"I want your headphones!" "Uhhh... who are you?"

[TDW586]

I think it's the meanest kind of mental judo to convince a victim that the attack was their fault. But I see that all the time, someone gets targeted for a crime and wonders what they did wrong. I think criminals do a similar kind of blame displacement as well, and try to rationalize or convince themselves that the victim caused the assault, or had it coming. Kind of chaps my butt thinking of these guys casually intimidating a lone woman. Scumbags.

That's a very good point, squinty. It's a very common tactic, for example, provoking a fight with someone and then robbing them. It's a form of subconscious justification, both for the individual committing the crime and for the social group surrounding them.

Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk

[squinty]

Yeah, and convincing the victim that they are somehow in the wrong or to blame for the situation is a great way to keep the victim cowed and cooperative.

[duodecima]

A friend of mine was a juror in a rape trial, ...[SNIP] ... There were a couple of jurors who were adamantly convinced that the whole affair was consensual. They were women. Their big question: why didn't she run or ask for help at the motel check-in desk?

I think (=my theory based on personal experience, I have no data to back it up) that women will sometimes be hypercritical of another female victim's actions because that way we can pretend to ourselves that "This would never have happened to me." I actually caught myself thinking (to myself only) something along that line when someone close to me was raped by an acquaintance - not sure what triggered me to realize that, rather than honestly critiquing her actions (and she'd made one silly decision, but it was common college silliness, nothing reckless), I was looking for reasons I didn't have to feel scared myself.

In my experience, such as it is, the best of both world's is to look like a harder than average target (not afraid to say no) while letting the other guy have a graceful exit. No insults, no getting in his face as long as he's maintaining the fiction of politeness between you, but firmly and confidently say no to his demands, and protest anything he does that makes you uncomfortable. ...[SNIP]...
It's fair to ask yourself "how could I have avoided the situation, what clues were there that could have warned me" (sometimes there aren't any) or "what would have been a better way to resist or escape them," but never "what did I do to cause this attack." It's them, not you.

This seems like the gold nugget of guiding principle to me.

[HKTackDriver]

Why would someone ask a perfect stranger for headphones?

It is done all the time. It is called robbery.

Why did the second guy insist on paying me?

He gave you a token and $2 so you could not say it was a robbery. He could say it was a sale.

Do people really get into hierarchy spats like dogs do?--Non-serious fights in which they reinforce their position in a "pack"?

Absolutely. It happens all the time, everyday. It happens in offices, organizations and anything involving humans and any kind of organization.

That's correct, but usually these guys don't realize that giving $3 doesn't nullify that you're using intimidation to get what you want from someone.

PS. Why didn't you just tell him that they're not headphones, they're hearing aids and you have ear herpes? Drunks believe anything.

[junkyard slave]

He was probably just drunk and wanted to listen to music, and didn't intend on robbing you.
I give people dollars all the time. Its an unexpected but pleasant way to show appreciation for little things (such as lending your headphones), or to cheer somebody up. usually works but in your case I understand why it didn't.
You probably weren't in danger, except maybe accidental injury by being fallen on by a drunk guy.

[jamoni]

He was probably just drunk and wanted to listen to music, and didn't intend on robbing you.
I give people dollars all the time. Its an unexpected but pleasant way to show appreciation for little things (such as lending your headphones), or to cheer somebody up. usually works but in your case I understand why it didn't.
You probably weren't in danger, except maybe accidental injury by being fallen on by a drunk guy.

Sweet. Can I have your car? I'll give you a dollar!

[junkyard slave]

He was probably just drunk and wanted to listen to music, and didn't intend on robbing you.
I give people dollars all the time. Its an unexpected but pleasant way to show appreciation for little things (such as lending your headphones), or to cheer somebody up. usually works but in your case I understand why it didn't.
You probably weren't in danger, except maybe accidental injury by being fallen on by a drunk guy.

Sweet. Can I have your car? I'll give you a dollar!

Obviously cars are a bit less likely to be lent out than heapdhones. besides, my cars worth three dollars. I geuss where I'm from people are less bent on breakin it off in other people as they are other places. I have known a few guys though who let someone borrow their cars. and they were returned, intact.

[junkyard slave]

Oh wait, i totally missed the part about their pants sagging to their knees. my bad. i take it back, they WERE trying to break it off in you.

[jamoni]

He was probably just drunk and wanted to listen to music, and didn't intend on robbing you.
I give people dollars all the time. Its an unexpected but pleasant way to show appreciation for little things (such as lending your headphones), or to cheer somebody up. usually works but in your case I understand why it didn't.
You probably weren't in danger, except maybe accidental injury by being fallen on by a drunk guy.

Sweet. Can I have your car? I'll give you a dollar!

Obviously cars are a bit less likely to be lent out than heapdhones. besides, my cars worth three dollars. I geuss where I'm from people are less bent on breakin it off in other people as they are other places. I have known a few guys though who let someone borrow their cars. and they were returned, intact.

Darn, I don't have three dollars.
Still, there's a difference between "Hey, can I borrow your headphones for a bit, Larry, whom I've known for a while?" and "Hey stranger, give me your stuff." I stand by my assertion that these dudes were bad news, and should be treated as such. If I were inclined to show people the benefit of the doubt (which I'm not) they would have lost that simply by being drunk in public.
As for pants sagging to the knees, isn't that just another way to symbolize that they don't share the values of the mainstream society? Why shouldn't that be taken into account?

