All purpose NFA questions thread

[kbilly84]

FWIW - I wrote up my own trust using quicken and examples that I dug up from some shooting club forums on the web. I'm naming my shooting buddy as the beneficiary, and he's naming me his beneficiary on his. No family involved. I'd rather have my suppressors going to someone who uses them and wants to keep them than dumping them off on my family members who have no use for them.

Cool. How about filing of the paperwork?

[UndeadInfidel]

FWIW - I wrote up my own trust using quicken and examples that I dug up from some shooting club forums on the web. I'm naming my shooting buddy as the beneficiary, and he's naming me his beneficiary on his. No family involved. I'd rather have my suppressors going to someone who uses them and wants to keep them than dumping them off on my family members who have no use for them.

Cool. How about filing of the paperwork?

All you need to do is take it to any notary and have them notarize the document. I took it to the person we knew at the UPS store and had them notarize it for free. You need an extra person to sign it as a witness (the witness can't be the beneficiary or any party on the form), so we had the other guy working at the store witness it. You just keep it safe in your own personal records and make backup copies - no need to file it anywhere.

I went down to the local shooting store where I plan to transfer all my class 3 purchases through, and they made a file for me and have a photocopy of my trust on file. All I do is go in, fill out the form 4, give them a money order for the $200 tax stamp, pay their fee for processing, and they do the rest.

When you need to add an item to it (new suppressor, or whatever else), you just update the Schedule A and Assignment of Property with the serialized item information, and sign/date the documents. No notarization required.

It all sounds really complicated but once you understand how it works, it's quite simple.

[UndeadInfidel]

Also, you want to name your trust something that's to the point and only use it for your NFA items. Mine is "<Surname> Firearms Trust". I've read lawyer statements that you should avoid initials or abbreviations in the name. Make it something that you don't mind reading because apparently for an SBR you will need to engrave the trust name on the receiver.

I've also read that when paying for your tax stamp, you either want to pay with a check from a TRUST fund bank acount, or you want to pay with a money order. Apparently paying for it with a personal check can cause legal issues down the road. For this reason I'm using postal money orders for payments.

[kbilly84]

All you need to do is take it to any notary and have them notarize the document. I took it to the person we knew at the UPS store and had them notarize it for free. You need an extra person to sign it as a witness (the witness can't be the beneficiary or any party on the form), so we had the other guy working at the store witness it. You just keep it safe in your own personal records and make backup copies - no need to file it anywhere.

I went down to the local shooting store where I plan to transfer all my class 3 purchases through, and they made a file for me and have a photocopy of my trust on file. All I do is go in, give them the tax money, fill out the form 4, give them a money order for the $200 tax stamp, pay their fee for processing, and they do the rest.

When you need to add an item to it (new suppressor, or whatever else), you just update the Schedule A and Assignment of Property with the serialized item information, and sign/date the documents. No notarization required.

It all sounds really complicated but once you understand how it works, it's quite simple.

Holy hell, that actually does sound simple. And a whole lot more "anonymous" than going the individual route with prints, pics, and CLEO signature. I think I'll have to do this forthwith.
Are background checks done at any point in that process, or was that when your class 3 "made a file" for you?

[UndeadInfidel]

All you need to do is take it to any notary and have them notarize the document. I took it to the person we knew at the UPS store and had them notarize it for free. You need an extra person to sign it as a witness (the witness can't be the beneficiary or any party on the form), so we had the other guy working at the store witness it. You just keep it safe in your own personal records and make backup copies - no need to file it anywhere.

I went down to the local shooting store where I plan to transfer all my class 3 purchases through, and they made a file for me and have a photocopy of my trust on file. All I do is go in, give them the tax money, fill out the form 4, give them a money order for the $200 tax stamp, pay their fee for processing, and they do the rest.

When you need to add an item to it (new suppressor, or whatever else), you just update the Schedule A and Assignment of Property with the serialized item information, and sign/date the documents. No notarization required.

It all sounds really complicated but once you understand how it works, it's quite simple.

Holy hell, that actually does sound simple. And a whole lot more "anonymous" than going the individual route with prints, pics, and CLEO signature. I think I'll have to do this forthwith.
Are background checks done at any point in that process, or was that when your class 3 "made a file" for you?

I believe the BATFE does all that when your class 3 dealer sends in your Form 4 and trust paperwork. It's pretty much the same process as buying any other firearm, except you include the $200 tax stamp and fill out the form in the name of the trust, and have that long WAIT for everything to clear. I'm assuming they may check those individuals that are named as the grantor and beneficiary in the trust.

[kbilly84]

I believe the BATFE does all that when your class 3 dealer sends in your Form 4 and trust paperwork. It's pretty much the same process as buying any other firearm, except you include the $200 tax stamp and fill out the form in the name of the trust, and have that long WAIT for everything to clear. I'm assuming they may check those individuals that are named as the grantor and beneficiary in the trust.

