COMS and COMSEC

[materielgeneral]

COMS and COMSEC



For most preppers, they are not going to be able to afford any exotic and expensive radio systems. Most will be using a FRS/GMRS radios. Try to buy the best ones that you can. Remember that just because it says it can transmit 20 Miles, it wont. Its rated 20 miles on flat terrain that has no trees or other obstructions. After adding in the hills and trees you will get lucky with 3 miles out of it. Make sure the model you pick will have sub- channels on it. It will lower your chance that some one will monitor your conversation. Make sure you buy one that has a place for a push to talk ear bud to plug in.

I like and prefer the Garmin Rino series of radios. They combine the FRS/GMRS radio with a GPS. If you pay extra for the map software you can download topo maps to the GPS.

The series 110-130 are basically the same with the exception of memory. the higher the number the more memory.

The Rino 520 and higher series are a lot better of a system. The GPS is stronger. You can be inside of a house, vehicle or under heavy tree cover such as being in a Cedar Swamp. You also have a stronger radio. You can choose 1/2 watt, 2 watt or 5 watt for the GMRS. The FRS portion of the radio is set at 1/2 watt. You have an option of using the sub channels and you can use the scramble option. This is the probably closest a normal civilian can come to incryption. Be aware though that anybody with a rino can hear you if they have there scramble turned on and they are on the right channel.

FYI, in normal peace time civilazation you need a lisence to use the GMRS frequencies. If SHTF I dont think the FCC is going to give a crap what you use. Nobody I know pays attention to this rule anyways, use your own discression.

Within all the Rino series, you can name your radio and other rino users can see where you are at. You can turn this option off or on as you see fit for security.

The good thing is that the Rino series radios are not sold on every street corner, and everybody will not have one. Goe to http://www.garmin.com and you can compare the radios side by side. My first purchase was a Rino 110 several years ago. Wifey bought me a 520hcx for Christmas this year. I love it.

Many military members use the Rino radio system for un official radio traffic when they are in the field.

On another forum, radio location systems were mentioned where somebody can track you by your radio signals. I hold no fear of those devices. How many John Does do you know that has one of these? I do not know of no one, besides the government. If the government is looking for you you are screwed anyways.

That does not mean you dont use good COMSEC (communication security) Use code words and change them often. Use a Brevity Matrix, for example it's basically a spread sheet. Use numbers across the top and the alphabet letter down the left side. In all of the squares to the right of the letters and below the numbers you will put pre printed warnings, requirements or what ever you can think of. Use this on the radio instead of a lengthy transmission. For example "Red six, this is Red two. 7-Charlie". 7-Charlie could mean all is clear. How would you know that? On your Brevity Matrix you would go across to the number 7, then you would go down the #7 column to where the C column meets the 7 column. In that box would be "All is clear". Very simple and proficient. Make several different ones so you have different searies. Every 24 hours you would switch to a different searies and so on in case one searies was captured.

To minimize your radio traffic, you would want to have military field radios for your observation and listening posts. These phones use a wire to communicate instead of sending a radio wave.

Something else you can use for communication is flares and smoke. I just bought a 26.5mm flare gun and some parachute flares. These flares are great, it will let you see for about 3-5 seconds before they burn out. This would give you plenty of light to see who is attacking your perimeter and his strength. You can buy different normal flares such as red, red burst, white, green etc. Different color could mean different things. Your imagination is its limits. Use the red flare as a were screwed warning, evacuate the retreat location to the pre planned rally point.

The draw back is that these flares are starting to dry up on the surplus market. You can buy an insert to allow you to use 12gauge boating flares in the 26.5mm gun. In most states you do not need a license to purchase.

You can also buy a perimeter tripwire 12guage warning device. They come with a blank, but you can buy a flare, teargas or a leathal round for it. If the administration of this site will allow me, I will add links to these devises. or email me at materielgeneral at yahoo. Keep in mind booby man traps are extremely illegal during peace time. As of this writing it is still legal to buy teargas grenades. If might be nice to have some of these to use to defend your perimeter.

