down rivers, lakes, five miles off the coast in open water. Great for fishing. With a carbon made telescopic paddle it would all fit into a back pack.

I have a friend in Thailand who did flood relief on Stand Up boards during the last flood bringing in supplies to stranded folks. The inflatables are way more mobile and better when navigating rocks and obstacles.

[TacAir]

Boats can be good BOVs in certain circumstance, but IMO poor BOL in most situations.

Heck, I've lived on mine for months at a time. All depends on the boat, your skills, and how you are equipped. Some folks here live on theirs year-round.

The reason I say that boats are not suitable for BOL is that all vessels require shore side support sooner or later. During the nine months you mentioned I am sure you refueled several times and used shore power several times. I am also sure you made several grocery runs. Fresh water is easy…as long as you have diesel for the generator or shore power.

I lived on a Gulfstar 50 for few years after college. I bought it in lieu of a house or condo...until the kids came along. It was great and very comfortable but even a sailboat required diesel, spare parts, food and ongoing shore side support.

A few years ago when I went cruising for 12 months, the need for diesel and supplies had not changed. A good blue water cruising vessel can be self sufficient for 6 months, but then they need fuel replacement parts and supplies …from shore.

All vessels from bluewater cruising boats to Giga yachts like Octopus to nuclear powered vessels, sooner or later need to pull into port for repairs, resupply and refitting. The other thing is the larger and more complex they are the more shore side support is required.

Like I said they can in the right situation with the right skills make quite good BOVs but I disagree that they can make acceptable BOL. Let me also add that the skills required may be simple and easy to learn. A coastal trip in sight of land is generally are easier and be done on the spurt of the moment as opposed to offshore voyages where you may be at sea for days and weeks at a time. Determine your planned route assess the needs and risks, compare those with your skills and vessel. Modify each as required to ensure a successful voyage.

There is a lot to be said for planning.

1000 Days at Sea
Dude lived his homebulit 70 foot, 60 ton, gaff rigged schooner, for over 1152 days - at least, that was what he claimed. Worth a look to see what he food/gear/supplies were stocked and how he stocked it. Fun stuff, even if a bit off.

[raptor]

There is a lot to be said for planning.

1000 Days at Sea
Dude lived his homebulit 70 foot, 60 ton, gaff rigged schooner, for over 1152 days - at least, that was what he claimed. Worth a look to see what he food/gear/supplies were stocked and how he stocked it. Fun stuff, even if a bit off.

Indeed vessels routinely make extended voyages. The question is though what happens on day 1,153? At some point in time you need to make landfall, refit, refurbish, refuel and get groceries.

Being at sea is rough on any vessel. Sails chafe through, blocks and running rigging are under constant stress and strain, the hull and spars flex, motor vessels must keep an engine running for steerage way.

In theory you could travel to an isolated and protected anchorage (of which there are plenty) simply anchor and wait. This will minimize wear and tear as well as fuel consumption. If you added wind generators you could make electricity to reduce generator time. However, you still need at some point food. Yes you could fish to extend your food supplies, sooner or later you will run out of food.

However, if you are anchored, and why not simply go ashore. If you plan to do that why not plan ahead and purchase land in that area and prepare it ahead of time. Vessels require shore bases sooner or later.