Right on. When you made your trust (Quicken, right?) did you have to do anything to specify that it was for NFA firearms? Or was it just a generic trust?

[UndeadInfidel]

I believe the BATFE does all that when your class 3 dealer sends in your Form 4 and trust paperwork. It's pretty much the same process as buying any other firearm, except you include the $200 tax stamp and fill out the form in the name of the trust, and have that long WAIT for everything to clear. I'm assuming they may check those individuals that are named as the grantor and beneficiary in the trust.

Right on. When you made your trust (Quicken, right?) did you have to do anything to specify that it was for NFA firearms? Or was it just a generic trust?

Not really, as stated previously the only thing I know of that these "Guntrust lawyers" do is put in verbiage that outlines the legality of transferring the items in the case of someone inheriting your class 3 suppressors or firearms that doesn't know the legality of it. It also helps with probate cases, etc. This is why rather than trusting them to the mother/wife/etc and having them get into trouble trying to sell them on ebay, I'll be leaving them to a friend that knows the law.

Note - I won't be using my own trust for anything other than suppressors or maybe the slight possibility of an SBR/SBS (I don't even see the need to SBR an AR when you can just pin a 14.5" AR barrel... but anyway). If you plan to purchase automatic weapons and machineguns, I'd go ahead and pay a lawyer to write all this in.

[kbilly84]

Right on. When you made your trust (Quicken, right?) did you have to do anything to specify that it was for NFA firearms? Or was it just a generic trust?

Not really, as stated previously the only thing I know of that these "Guntrust lawyers" do is put in verbiage that outlines the legality of transferring the items in the case of someone inheriting your class 3 suppressors or firearms that doesn't know the legality of it. It also helps with probate cases, etc. This is why rather than trusting them to the mother/wife/etc and having them get into trouble trying to sell them on ebay, I'll be leaving them to a friend that knows the law.

Note - I won't be using my own trust for anything other than suppressors or maybe the slight possibility of an SBR/SBS (I don't even see the need to SBR an AR when you can just pin a 14.5" AR barrel... but anyway). If you plan to purchase automatic weapons and machineguns, I'd go ahead and pay a lawyer to write all this in.

Don't know that I'd ever have a need for an AOW, but I probably would if I could

[nimdabew]

Oh, thoughts on the Gemtech Halo? I want something QD that I can swap between various ARs with A2 flashhiders.

I would get an SWR renegade before a HALO. Cheaper and faster attaching than the HALO. I wouldn't be hesitant to buy a HALO either though so YMMV.

[omega_man]

Oh, thoughts on the Gemtech Halo? I want something QD that I can swap between various ARs with A2 flashhiders.

I would get an SWR renegade before a HALO. Cheaper and faster attaching than the HALO. I wouldn't be hesitant to buy a HALO either though so YMMV.

Thanks for that. My closest class 3 deals AAC and won't discuss anything else. Better yet, SWR is local. As far as all this NFA stuff goes, I'm taking baby steps.

[Dave_M]

My recommendation is to visit the dealers in your area and see what's in stock. I know guys who have waited more than a year for their cans to make it from the manufacturer to the dealer (all of this before any sending of paperwork to the BATFE!). Some manufacturers have better reps than others in this regard but nothing is faster than something the dealer has in stock.

[ausher]

i hate iowa and there anti nfa to civilians. hopefully one day they will change that....

[Jeriah]

OK, here is a dumb question: if I'm buying a machinegun, do I pay for it first, and then submit the paperwork, or do I submit the paperwork first, and then pay for it when (or if) it clears? And, in the former case, what do I do if the paperwork doesn't clear? Go asking for my money back?

(This is a pure hypothetical for the time being, I live in IL, but just wondering for the future. Also, obviously I don't take delivery til the papers clear, that wasn't part of the question.)

[Dave_M]

OK, here is a dumb question: if I'm buying a machinegun, do I pay for it first, and then submit the paperwork, or do I submit the paperwork first, and then pay for it when (or if) it clears? And, in the former case, what do I do if the paperwork doesn't clear? Go asking for my money back?

Depends on the dealer. Most of the time, you pay for the gun and then send paperwork in. If it doesn't clear, well, that's up to the dealer.

Find a good Class 02/03 is my recommendation. Ask them these questions first.

[PistolPete]

My recommendation is to visit the dealers in your area and see what's in stock. I know guys who have waited more than a year for their cans to make it from the manufacturer to the dealer (all of this before any sending of paperwork to the BATFE!). Some manufacturers have better reps than others in this regard but nothing is faster than something the dealer has in stock.

