7.62 x 39. Sweet music to my ears!

[raptorman]

Yes, the AK is much heavier than my CAR-15 due to the wooden stock, however, it doesn't really pull high and to the right as much.

Is the extra weight from the stock lowering the recoil?

Would a heavier barrel help that as well? Maybe look into getting a heavier barrel for it, Jamoni.

Yes, the heavier "furniture" does lower the recoil.

[kyle]

Something else to think about when deciding between those two rifles would be the weight. How big is the difference between say 500+ rounds of 5.56 vs. 7.62?
Of course with the 7.62, as long as you can hit the mark, you don't have to worry as much about the bullet not re-killing your target so you might not have to carry as much ammunition.

[jamoni]

The recoil on mine is manageable, and I'm a small guy. I think wood stocks would make it better. As for sights, I found these:

http://www.blackjackbuffers.com/bjbcatalog3.html
They have one large picatinny rail on the bottom, and two small ones on the side. Just right for a flashlight, laser sight, and bipod. Not that I would normally consider a bipod on this thing, but I'm going to get one for my .22 when I get rails for it, so why not mix and match? And I'll get that weaver setup I mentioned.
BTW, I stripped the thing down tonight, and I'm like, "Where are the rest of the parts?" There's only like 6 moving parts on the damn thing! Sweet!

[jamoni]

Hey, Raptorman, you take that AK to the range yet? How's about a report? Also, how's your new ar15 measure up to the old one?
I took the Saiga out this weekend, and no complaints so far. Ran about 100 rds through it, and I was keeping it in the black at 50 yards, and on the paper at 100, iron sights unadjusted. No misfires, no problems. It's just a good gun. Gotta get some more magazines. Shot the .22 as well, had some feed problems, dirty magazine I think, or bad spring. But I was getting 3 inch groups at 75 yards.

[raptorman]

Hey, Raptorman, you take that AK to the range yet? How's about a report? Also, how's your new ar15 measure up to the old one?
I took the Saiga out this weekend, and no complaints so far. Ran about 100 rds through it, and I was keeping it in the black at 50 yards, and on the paper at 100, iron sights unadjusted. No misfires, no problems. It's just a good gun. Gotta get some more magazines. Shot the .22 as well, had some feed problems, dirty magazine I think, or bad spring. But I was getting 3 inch groups at 75 yards.

Yeah, I have put 500 rounds into the AK so far. My new gun is actually a CAR-97, but IMO it's the same thing as a CAR-15. The 97 is better quality. The AK is LOUD as fuck, and kicks more, but is more satisfying to shoot. Also my AK pulls a little more high and right than I think it should. Cheap russian ammo is fun.

[Geist]

Something else to think about when deciding between those two rifles would be the weight. How big is the difference between say 500+ rounds of 5.56 vs. 7.62?

5.56mm NATO ammunition weights only 47% as much as 7.62mm NATO ammunition. Thats 500 rounds of 5.56 vs 235 rounds of 7.62

--Geist

[kyle]

5.56mm NATO ammunition weights only 47% as much as 7.62mm NATO ammunition. Thats 500 rounds of 5.56 vs 235 rounds of 7.62
--Geist

Sorry. I wasn't specific. I was thinking of the 7.62x39 rounds not the 7.62x51 (or .308 Winchester). The rounds used in AKs. Those are a bit smaller than the NATO rounds.

[jamoni]

You know, I always wanted to be the guy at the range whose guns everyone eyes, and asks "What the hell is that?" Now I am! My task for this week is to build a 4 gun rolling case, so that when I get the Saiga shotgun and whatever other weird thing I get, I can cart them all to the range in style.
I'm thinking about one of these:
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewIt ... m=18495983
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewIt ... m=18634844
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewIt ... m=18557199
I've wanted a thunder five ever since they came out. Couldn't even tell you why. I bet it'd make a good trail gun, though. For snakes and such.

[Joe Ghoul]

I like the looks of those Saiga shotguns. There were some pretty good reviews floating around the net when they first hit the market.
Having a box fed 12 gauge would be pretty cool. Wouldn't use it for a primary defense weapon, but just for fun.

[jamoni]

Took this gun out to some land where I could REALLY put it through it's paces. LOTS of fun. Rapid fire on this thing is hard, because the muzzle jumps so much, but it's do-able. Put a lot of holes in a lot of dead trees. Still functioning perfectly, went through about 100 rounds, so I'm closing in on 500 rounds without a single malfunction.

