.410 shotgun

[Ruppism]

i have a question it might be kinda noobish but ohwell so i heard from many people that you can fire .40cal out of a .410 but i rember when i was growing up my friends grandpa had a revovler that shot .45 long colt and .410 so im kinda confused on if its .40 or .45 long colt that can be fired from a .410 shotgun

[BigDaddyTX]

Well, it's .45LC AFAIK, but without a rifled barrel it isn't going to work like you think it will. Rifling makes bullets like throwing a perfect spiral on a football, without it it won't be stable in flight and will probably go all over the place, or end over end etc.

ETA: I wouldn't shoot it unless it's designed for it, it just seems unsafe or could ding up the barrel bouncing around or something.

[SavageArcher]

In order to fire a .45 LC out of a .410 you need to have the choke removed. Otherwise you stand to damage the muzzle of the gun.

[Doctorr Fabulous]

You need to remove the choke, but the gun has to be designed for it as well, otherwise the pressure difference between .410 and .45LC will make your shooting career a short one. Also, .410 kind of sucks in general (not gonna get much more than a big rabbit with it) and unrifled .45LC is kind of sucky as well. A .22LR rifle paired with a full-caliber pistol would be my choice.

[cv66er]

I was at a gun show earlier, looking at those Taurus Judge revolvers. It's a .45, with the cylinder stretched so you can fit a .410 cartridge into it. The dealer I was talking to said he'd never had anyone ask about the shot damaging the rifling in the barrel. Struck me as a bad idea, but he says they're popular. Maybe that's what the OP needs.

[Doctorr Fabulous]

I was at a gun show earlier, looking at those Taurus Judge revolvers. It's a .45, with the cylinder stretched so you can fit a .410 cartridge into it. The dealer I was talking to said he'd never had anyone ask about the shot damaging the rifling in the barrel. Struck me as a bad idea, but he says they're popular. Maybe that's what the OP needs.

Search boxotruth.com and look at his test on the Judge revolvers. The shot won't damage the rifling, but it will make a donut shaped shot pattern. Or search on ZS for numerous other links to articles on why we laugh at the Judge.

[cv66er]

A donut shaped shot pattern, hunh? So basically, it shoots everywhere but where it's pointing. For some people, this may not be a bad idea. I'll pass.

[SavageArcher]

I've shot the Judge in .410 before and for a 15 yd (maybe 20 yd at the best) rabbit gun its fine. It seems better for rattlesnakes, intruders in the bedroom and other close range propositions.

[HKTackDriver]

Speaking of the Judge. One came into the gun shop I frequent this weekend. the cylinder and trigger were completely frozen up. The owner said he'd fired a cylinder of 45lc, then switched to 410 to test and the first 410 fired caused the whole thing to lock up, including the trigger in the back position. He handed it to me and I unstuck the trigger (within about 2 seconds with nothing but a finger) but the hammer and trigger were still locked up solid. I thought it was probably something internal that gave up. First time I'd seen a new S&W fail.

[RickOShea]

A donut shaped shot pattern, hunh? So basically, it shoots everywhere but where it's pointing. For some people, this may not be a bad idea. I'll pass.

It actually shoots a decent pattern with #9s and 00 Buck. But pretty much anything inbetween those two and the pattern spirals off to the left of point-of-aim in an inconsistent pattern.

[RickOShea]

Speaking of the Judge. One came into the gun shop I frequent this weekend. the cylinder and trigger were completely frozen up. The owner said he'd fired a cylinder of 45lc, then switched to 410 to test and the first 410 fired caused the whole thing to lock up, including the trigger in the back position. He handed it to me and I unstuck the trigger (within about 2 seconds with nothing but a finger) but the hammer and trigger were still locked up solid. I thought it was probably something internal that gave up. First time I'd seen a new S&W fail.

Was it a Taurus Judge or a S&W Governor?

I've never had .410s lock-up the Judge, but the fired plastic hulls do swell-up to the point that you have to pretty much pick out the empties one-at-a-time.

[ben1022]

410/45LC and in some cases 454 Casull. I know Taurus has the market corned when it comes to firearms that run this combo. Speaking from experience (I own 2 different models of the JUDGE, The original model, and the PUBLIC DEFENDER model) I think they are great guns. DO NOT expect to reach out and touch anything past 20 yards unless you are using 45LC (or 454 in RAGING JUDGE models) in which cases i have reached out to 40 and 50 yards, NOTE: you have to compensate for bullet drop. (HICKOK45 on youtube does a great review of the JUDGE) But when it comes to bird/buck/PDX/HORNADY CD, your pattern spreads about 2 to 3 feet at about 20 yards.

