Maps over compass?

[NeverReady]

How many of you have actually found use for a compass in an urban environment? Please explain your experience/situation you were in with details.

[Doctorr Fabulous]

Marjah, Helmand Province, Afghanistan. Moving from building to building is fine and dandy if you recognize all the buildings. If you do not, or you are in an unfamiliar city, and you cannot find street signs, you can use that compass in addition to your map to find the best routes.

Now, the caveats are that if your compass is magnetic, magnetic metals and electromagnets (such as high-tension power lines) will throw off your azimuth. It's easy to tell in boot camp who pays attention to the compass class, because if the pointman doesn't hand off his rifle to take a reading, the team will go in circles.

ETA: not an American style city, but the point is valid nonetheless. A GPS is good, especially if it has a the ability to shoot an azimuth by GPS and by magnet.

[BullOnParade]

Toronto, underground pedestrian walkways cover the core of the downtown (known as the P.A.T.H.. It's easy to get turned around, I have a copy of the map and a cheap compass in my bob just for the use of these tunnels. Also, as you come up from underground, it can save a few minutes of finding your way (looking for signs, determining location, determining North).

[ODA 226]

In the mid-90,s my ODA Commander and I kept getting lost in Prague and couldn't figure out why until we whipped out a button compass...and found that our map was oriented South and not North!

[skelco]

Kaohsiung, Taiwan. No Chinese language skills and no english on the signs. Big spread out city hat isn't always on a grid. My hotel gave me a map but I was glad I had a compass on my zipper pull.

[Davo]

I dread going on trips in the wife's car, because it doesn't have a compass (I need to add one). I have one in the F-150, and I rely on it all the time driving around, especially on overcast days and at night...in urban Atlanta and surrounding suburbs. The roads here all follow cow paths or were laid out while someone was on a bender. Some turn 180 degrees in a two mile span, some require turns at four-way intersections to remain on the same road, and just about all of them change names every few intersections, just for fun.

[NeverReady]

Damn guys, I think you convinced me.

[Cockroach]

City Maps are preferred, have ver good information on 'em. I always carry several.
But I have used compass a few times in NYC
I travel extensively on NYC subway. Sometimes when I leave a subway stop and exit to an unfamilair location I check compass to confirm Im walking in the desired direction. ie North for Uptown, West for Westside highway, etc.

Also have used compass to navigate inside several of our construction sites and building shell is already built..

Suggest keep maps and compass both..reliable button compass weighs what, 30 grams?

[jor-el]

Hardly ever use a compass in NYC.

In Manhattan, the city's mostly a grid, and as long as I can spot the major skyscrapers, I'm good.

Queens is the worst for that because it started as multiple small communities that melded together like a transporter malfunction. All of the major roads run in zig-zag lines.

[velojym]

When I was a pimply-faced-youth delivering pizza, I kept a pocket compass in addition to the mounted one on my dash. In some of the curvier neighborhoods, it was certainly a help. This was long before personal GPS units were available.
But, ya gotta know how to use it first.

[MVegas]

Boston. Spend 5 minutes there and you'll see the usefulness. I grew up in the city and I can't tell you how many desperately lost tourists I tried the best i could to direct back to their hotels.

[andygates]

Any metropolis when I visit, and don't have a horizon to orient for a while -- all in Europe, mostly UK, where diffuse light is also common and I keep funny hours, do the sun isn't all that.

I get mazed and turned-round and end up hopelessly lost, every damn time. I used to carry a compass, then a GPS; now it's a GPS-enabled smartphone with a compass app as well.

[Cockroach]

Hardly ever use a compass in NYC.

In Manhattan, the city's mostly a grid, and as long as I can spot the major skyscrapers, I'm good.

Queens is the worst for that because it started as multiple small communities that melded together like a transporter malfunction. All of the major roads run in zig-zag lines.

Gotcha, although there are certain areas in NYC and 5 boroughs where orienting by skyscraper doesn't work, especially at dusk. The other day my work schedule took me from Cambria Heights queens to mid manhatttan to financial district.

GPS maneuvering...For Cambria I didn't feel like driving so took the F train and then the Q77. As someone else mentioned, the GPS smartphones are great, I used mine to track location and alert me when my stop was coming up. But I refuse to solely rely on GPS to get around..

Actually one of my favorite maps is the NYC subway map in PDF form on my NookColor..comes in handy plenty of times.

[Yrkoon9]

I like to have both because quite honestly - both can be wrong.

About 25% of our land nav failures were no-go's because their compass was inop or off by such a large margin it caused them to fail. Additionally, some land nav courses have roads that aren't on the maps, or are so old they are not updated to show the improvements or features that are there currently. So I have gotten to the point now that I am completely OCD about ensuring my compass works, ensuring I have the most updated maps (this includes on my GPS), etc.

In an urban environment I see where the compass can keep you from going the entirely wrong direction but I much prefer maps. I'll bust out the compass once in a while but that map stays in my hand.

Recently an old SF cat helped me to refine my own land nav skills in the field. I have always been extremely confident in my abilities with a compass, protractor, and a map. My pace count is exact. I am OCD. However - as an exersize he told me to go out and try to find the land nav points without a compass or protractor! I was like...hmmmm. First thing is to plot those points. Break those grids down to get as close to exact as possible (without the protractor), and then use terrain association ONLY. I was very skeptical because I only used terrain association for things like backstops, handrailing, attack points, etc. NEVER used it as a primary tool. Lo and behold I was finding points! It took me about 2x as long as it would have without but I was finding them. And that boosted my confidence quite a bit. Now I tie in that terrain association with the ole compass and map techniques that I feel confident in and I have reduced my time in finding points greatly. However - night nav is something else - I stick with compass and pace count only (and attack points!). Depending on our students level of experience I try to get them thinking about terrain association early, but to stick with the fundamentals of backstops, handrails, etc. because nothing worse than trying to get someone without a solid grasp of the mechanics "thinking" they know where something is.