[jamoni]

Okay, upon further reflection, if you can get an AK for a reasonable price, do so, and forget the Saiga. It's one huge deficiency is a 10 rd magazine. It does not take regular ak mags, and this REALLY hampers it's usefullness in a PAW world (or for happily defeating dead trees.) I still really like it, but I think reloading three times as often as my buddies would catch up to me eventually.

[jamoni]

Yes, I know it's annoying to post after myself. Sorry. Just got a new sling for the Saiga, which should make things more fun. Or at least make things a little more accurate and easy to carry.

[kyle]

Yes, I know it's annoying to post after myself. Sorry. Just got a new sling for the Saiga, which should make things more fun. Or at least make things a little more accurate and easy to carry.

how does the sling make it more accurate? Is the sling ported?

[jamoni]

No, you wrap the sling around your left forearm, and it locks the rifle in a little tighter, helping reduce wavering. Helps mainly when firing standing, but also from the bench or prone.

[jamoni]

I'd say the sling helped quite a bit! I know this is only at 25 yards, but I ah, um, well, I forgot to bring a box of ammo, so I only had 30 rounds to play with. Oops.

[raptorman]

That's it Jamoni. You better be bringing those targets out to one hundred yards next time, or else!

Unless you were just sighting it in.

[jamoni]

I started with pistol at 7 yards. Went out to 15 yards (there's a reason you don't get to see any of those targets )
Then took the rifle out to 25 yards and popped of three magazines. I had fully intended to take it out to 100, but I went to take it out to 50, and realized I had left my ammo box at the house . So I had to close up shop and go home. Luckily I did enough pistol shooting to hold me over.

[dascoyne]

The AK is a fantastic design. Enjoy that affordable ammo, too!
I don't have one - but I have a few friends who do.
If you like the design and want to use .223 consider the Valmet. One of my buddies let me handle his (I haven't shot it yet), but it's another great rifle.

I don't shoot .223 out to very long distance. My Colt HBAR-II flattop is primarily for encounters inside 100 yards. It has a 16" heavy barrel (which I may swap in the future), a "Compass Lake" 2-stage trigger and a 3-point SOP sling.

The 3-point sling is a useful invention for the tactical carbine. If the user needs a quick transition to pistol the carbine can be dropped so it falls flush against the front of the body.

In the future I'll probably add a Surefire light, (and maybe a vertical handgrip and picatinny rails to support them). At some point I might consider an Aimpoint Comp M2 sight.

I also have an FN-FAL 18" Belgian Congo .308. That gun is my baby - I love it! Shoots straight and hits hard. My AR is like a pellet-gun compared to it.

(sorry for the digression...)

[jamoni]

No problem at all. I'm looking into a bolt action .308 or .30-06. That'll probably be the next firearm I buy. Right around the time I get out of debt from the last two.
Any suggestions on makes or actions? I'm trying to keep it under $500.

[jamoni]

Heh. SOMEBODY (who's name starts with "K") and I can now swap ammo.

[grim]

You know, I always wanted to be the guy at the range whose guns everyone eyes, and asks "What the hell is that?" Now I am! My task for this week is to build a 4 gun rolling case, so that when I get the Saiga shotgun and whatever other weird thing I get, I can cart them all to the range in style.
I'm thinking about one of these:
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewIt ... m=18495983
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewIt ... m=18634844
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewIt ... m=18557199
I've wanted a thunder five ever since they came out. Couldn't even tell you why. I bet it'd make a good trail gun, though. For snakes and such.

Has anyone heard anything about the keltech .223, my primary weapon is my shotgun but if there was a rifle that breaks down small enuff it would be nice to pac as a spare.

[kyle]

Heh. SOMEBODY (who's name starts with "K") and I can now swap ammo.

True dat.

Has anyone heard anything about the keltech .223, my primary weapon is my shotgun but if there was a rifle that breaks down small enuff it would be nice to pac as a spare.

I've held one but that's about it. However, I've read numerous times that if they did it over they would spend the money on a real rifle that fires a .223
Those kaltechs are pricy.
If you want a portable to toss in your pack get a Henry Arms AR-7.

[grim]

thanks Ill look into that.

[jamoni]

My beef with the keltech is that the WHOLE receiver is molded plastic. there aren't even metal inserts, so the bolt just slides on plastic. I know the modern polymers are tough, and all, but..... I'd go with a CAR15. If you get a lightweight one, with a collapsible or folding stock (LEGAL NOW, whoopee!) it can be broken down as well. You just pull the takedown pins out, wrap it to keep out dirt, voilas!