This is good advice. I ordered a Silencerco Sparrow through my dealer in January, he still hasn't received it. He doesn't normally stock Silencerco products. My first was an AAC that he does deal with regularly and it was there in like 6 or 8 weeks. I know not to use him in the future for Silencerco products.

[Regular Guy]

All right, this is a question for the masters of silence.

I want a subsonic gun that cycles in an AR-15 platform. I focus on 5.56 and 6.5. I'd rather not get into another caliber. I'd like to find a subsonic 5.56 rd that cycles the action, I do not believe such a thing exists*. Here's my question, will a gas piston on an AR-15 allow it to cycle the action reliably with sub sonic ammo? Both the bolt on gas system and a 300 BO barrel cost about the same but the savings would be in not buying another die set and brass.

*No, I will not by extreme ammo. Sorry, I will not.

[nimdabew]

The problem with sub-sonic 5.56 is that because of it's very low speed, the bullet tends to not be stabalized whne it leaves the barrel. Read: you will get baffle strikes. If I were to get a sub sonic AR, I would get .300 AAC and use that. Bigger bullet, subsonic, and you will be able to cut people in half like a light saber and still have decent accuracy. It is a sub 100 meter gun though I think.

[Regular Guy]

The problem with sub-sonic 5.56 is that because of it's very low speed, the bullet tends to not be stabalized whne it leaves the barrel. Read: you will get baffle strikes. If I were to get a sub sonic AR, I would get .300 AAC and use that. Bigger bullet, subsonic, and you will be able to cut people in half like a light saber and still have decent accuracy. It is a sub 100 meter gun though I think.

Yeah, that's what I'm reading on the other sights but we have some more level headed knowledgeable folks the traffic our forum.

Welp, 300 BO here I come. I already reload and stock 308 bullets so it's just brass and dies, then I'm rollingmy own.

[nimdabew]

Yeah, that's what I'm reading on the other sights but we have some more level headed knowledgeable folks the traffic our forum.

Me? Level headed? NO! That's unpossible!

[Regular Guy]

Yeah, that's what I'm reading on the other sites but we have some more level headed knowledgeable folks the traffic our forum.

Me? Level headed? NO! That's unpossible!

Go check out the survival forum. They're level headed.

I think the best firearms advice they have is: Buy WASR or Mini because they're cheap and the AR-15 is total crap. Then they called me a mall ninja. It was great.

[nimdabew]

I think the best firearms advice they have is: Buy WASR or Mini because they're cheap and the AR-15 is total crap. Then they called me a mall ninja. It was great.

Well at least you aren't part of the 99%.

Srsly, .300 AAC is a great sub gun and I would do it if I could get SBR's. It is almost pointless at greater than 10.5" or something like that IIRC.

[Regular Guy]

I think the best firearms advice they have is: Buy WASR or Mini because they're cheap and the AR-15 is total crap. Then they called me a mall ninja. It was great.

Well at least you aren't part of the 99%.

Srsly, .300 AAC is a great sub gun and I would do it if I could get SBR's. It is almost pointless at greater than 10.5" or something like that IIRC.

Yeah, I looked at the ballistics on the 8" 300 BO brl and liked them. I'm going to put it on one of the SBR lowers I have in.

[nimdabew]

I think the best firearms advice they have is: Buy WASR or Mini because they're cheap and the AR-15 is total crap. Then they called me a mall ninja. It was great.

Well at least you aren't part of the 99%.

Srsly, .300 AAC is a great sub gun and I would do it if I could get SBR's. It is almost pointless at greater than 10.5" or something like that IIRC.

Yeah, I looked at the ballistics on the 8" 300 BO brl and liked them. I'm going to put it on one of the SBR lowers I have in.

It would make an awesome HD gun IMO with a suppressor and about 20 rounds of hate with a white light and an EOTech or something on top.

[Regular Guy]

I think the best firearms advice they have is: Buy WASR or Mini because they're cheap and the AR-15 is total crap. Then they called me a mall ninja. It was great.

Well at least you aren't part of the 99%.

Srsly, .300 AAC is a great sub gun and I would do it if I could get SBR's. It is almost pointless at greater than 10.5" or something like that IIRC.

Yeah, I looked at the ballistics on the 8" 300 BO brl and liked them. I'm going to put it on one of the SBR lowers I have in.

It would make an awesome HD gun IMO with a suppressor and about 20 rounds of hate with a white light and an EOTech or something on top.

It's like you're reading my mind, man. Yeah, at tax time I'm going to get a YHM 7.62 can. I know, heavy, not as quiet, and pedestrain. Well, I'm good with pedestrain and not as loud because this will allow me to have a can that can go on all my guns. Yes, I'm still going to get the 5.56 version. 300 BO brl is short term within the next 3-6 months.