Another Lesson in Situational Awareness

[smokinbunta]

Best way to handle a crowd if it isn't zombies is to tugg an ear off one of them and show it, they come off surprisingly easy if ou have a good grip and a mans arm, and most of the time it stops a fight. that was training I received that and a hard kick to the nuts with a steel toe stops most anything, even with a cup, just get the toes to catch it and they go down.

Most hilarious post I've read in ages.

Were you training to fight Mr Potato Head?

Wouldn't it be better if you just took Mr. Potatoe's arms off, kind of destroys his ability to fight. Then show it to the rest of the potatoes, total destruction.

wasn't tearing the arms off ur opponent 1 of Jax's finish moves in Mortal Kombat?? i know someone had the move...

[jamoni]

Best way to handle a crowd if it isn't zombies is to tugg an ear off one of them and show it, they come off surprisingly easy if ou have a good grip and a mans arm, and most of the time it stops a fight. that was training I received that and a hard kick to the nuts with a steel toe stops most anything, even with a cup, just get the toes to catch it and they go down.

Small target, difficult manipulation, low percentage move...Vs. 8 guys kicking you.
Those are Vegas odds, fella.

[Murph]

And I lol!

[Kutter_0311]

Here at ZS, it takes all kinds, and we're proud of that!

Now politely inform the guy why ear-pulling isn't a viable strategy.

[Regular Guy]

Here at ZS, it takes all kinds, and we're proud of that!

Now politely inform the guy why ear-pulling isn't a viable strategy.

Jamoni already told him why. And just an add on, you yank someone's ear off; you're going to jail, probably lose the case and be held liable for the guys medical bills. Weird shit like that doesn't go well in court.

[Rugger]

So wait... It sounds like some people are advocating shooting someone who assaults them. Am I reading that right?

Absofuckinglutely. Anytime I am attacked I am in fear of my life. One lucky punch/kick/fall and you can die. Happens all the time. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

ETA: Now that I've read through the entire thread, I still have the same opinion. At least you have a fighting chance against those multiple attackers in court. And that's if it ever goes to court. Once again, glad I live in Texas. We even have the right of "Fresh Pursuit".

[Doctorr Fabulous]

Ultimate fight winner:



Beats an ear, any day.

Also, going for extremities might not work.



Clearly with both arms missing, he is still a threat.

[squinty]

So wait... It sounds like some people are advocating shooting someone who assaults them. Am I reading that right?

Absofuckinglutely. Anytime I am attacked I am in fear of my life. One lucky punch/kick/fall and you can die. Happens all the time. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

ETA: Now that I've read through the entire thread, I still have the same opinion. At least you have a fighting chance against those multiple attackers in court. And that's if it ever goes to court. Once again, glad I live in Texas. We even have the right of "Fresh Pursuit".

I don't know. I've been attacked by people who didn't seem to pose a serious threat to my life, and managed to deal with them by other means. Not every unarmed attacker can reasonably be presumed to pose an imminent threat to your life - and shooting an unarmed person would be a hard hard sell to a jury, either way. Even in Texas. I like the right of fresh pursuit - you should be able to chase attackers away, and makes sure they stay away/keep moving away from you or your property.

It is quite possible for an unarmed attacker to pose such a danger, and certainly a mob or group of unarmed attackers trying to drag you to the ground and kick you is a dire threat. And in such cases where I am afraid for my life I'll do what I have to and then do the best I can in court afterwards. But not every unarmed attacker has the intention, or capability, of killing you.

[squinty]

[Regular Guy]

It is quite possible for an unarmed attacker to pose such a danger, and certainly a mob or group of unarmed attackers trying to drag you to the ground and kick you is a dire threat. And in such cases where I am afraid for my life I'll do what I have to and then do the best I can in court afterwards. But not every unarmed attacker has the intention, or capability, of killing you.

Yeah, an attacker has to have the ability to kill you for there to be a justification of deadly force. A grandma in a wheel chair with a baseball bat versus a fit male in good health with full mobility is not a justification for lethal force. The law looks at this as the male having the ability to escape.

[squinty]

It is quite possible for an unarmed attacker to pose such a danger, and certainly a mob or group of unarmed attackers trying to drag you to the ground and kick you is a dire threat. And in such cases where I am afraid for my life I'll do what I have to and then do the best I can in court afterwards. But not every unarmed attacker has the intention, or capability, of killing you.

Yeah, an attacker has to have the ability to kill you for there to be a justification of deadly force. A grandma in a wheel chair with a baseball bat versus a fit male in good health with full mobility is not a justification for lethal force. The law looks at this as the male having the ability to escape.