When it comes to Long guns that fire the 410/45LC combo, i know of only 2 (im sure there are more though) the Taurus/Rossi Circuit JUDGE, and the H&R Single shot. When it comes to the circuit judge, I have heard mixed reviews. So do your research. The H&R on the other hand I own and it works great.

410/45LC are great loads, dont let anyone tell you different. So many people run their mouth saying they suck or are under powered or w/e. FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, they both will drop a deer (both i killed feild dressed at 200lbs each) with one shot. IMO if it will drop a deer, it will drop a man.

[Smash05]

I have the 410/45lc adapter for my 26.5mm flare gun. I only keep it for emergencies. It is sort of a survival version of the Liberator Pistol.

[Doctorr Fabulous]

I have the 410/45lc adapter for my 26.5mm flare gun. I only keep it for emergencies. It is sort of a survival version of the Liberator Pistol.

I hope you paid the tax stamp for it.

http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/05/050406-openletter-nfa-flare-inserts.html

ATF’s Firearms Technology Branch (FTB) is aware of an insert/sleeve designed to be installed in an Orion 25mm/12 gauge flare launcher that allows the use of conventional ammunition in these flare launchers. FTB was contacted by Orion, who indicated that these flare launchers are not designed to accept standard ammunition, and that the use of an adapter in conjunction with conventional ammunition would likely result in a catastrophic failure of the flare launcher.

If you did have one thtat would fire a standard pressure round...

It is the determination of FTB that if these inserts are installed in a flare launcher or are possessed with a flare launcher they would be classified as an “Any Other Weapon,” which is a firearm subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act (NFA).

Recap: because your flare gun is not a firearm per ATF, converting it to a .410/.45LC by use of an adapter (or any adapter used to convert it to a firearm) requires a Form 1 and $200 to manufacture a AOW (Any Other Weapon.) Basically this prevents those who could not own a firearm from manufacturing a 12ga pistol. IF you really want a cheap "Liberator" (gun that gets you do another, better gun) then a Bond Arms derringer (.45LC/.410) would be a much better option than constructive possession of an illegal AOW.

[doc66]

Speaking of the Judge. One came into the gun shop I frequent this weekend. the cylinder and trigger were completely frozen up. The owner said he'd fired a cylinder of 45lc, then switched to 410 to test and the first 410 fired caused the whole thing to lock up, including the trigger in the back position. He handed it to me and I unstuck the trigger (within about 2 seconds with nothing but a finger) but the hammer and trigger were still locked up solid. I thought it was probably something internal that gave up. First time I'd seen a new S&W fail.

Was it a Taurus Judge or a S&W Governor?

I've never had .410s lock-up the Judge, but the fired plastic hulls do swell-up to the point that you have to pretty much pick out the empties one-at-a-time.

He states that it was a SW. And your " pick out the empties one-at-a-time," is every reason why this should not be used at a defensive firearm. If you can't reload it, it's nothing more than a club, and not a very good one at that. There's a reason why people carried big knives and swords back in the day.

[Finch]

I have the 410/45lc adapter for my 26.5mm flare gun. I only keep it for emergencies. It is sort of a survival version of the Liberator Pistol.

I hope you paid the tax stamp for it.

http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/05/050406-openletter-nfa-flare-inserts.html

ATF’s Firearms Technology Branch (FTB) is aware of an insert/sleeve designed to be installed in an Orion 25mm/12 gauge flare launcher that allows the use of conventional ammunition in these flare launchers. FTB was contacted by Orion, who indicated that these flare launchers are not designed to accept standard ammunition, and that the use of an adapter in conjunction with conventional ammunition would likely result in a catastrophic failure of the flare launcher.

If you did have one thtat would fire a standard pressure round...

It is the determination of FTB that if these inserts are installed in a flare launcher or are possessed with a flare launcher they would be classified as an “Any Other Weapon,” which is a firearm subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act (NFA).

Recap: because your flare gun is not a firearm per ATF, converting it to a .410/.45LC by use of an adapter (or any adapter used to convert it to a firearm) requires a Form 1 and $200 to manufacture a AOW (Any Other Weapon.) Basically this prevents those who could not own a firearm from manufacturing a 12ga pistol. IF you really want a cheap "Liberator" (gun that gets you do another, better gun) then a Bond Arms derringer (.45LC/.410) would be a much better option than constructive possession of an illegal AOW.

Relax, it's rifled... its a pistol

http://www.cannonfuse.com/store/pc/-45- ... p11834.htm

[Doctorr Fabulous]

Carry on then. Hadn't seen that iteration, but there was a small ATF bust on guys doing rifled ones (no serial numbers and no manufacturing license) for .38SPL here over the holidays. It's cool that someone makes that legally. Needs a range report though (HINT HINT) for science.