Hope this helped some one with there preperations,

Ken





People sleep peacefully at night because rough men stand ready to do violence upon thier behalf.

[zommoz10]

C
On another forum, radio location systems were mentioned where somebody can track you by your radio signals. I hold no fear of those devices. How many John Does do you know that has one of these? I do not know of no one, besides the government. If the government is looking for you you are screwed anyways.

You don't need any special devices to direction find a transmitter's location. Most people just use a directional antenna and for that matter, an ordinary UHF directional TV antenna hooked to a police scanner will do the job. You don't really even need that. GMRS portables are so low power, you can just use another handheld portable and start walking in the direction of the least amount of static.

[44Dave]

C
On another forum, radio location systems were mentioned where somebody can track you by your radio signals. I hold no fear of those devices. How many John Does do you know that has one of these? I do not know of no one, besides the government. If the government is looking for you you are screwed anyways.

You don't need any special devices to direction find a transmitter's location. Most people just use a directional antenna and for that matter, an ordinary UHF directional TV antenna hooked to a police scanner will do the job. You don't really even need that. GMRS portables are so low power, you can just use another handheld portable and start walking in the direction of the least amount of static.

Too true, but how many random people know to do that? I'd plan for the possibility but it wouldn't be my #1 concern.

[materielgeneral]

[/quote]Too true, but how many random people know to do that? I'd plan for the possibility but it wouldn't be my #1 concern.[/quote]


Exactly my thinking, I dont think checking for radio signals would be a priority for a bunch of refugees.

[KJ4VOV]

Exactly my thinking, I dont think checking for radio signals would be a priority for a bunch of refugees.

Depends on the refugees. If there's a ham amongst them, you can bet your last energy bar he/she will be listening.

[materielgeneral]

Exactly my thinking, I dont think checking for radio signals would be a priority for a bunch of refugees.

Depends on the refugees. If there's a ham amongst them, you can bet your last energy bar he/she will be listening.

:
But would a refugee be walking around with a ham? Can a ham pick up mgrs/first freq?

[44Dave]

Exactly my thinking, I dont think checking for radio signals would be a priority for a bunch of refugees.

Depends on the refugees. If there's a ham amongst them, you can bet your last energy bar he/she will be listening.

:
But would a refugee be walking around with a ham? Can a ham pick up mgrs/first freq?

I can.

[crypto]

But would a refugee be walking around with a ham? Can a ham pick up mgrs/first freq?

Yes, and yes. GMRS is just UHF FM.

[SteveD]

Very cool write up materielgeneral.
And any ham would also probably have a cb stashed somewhere too.

[TacAir]

Off the shelf
http://www.dopsys.com/products/productsMPT.html

Extensive list (of links) of active T hunter clubs - (17 in SoCal alone)

RadioSport - DFing as fun - and it is fun
http://www.homingin.com/

Look for yourself under RadioSport or FoxHunting. Tons of Utoob vids, club sites - worldwide.

military stuff - 'Old Crow' makes a good starting point.

I actually worked, for several years, with the folks that do this in the military. IF they are looking you you....you will be found if you have any kind of active emitter.

Nothing magic, just very good equipment and training. They have been at it for a very long time. One of their first successes: The recovery of Gen Dozier from the Red Brigade. To wit:
An ISA SIGINT team was sent to Italy, and used electronic detection devices from special helicopters and on the ground to monitor radio communications. ISA provided useful intelligence, enabling Italian police to arrest several Red Brigades terrorists in mid-January 1982.
Although the way the Italian police were able to locate General Dozier in late January was never disclosed, it is suspected that it is the result of ISA's SIGINT specialists. General Dozier was freed by NOCS operators 28 January 1982 - as close to open source demo as you'll get on the capabilities of military SigInt operations...

As far as power levels - I've seen these guy track down a local oscillator in a home stereo (picowatts of power) that was causing issues -- from almost two miles away.

The best COMSEC (as refereed to in this post) is to leave the radios off

[shrapnel]

Materielgeneral, I realize that you posted this before someone said anything in your other thread, so I'm not going to give you an unofficial warning. Additionally, this thread has generated useful discussion, so I'm not going to lock it.