Well, in some places the male has no obligation to escape, or no duty to retreat, so that's irrelevant. But he still would have a hard time claiming he thought death or serious was imminent vs. wheelchair lady, and I doubt Rugger would shoot her. I've had people swing at me or put their hands on me because they were upset or offended by something I said (I know that's hard to believe about me, but it's happened) and all I had to do was pin their arms for a couple seconds or push them away and warn them, until they calmed down again and got over their outburst. No weapon necessary. Not all assaults are alike, they don't all rate the same response.

[Regular Guy]

It is quite possible for an unarmed attacker to pose such a danger, and certainly a mob or group of unarmed attackers trying to drag you to the ground and kick you is a dire threat. And in such cases where I am afraid for my life I'll do what I have to and then do the best I can in court afterwards. But not every unarmed attacker has the intention, or capability, of killing you.

Yeah, an attacker has to have the ability to kill you for there to be a justification of deadly force. A grandma in a wheel chair with a baseball bat versus a fit male in good health with full mobility is not a justification for lethal force. The law looks at this as the male having the ability to escape.

Well, in some places the male has no obligation to escape, or no duty to retreat, so that's irrelevant. But he still would have a hard time claiming he thought death or serious was imminent vs. wheelchair lady, and I doubt Rugger would shoot her. I've had people swing at me or put their hands on me because they were upset or offended by something I said (I know that's hard to believe about me, but it's happened) and all I had to do was pin their arms for a couple seconds or push them away and warn them, until they calmed down again and got over their outburst. No weapon necessary. Not all assaults are alike, they don't all rate the same response.

I concur. Not every nail needs a hammer.

[Rugger]

I don't know. I've been attacked by people who didn't seem to pose a serious threat to my life, and managed to deal with them by other means. Not every unarmed attacker can reasonably be presumed to pose an imminent threat to your life - and shooting an unarmed person would be a hard hard sell to a jury, either way. Even in Texas. I like the right of fresh pursuit - you should be able to chase attackers away, and makes sure they stay away/keep moving away from you or your property.
It is quite possible for an unarmed attacker to pose such a danger, and certainly a mob or group of unarmed attackers trying to drag you to the ground and kick you is a dire threat. And in such cases where I am afraid for my life I'll do what I have to and then do the best I can in court afterwards. But not every unarmed attacker has the intention, or capability, of killing you.

9 times out of 10, I will assume my life is in danger. That doesn't mean I draw a weapon and fire instantly though. It means that "my life is in danger" will be my starting point on how my decisions are initially made in that type of situation. IMO, it's easier and safer to ratchet down from that threat level, after a more thorough evaluation has been made, versus ratcheting it up as it potentially escalates. You may get to "your life is in danger" too late. Better safe than dead. Besides, I'm a scrawny little puss and get scared easily.
While Fresh Pursuit is handy, I don't know about chasing them. What it does allow you to do is fire at them as they are fleeing. Hopefully from a secure (and steady) position.

Yeah, an attacker has to have the ability to kill you for there to be a justification of deadly force. A grandma in a wheel chair with a baseball bat versus a fit male in good health with full mobility is not a justification for lethal force. The law looks at this as the male having the ability to escape.

Not necessarily, at least in Texas. But in principle, I agree. No need to off grandma. Just find some stairs.

Well, in some places the male has no obligation to escape, or no duty to retreat, so that's irrelevant. But he still would have a hard time claiming he thought death or serious was imminent vs. wheelchair lady, and I doubt Rugger would shoot her. I've had people swing at me or put their hands on me because they were upset or offended by something I said (I know that's hard to believe about me, but it's happened) and all I had to do was pin their arms for a couple seconds or push them away and warn them, until they calmed down again and got over their outburst. No weapon necessary. Not all assaults are alike, they don't all rate the same response.

No, I would not shoot Grandma, unless she had a gun. And yes, I've had to do the same thing a couple of times. Full nelson and then, if they continue to be a meany, to the ground. Generally with me coming down on top of them. I like being on top.

ETA: fixed quotes

[Czechnology]

A number of incidents occurred in downtown Baltimore last week. Same scenario they jumped a few people at the inner harbor, the  big tourist trap in the city, then  went to the business district on Pratt st and repeated the process. In the middle of the day, right in major public places. 

To be fair, Baltimore is an odd assemblage of extreme poverty shoe-horned into "Tourist" areas. It's pretty easy to hit the harbor and then disappear up Eutaw into urban decay.