Urban environments...probably still gonna say gotta have both - but will use map more than compass.

[Norseviking]

As a FISTER I'm good with landnav and I make it my business to have maps of my area using MGRS with 1:50,000 scale. I have my protractor and one of the good lensatic compass with tritium. These object's are only tools not skills and yes they can go bad but get yourself good tools to work with. Maps can be lost, compasses can go bad and of course for the people who rely only on GPS your batteries will go dead. Do yourself a favor and learn the major and minor terrain features, direction of the sun as it travels, what side of a tree moss will grow on if overcast and most importantly terrain association. These skills will last you a life time and as long as you keep up on them they will surve you well for the rest of your days.

[KnightoftheRoc]

In my home town, I find it almost- ALMOST- impossible to get lost, but I've been driving and walking it for YEARS. Out of town, I always take a map with me. I have a pretty good sense of direction when it comes to finding North, and translating what I see on the ground to what's on the map. I also make sure I buy GOOD maps. I've had several compasses in my vehicles over the years, and none of the "mounts to dash or windshield" types have ever been very accurate. My Jeep has one built in, and it's pretty good, but it only changes every 45 degrees- good enough to check against a street map, but I wouldn't go with it for overland travel.

I own a USGI lensatic compass, and an overlay I scaled from a military one to match the scale of the USGS topo maps, and I've practiced my map reading for years out in the woods, when hiking or hunting, just to keep them up. I also have a pin-on button compass I wear on my pack strap for quick checks on the move that has proven reliable- not dead accurate, but to make sure I'm still moving in my intended direction, it's all I need till my next bearing check.

I would also suggest studying your local terrain. where I live, the rises in land tend to run basically, N/S, a feature left over from Ice Age glaciers. All but one river, and one creek in my county run either easterly, or southerly, so even water current can be a guide. Water always runs downhill, and like a railroad track, will eventually guide you to some form of civilization.

A surprisingly less known than you would think fact my father (45 yrs as an OTR driver) told me- the US Interstate system is also a guide- all the interstates will run N/S if ending in an odd number, E/W if it's even. They are all 2 digit numbers. A 3 digit Interstate number means it's a spur off of the main, indicated by the last 2 digits. If the first digit is odd, it runs INTO town, if even, it goes AROUND the town. Example- I87 runs past my town, running N/S. I587 runs from the local exit off I87 into town (odd first digit). To the south, near NYC, I287 runs around NYC in a HUGE arc (even first digit). US highways use the same system, but without the spur indications, as do most state highways, depending on state. It's not till you hit the county road level that these rules go out the window. This info has saved me countless times in the past, and has only failed me when I missed which exit was for which direction- MY fail, not the info's. I at least was on the right road, just the wrong direction!

[Willmark]

My thoughts are to carry both.

Reasoning for me is that in any SHTF situation the immediate area I'll know fairly well so having both covers both bases.

[mwestjeeper]

I've used a digital watch compass many times in Vegas casinos ; they are vast and the exits are well hidden for obvious reasons

[Unless]

both maps and compasses are literally essential.

I can't imagine you giving directions to anyone without a basic cardinal direction involved.
Travel north along 35... etc... even city streets label nsew... aves vs streets... etc... they all indicate direction of travel not just a street. odd numbers ns... evens ew...

in temporary security functions perimeters are designated with cardinal points. The North road... . interiors of buildings... ewns facing windows..

Guiding in people without knowledge of the area...

In bug out emergencies... emergency azimuths for pickup.

Try navigating a city in the dark with no lights.. find a black skyscraper against a black overcast sky.

for warmth... setting up positions with south facing entrances windows.. this is very handy when you live in colder places

what isnt as useful is a gps.. unless you carry a satchel full of batteries... or have plenty of daylight down time for recharging with a solar panel..

but even a gps has a place in areas with little or no reference points... deserts, on the water... in nebraska.

the key to a compass is it gives you a COMMON direction... if you turn left and I turn left... our directions may be different depending on our original orientation. If we both go west.. there is no ambiguity

a compass is such a tiny item ... its priceless... maps... buy a rand mcnally for the whole country

[KnightoftheRoc]

...a compass is such a tiny item ... its priceless... maps... buy a rand mcnally for the whole country

When you consier the space and weight involved in either item, what argument can anyone possibly give for NOT carrying them if you have the choice? There's a good reason both are listed on the "ten essentials" lists, regardless of who is listing them.

[charlie505]

Hardly ever use a compass in NYC.

In Manhattan, the city's mostly a grid, and as long as I can spot the major skyscrapers, I'm good.

Queens is the worst for that because it started as multiple small communities that melded together like a transporter malfunction. All of the major roads run in zig-zag lines.

Queens makes me nuts!!

Only places I get lost are Staten Island and New Jersey!
I wish they would build a bridge from Mahattan to PA!! Help me not get lost and avoid Jersey Troopers and the free speeding tickets they keep giving me!

I got lost in the woods once - forgot my map and compass at home!
Now those are two of the first items I make sure I have!

[theotherryan]

I am stationed in Germany and am fortunate to travel a pretty good amount around Europe. We recently started bringing a compass and it is a huge help in big cities you don't know! Especially in places where not all the streets are clearly marked a map and a compass are a huge help. If you get all turned around, as can happen when sight seeing or looking for a cool landmark a compass is a huge help. It lets you orient yourself and your map. It would have helped me several times in the past, like ODA 226 we got wicked turned around in Prague.

Sure you don't need a compass or a map in areas you know but that is a given. However for somebody who lives or travels in a huge city can you really say you know every twist and turn of LA or Dallas Fort Worth?