But.

Booby traps aren't something we talk about here, and you absolutely may not post information about how to make them. We also don't condone discussions about illegal activity in the form of using radio bands that you aren't authorized to use. Please read our rules, here http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19895 and keep your posts within the confines of them in the future.

Thank you, and feel free to send me or any other moderator a PM if you have questions.

[doitnstyle1]

What about creating a CEOI (Communications-Electronics Operating instructions)
This gives you frequencies, frequency changes every 6 hours, Call Signs, encryption, Authentication tables and time sensitive challenges and passwords all in a handy little book. I have started my own and it is labor intensive but I think it would be worth it's weight on gold once complete. we used to use these in the old school military before all this encryption electronics in miniature came into play.

[crypto]

Well, you arent allowed to use any codes or ciphers on amateur bands.

Now, that obviously all goes out the window in the PAW, but Ive heard crotchety old men on ham bands insist that even using 10-codes for things constitutes a prohibited cipher.

[KJ4VOV]

Exactly my thinking, I dont think checking for radio signals would be a priority for a bunch of refugees.

Depends on the refugees. If there's a ham amongst them, you can bet your last energy bar he/she will be listening.

:
But would a refugee be walking around with a ham? Can a ham pick up mgrs/first freq?

With a US population of about 300 million, and about 700,000 licensed hams, that gives you one ham for roughly every 425 people. Now, admittedly, not every ham has the gear or technical expertise to foxhunt, but my personal experience is that a surprisingly high number of them do have the technical knowledge, and gear is easy enough to make, so let's say that 500,000 could track you down. That's still one out of every 600 people, and hams tend to be preppers to a certain extent, so it's pretty likely that any well prepared group is going to contain at least one ham.

[Kutter_0311]

Well, you arent allowed to use any codes or ciphers on amateur bands.

Now, that obviously all goes out the window in the PAW, but Ive heard crotchety old men on ham bands insist that even using 10-codes for things constitutes a prohibited cipher.

So, what about call-signs, rally point designations, stuff like that? What's this "prohibited cipher" stuff?

I know jack and shit about civ radio, so any help there would help...

[williaty]

So, what about call-signs, rally point designations, stuff like that? What's this "prohibited cipher" stuff?

Basically, you have to communicate in such a way that anyone listening, even if they don't know you, don't know your slang, don't know the verbal shorthand you and your friends use have to be able to understand the full meaning of your transmission. For example "It's in that place I hid that thing that time" is technically illegal if both you and your recipient know that you're not just old, you actually mean "In the shed, under the floor, in the safe". Similarly, "Location 4" is technically illegal. In practice, however, even the Hams that volunteer their time to monitor the bands for rule violations won't report you unless it's pretty obvious that your intent is to hide the meaning from other people listening.

[TacAir]

Well, you arent allowed to use any codes or ciphers on amateur bands.

Now, that obviously all goes out the window in the PAW, but Ive heard crotchety old men on ham bands insist that even using 10-codes for things constitutes a prohibited cipher.

So, what about call-signs, rally point designations, stuff like that? What's this "prohibited cipher" stuff?

I know jack and shit about civ radio, so any help there would help...

Well the Federal Candy Company sez
Q: What types of communications are specifically prohibited?
Section 97.113 contains the specific prohibitions. In summary, your amateur station may not transmit:

Communications specifically prohibited by the Rules;
Communications for hire or for material compensation, direct or indirect, paid or promised, except as otherwise provided in the Rules;
Communications in which the station licensee or control operator has a pecuniary interest, including communications on behalf of an employer. You may, however, notify other amateur operators of the availability for sale or trade of apparatus normally used in an amateur station, provided that such activity is not conducted on a regular basis;
Music using a phone emission except as specifically provided elsewhere in Section 97.113; communications intended to facilitate a criminal act; messages in codes or ciphers intended to obscure the meaning thereof, except as provided for space telecommand (see Section 97.211(b)), telecommand of model craft (seeSection 97.215(b)), and RTTY and data emission codes (see Section 97.309(b)); obscene or indecent words or language; or false or deceptive messages, signals or identification;
Communications, on a regular basis, which could reasonably be furnished alternatively through other radio services.