[junkyard slave]

I'll cut you a $2.50 deal on the car.
I did take that into account once i noticed it, I just hadn't noticed it for some reason when I first read the post. I wasn't being sarcastic, I meant it- sagging pants means bad news. Saggin pants means "im a clown, a joker who watches too much MTV "

[squinty]

He was probably just drunk and wanted to listen to music, and didn't intend on robbing you.
I give people dollars all the time. Its an unexpected but pleasant way to show appreciation for little things (such as lending your headphones), or to cheer somebody up. usually works but in your case I understand why it didn't.
You probably weren't in danger, except maybe accidental injury by being fallen on by a drunk guy.

Oh wait, i totally missed the part about their pants sagging to their knees. my bad. i take it back, they WERE trying to break it off in you.

The headphones, if I read the OP correctly, weren't willingly "lent out" nor were they returned to her. This was a robbery by intimidation. It was the actions of the men that made it a robbery, not their mode of dress - though you could argue that the stigma associated with young men in that style of dress helped a bit with the intimidation. I don't like that line of thought because it opens the victim up to spurious and baseless charges of prejudice, ie "you wouldn't be scared of a man in Dockers asking you for your headphones" etc.

Not everyone in droopy pants acts like a criminal or a robber, so it's unfair to criticize their clothing. Their actions, on the other hand, were clearly criminal and it's completely fair to judge them for their actions.

To describe the episode as a voluntary lending out of the OP's property is breathtakingly disingenuous or naive, IMO. I don't know how much actual danger the OP was in - probably not much, but who knows? - but she was clearly deprived of property by force or intimidation. That's a robbery.

[callista]

I'll cut you a $2.50 deal on the car.
I did take that into account once i noticed it, I just hadn't noticed it for some reason when I first read the post. I wasn't being sarcastic, I meant it- sagging pants means bad news. Saggin pants means "im a clown, a joker who watches too much MTV "

So at the very least, I suppose I should've called the fashion police.

(Seriously, how is that even comfortable? Personally, I like to wear pants that stay on.)

[fourway]

One way to refuse to comply without being confrontational is to purposely address the situation slightly wrong.
That is to say, you still say no but you use the wrong refusal... for example when asked to give something you react as if you are being offered something.
"can I have a dollar?" "No thank you".

It is still a firm refusal to comply but it takes the instigator off script and allows a chance to withdraw without losing face, its not his fault that you are crazy or stupid or foreign or all three.
It becomes a nonconfrontational deflection.

That said, you ought to still be able to back up your refusal to comply with pepper spray, machete, .410 derringer, tazer, pocket flame thrower, claw hammer, cordless circular saw, brass knobbed walking stick, or water pistol full of hydrochloric acid (and the training and willingness to use them without hesitation) just the same.

It's interesting, in your recounting of events in the original post I could tell that I was reading observations from an autistic spectrum perspective.
You ought to be able to use your natural tendency toward nonstandard affect and interpersonal reactions to your advantage in situations like this, in fact it may be the fact that your reactions didn't read as normal that inadvertently kept this situation from turning out worse than it did.

[TheLastOne]

Read the books TDW posted first page. TDW's first post is dead on, and I'm not sure what else needs to be said.
You got lucky. Find somewhere else to wait (not at a secluded bus stop) for over half an hour for the bus/train? Unfortunately the world requires us to sometimes adjust our behaviors to accommodate the idiots among us. I do it all the time, and I'm loaded for bear.

[fourway]

So at the very least, I suppose I should've called the fashion police.

(Seriously, how is that even comfortable? Personally, I like to wear pants that stay on.)

It's one of the most baffling styles ever... especially in light of the fact that guys who wear their pants hanging off imagine that it makes them look tough.
Pantsing someone is one of the great slapstick classics of dirty fighting, and these guys pants actually routinely fall down on their own even before scraps get beyond the shoving phase.
You'd think it would only have to happen once before they all decided to find a new way to look cool to each other (and ridiculous to everyone else).

[EmbraceTheHate]

First im glad your ok and nothing happened. Second, this is why i got my concealed handgun license for idiots like these. I would of not given up my headphones they are MINE i dont just give stuff away. When people are drunk they turn into idiots. I grew up around drunks and for that reason i hardly drink. Im glad you mentioned you have pepper spray that is a very good defense tool. Also forgot to mention i hate punk kids that sag there pants.....Be safe riding the bus!

[OffWhiteKnight]

So at the very least, I suppose I should've called the fashion police.

(Seriously, how is that even comfortable? Personally, I like to wear pants that stay on.)

It's one of the most baffling styles ever... especially in light of the fact that guys who wear their pants hanging off imagine that it makes them look tough.
Pantsing someone is one of the great slapstick classics of dirty fighting, and these guys pants actually routinely fall down on their own even before scraps get beyond the shoving phase.
You'd think it would only have to happen once before they all decided to find a new way to look cool to each other (and ridiculous to everyone else).

Don't know if it's true or not, but I heard the pants on the ground thing started in prison as a signal to other inmates that one was "available."

[Towanda]

Don't know if it's true or not, but I heard the pants on the ground thing started in prison as a signal to other inmates that one was "available."

Not true.

http://www.snopes.com/risque/homosex/sagging.asp