[Murph]

Wow.... this thread has gone "Full Retard"

[Rugger]

Wow.... this thread has gone "Full Retard"

I do what I can.

[Czechnology]

They are the zombies.

Also, it should be noted that ZS does NOT use the word "Zombie" as a metaphor for any living person.

Please review forum rules before posting again. The above is clearly outlined there. Zombies are a metaphor for disaster, not something we call people we don't like.

[the_alias]

It will always be easier to defend yourself in court if you are not explaining why you were shooting someone in the back while they are running away.

[Yrkoon9]

You have THREE fights on your hands in these situations:

1) The immediate threat.
2) Criminal courts.
3) Civilian courts.

You have to be able to win all three with confidence.

Some people have the instincts to defend themselves. Some people have the training to defend themselves. So if you manage to win the first fight you now have to deal with the second - and unfortunately the police don't have a universal ruleset they use to determine arrest and blame - kinda hit or miss here, so be extra careful when dealing with the legal ramifications. Unfortunately the third fight is the toughest - you can win the first two and lose the third. It doesn't make sense sometimes but our legal system rarely does.

[WY_Not]

Depends on your location. In a number of states, part of the Castle Doctrine law is that if you are not charged criminally or if you are found not-guilty criminally, then the family/estate can't come after you civilly.

You have THREE fights on your hands in these situations:

1) The immediate threat.
2) Criminal courts.
3) Civilian courts.

You have to be able to win all three with confidence.

Some people have the instincts to defend themselves. Some people have the training to defend themselves. So if you manage to win the first fight you now have to deal with the second - and unfortunately the police don't have a universal ruleset they use to determine arrest and blame - kinda hit or miss here, so be extra careful when dealing with the legal ramifications. Unfortunately the third fight is the toughest - you can win the first two and lose the third. It doesn't make sense sometimes but our legal system rarely does.

[zombiekid101]

Disgusting. Should be rounded up and made to get in a rind with a pro boxer.

[AwPhuch]

In Texas

A. Sec. 9.33. DEFENSE OF THIRD PERSON. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect a third person if:
(1) under the circumstances as the actor reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.31 or 9.32 in using force or deadly force to protect himself against the unlawful force or unlawful deadly force he reasonably believes to be threatening the third person he seeks to protect; and
(2) the actor reasonably believes that his intervention is immediately necessary to protect the third person.

B. Ability means that the other person has the power to kill or to cripple you.
Opportunity means that the circumstances are such that the other person would be able to use his ability against you.
Jeopardy means that the other person's actions or words provide you with a reasonably-perceived belief that he intends to kill you or cripple you.

C. Only things that need to be spoken to the officers "I shot to stop the threat, and I was afraid my/their life was in mortal danger"

D. Shutup!!! If you have a good shoot (all shoots go to a grand jury) you are protected from Civil lawsuit.

If you ever happen upon a group of thugs stomping someone on the ground...would you defend anothers life?

P.S. If your situational awareness (aka operating in condition orange while under the posession of a firearm) and you LET a group of thugs get the drop on you...you have already LOST the fight!

[flsgear]

This is the kind of sh*t I have a concealed carry permit and a 45 for. That said...

If you have none or cannot use it - have an iron will and ferocity. I had this happen to me on two separate occasions while going to steel high (local school I went to about 17-25 years ago) except they called it 'swooping' back then and they didn't wait real long before jumping in with all their 10-20 buddies. Let's just say you kick, fight, punch, claw and bite enough people (even on their ankles) they will get the point (at least in my experience) that messing with you will only incur harm to themselves on a level that is not desirous. And this was BEFORE I started really taking martial arts.

WHY I was a target:
I was a nerdy, small, skinny white kid in a nearly all black, low income school. You do the math. Criminals will go after PERCEIVED easy targets. The goal you should have is to change their perception, however forcibly that may be.

[Basil Duke]

As a follow-up to a recent "Knock Out" assault on Grand Avenue - a major north-south road on St. Louis City's south side: Yesterday, the accused perps (six thugs aged 12 to 14) were released from custody because the only witness to the attack failed to show in court. The victim, a guy in his early 50s, had been knocked down and stomped until his jaw was broken. Bizarrely, he was saved from even worse injuries only because the mayor of St. Louis happened to drive by the scene and stopped, with his body guard - at which point the thugs scurried away. Unfortunately, neither the mayor nor his bodyguard managed to get visuals on the attackers. The only witness was a 13-year-old girl - who had apparently been threatened and cowed into withdrawing her original testimony. After being released from custody, the thugs and their families high-fived each other and hollered triumphantly in the hall outside the courtroom, according to local media reports.