So - someone sending
"I set, whisky, lima. I cack - alpha, charlie, delta, niner, foxtrot Able, gulf,..." not allowed.

If you are on a net that plays chess via radio - you can send QN 2 KR3. Using a 'known or commercial' cypher or code IS allowed - the meaning is open to look up - esp by our friendly FCC monitors.

Does this help?

[Kutter_0311]

So, any cipher that's open to referance is G2G? Yet some complain about 10-codes?

[williaty]

So, any cipher that's open to referance is G2G? Yet some complain about 10-codes?

10-to-1 (ha!) that has to do with the fact that 10 codes are used mostly by CBers and there's some significant bad blood between the CB and Ham community.

[crypto]

prepared group is going to contain at least one ham.

That ham, judging from the ones I run into at swap meets and on nets, has a good chance of being one of the old overweight guys with gout, or arthritis, or type 2 diabetes, that really like to sit around and bitch about things, and can't stand to ever be wrong about anything.

[crypto]

So, any cipher that's open to referance is G2G? Yet some complain about 10-codes?

10-to-1 (ha!) that has to do with the fact that 10 codes are used mostly by CBers and there's some significant bad blood between the CB and Ham community.

CBers, and everyone even remotely related to law enforcement or emergency services in this country.

[williaty]

prepared group is going to contain at least one ham.

That ham, judging from the ones I run into at swap meets and on nets, has a good chance of being one of the old overweight guys with gout, or arthritis, or type 2 diabetes, that really like to sit around and bitch about things, and can't stand to ever be wrong about anything.

It's also a lot of the guys who do high powered rocketry, and those guys are often pretty spry. RDF is used to retrieve errant rockets that come down out of sight. My most hilarious chase so far is going after one of my dad's mid-winter across a plowed-under bean field. 45mph in an 89 4Runner, wife sitting on the passenger's side window sill, torso outside the car, sweeping the horizon with a high-gain Yagi, Dad bouncing along beside us crouched on the back of a 4-wheeler piloted by an insane 13-year-old. Finally caught sight of the damned thing by the rooster tail of bean stalks it was kicking up as it raced across the field at 20mph. For some reason, the main chute (surplus chute that's used to jerk an Abrams tank out the back of a plane) hadn't collapsed when the rocket hit the ground and was bouncing along the ground at wind-speed. The 4-wheeler took off while we hung back. Dad had the kid get in front of the chute and then leapt off the 4-wheeler hitting the chute about half way between the ground the center and collapsing it. He and the chute tumbled for a while before achieving zero velocity via an ablative technique.

So, don't make the mistake of thinking that all hams that use RDF are old fogies. Hell, even a lot of the fox-hunt guys are pretty spry since the better hunts get held in some pretty rugged terrain.

[Kutter_0311]

prepared group is going to contain at least one ham.

That ham, judging from the ones I run into at swap meets and on nets, has a good chance of being one of the old overweight guys with gout, or arthritis, or type 2 diabetes, that really like to sit around and bitch about things, and can't stand to ever be wrong about anything.

So... That puts them about on par with half the people on interweb forums, dunnit?
(says the fat disabled guy...)

[materielgeneral]

This is a response to several people that wrote about "you cant do that". If the shit hits the fan, I dont care what the FCC says. Yes during normal peace time operations, you have to follow the rules and regulations but If its the end of the world type crap, are you really going to care what the FCC says?

When I wrote the article I was'nt talking about living on the radio. If you have to use it, then use it and I would recemmend using all the code words you can think of. It's about survival! Would you send a scouting party out, with out a way to communicate with the retreat?

And if some civilian happens to figure out where the retreat is located and wont follow orders to leave. He will face deadly use of force because he or she compromised operational security. It's about survival in a country gone wild. I'm not advocating preying on the weak or murder but you have to take care of your own first. (If this last paragraph does not satisfy the general rules then I will edit it)