[Smash05]

Carry on then. Hadn't seen that iteration, but there was a small ATF bust on guys doing rifled ones (no serial numbers and no manufacturing license) for .38SPL here over the holidays. It's cool that someone makes that legally. Needs a range report though (HINT HINT) for science.

I don't expect much accuracy - no sights, but at bad breath distances shouldn't matter. I consider it 90% novelty. I'll post some pics when I get home.

Here is the link for the product itself

http://kennesawcannon.com/subcaliberdevice.php

[Finch]

Carry on then. Hadn't seen that iteration, but there was a small ATF bust on guys doing rifled ones (no serial numbers and no manufacturing license) for .38SPL here over the holidays. It's cool that someone makes that legally. Needs a range report though (HINT HINT) for science.

You don't need a serial number I'd you make it for personal use.


I'm not sure it's productive to spout things you "think" are illegal

[Doctorr Fabulous]

Carry on then. Hadn't seen that iteration, but there was a small ATF bust on guys doing rifled ones (no serial numbers and no manufacturing license) for .38SPL here over the holidays. It's cool that someone makes that legally. Needs a range report though (HINT HINT) for science.

You don't need a serial number I'd you make it for personal use.


I'm not sure it's productive to spout things you "think" are illegal

Review the rules on the requirements for commercial production of firearms and get back to me.

ETA: Perhaps I worded the original poorly. ATF busted the guys who were making them to sell to people, who were not serializing them, had not applied for the manufacturing credentials (or even an FFL) and had not submitted a design for the firearm (which is what the adapter is, when it converts a non-firearm to fire .38SPL) and were generally in violation of several things.

But please, if you think I'm wrong on any of those violations I can link you to the ATF requirements, like I did when I first mentioned the adapters being a possible NFA issue, instead of just making broad claims. If it keeps one person from buying a 26.5 to 12ga adapter and trying to put a buckshot shell through it (or one of the others I linked) then I think it was quite productive, don't you?

[RickOShea]

Speaking of the Judge. One came into the gun shop I frequent this weekend. the cylinder and trigger were completely frozen up. The owner said he'd fired a cylinder of 45lc, then switched to 410 to test and the first 410 fired caused the whole thing to lock up, including the trigger in the back position. He handed it to me and I unstuck the trigger (within about 2 seconds with nothing but a finger) but the hammer and trigger were still locked up solid. I thought it was probably something internal that gave up. First time I'd seen a new S&W fail.

Was it a Taurus Judge or a S&W Governor?

I've never had .410s lock-up the Judge, but the fired plastic hulls do swell-up to the point that you have to pretty much pick out the empties one-at-a-time.

He states that it was a SW. And your " pick out the empties one-at-a-time," is every reason why this should not be used at a defensive firearm. If you can't reload it, it's nothing more than a club, and not a very good one at that. There's a reason why people carried big knives and swords back in the day.

Actually doc, he stated:

Speaking of the Judge. One came into the gun shop I frequent this weekend.....First time I'd seen a new S&W fail.

Hence my question for clarification.

[Finch]

Carry on then. Hadn't seen that iteration, but there was a small ATF bust on guys doing rifled ones (no serial numbers and no manufacturing license) for .38SPL here over the holidays. It's cool that someone makes that legally. Needs a range report though (HINT HINT) for science.

You don't need a serial number I'd you make it for personal use.


I'm not sure it's productive to spout things you "think" are illegal

Review the rules on the requirements for commercial production of firearms and get back to me.

rif

[Finch]

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19895

Please Post with Integrity by Kyle

This forum is getting quite popular so it will probably be a good idea to assume anyone will read this. With this in mind, please be careful what you post...

Don't post bullshit. People in here are skeptics and enjoy showing off so they will call you on it. This happens all the time. Go read the Thread Graveyard. There are professionals in here from all lines of work. If you claim you can fly a plane, tattoo, perform a segmentectomy or build a firearm from a block of wood then you better be able to because someone who can will more than likely try to talk to you about it then you have to deal with the embarrassment of being called out on your lie.


Bottom line: Be honest and if you can't stand by what you post then don't post it. There's no reason to try to artificially impress us. We're a nice group of guys and girls in here and we'll like you anyway as long as you're not a tool.

[Doctorr Fabulous]

See the edit. I didn't make it clear in my original post that they were making and selling them. Or are you accusing me of lying about the whole thing, including the ATF letter I linked that prompted me to post about it in the first place?