The Mentality of Participants Here

[aa1pr]

I have been getting sick of the online attitudes this forum has.

If you post a comment on a thread and the originator dislikes it, you get a message about it, or if they disagree with your opinion per se

Besides all the bashing on the posts

What ever happened to being civil? I guess it is easier to hide behind a computer screen & keyboard and be someone you are not

Maybe it should be that you have to be a member in order to post like other forums, to remove the riff raff factor ?

This would help clean up the forum, while also providing revenue to the site

[Ad'lan]

I have been getting sick of the online attitudes this forum has.

If you post a comment on a thread and the originator dislikes it, you get a message about it, or if they disagree with your opinion per se

Besides all the bashing on the posts

What ever happened to being civil? I guess it is easier to hide behind a computer screen & keyboard and be someone you are not

Maybe it should be that you have to be a member in order to post like other forums, to remove the riff raff factor ?

This would help clean up the forum, while also providing revenue to the site

Definitely Not. ZS shouldn't be some exclusive club, and like anywhere online, disagreements can get out of hand. But we have a good Mod team, and generally a very high standard of posting. Discussing divisive issues keeps this forum alive. If we were to restrict it to members only, pretty soon I think we'd stagnate, it'd be harder to get new members, and things would get circular.

[squinty]

I have been getting sick of the online attitudes this forum has.

If you post a comment on a thread and the originator dislikes it, you get a message about it, or if they disagree with your opinion per se

Besides all the bashing on the posts

What ever happened to being civil? I guess it is easier to hide behind a computer screen & keyboard and be someone you are not

Maybe it should be that you have to be a member in order to post like other forums, to remove the riff raff factor ?

This would help clean up the forum, while also providing revenue to the site

Definitely Not. ZS shouldn't be some exclusive club, and like anywhere online, disagreements can get out of hand. But we have a good Mod team, and generally a very high standard of posting. Discussing divisive issues keeps this forum alive. If we were to restrict it to members only, pretty soon I think we'd stagnate, it'd be harder to get new members, and things would get circular.

There is a tendency - which I've fed into, sorry - to dogpile some of the more clueless newcomers, instead of trying to bring them around. That's mostly reserved, I think, for the ones who demonstrate real irrationality or immaturity, or willful rule breakage.
I've been brought up short by the mods more than a few times, but I don't think I was ever dealt with unfairly.

What's wrong with taking disagreements to PM, though? And which of your posts, OP, do you think was singled out as inappropriate when it was really just a legit difference of opinion?

[NoAm]

I think a lot has to do with.......................
It's not what you say, but how you say it. (Type it)
I do love that we all have our own opinions and yes they can be bi-polar opposite, from someone else's at times. We need to be careful though, that people aren't feeling that they are being bashed or flamed. We are all adults here and should maybe re-read our posts (1st for spelling and a few .," for easier reading) If we are in a heated discussion, count to 5 before hitting enter.
I don't think we ever need to treat each other poorly or let someone think "Aren't they an a$$hole."

Unless it's a proven right/wrong situation, i.e. "No, you don't put gas on a fire to extinguish it" as opposed to "You are a #&^#R(* idiot, do you have any functioning grey matter left up there?" Most of the threads are experiences or scenarios and most of the responses are other experiences and opinions.

If you do feel like you must press or continue an issue, do it through PM's (Don't fight in front of the kids.)
Yes, anyone can be 'Billy Bad Ass' behind a computer screen, just remember that there is someone else (lots of someone elses, in this case) on the other side, reading what you just typed.
Let's play nice and remember, like in any community, treat people how you would like to be treated. Be nice, play fair and have fun.

<3 NoAm

[phil_in_cs]

Maybe it should be that you have to be a member in order to post like other forums, to remove the riff raff factor ?

This would help clean up the forum, while also providing revenue to the site

Many of the current offenders are paid members, so I am not sure how much it would help. Some people like to shit up perfectly good threads.

New folks will always ask "noob"ish questions - that's why they are noobs. Some people, speaking from the vast experience they've acquired in reading other people's posts over a time span best measured in weeks, will then jump all over the noob for asking a simple question. A simple honest question deserves a simple honest answer. Some people find dumping shit on the questioner more entertaining.

I agree we run off people as a result.

[KYZHunters]

aa1pr, maybe we need to have an unwritten rule that says "No feeding frenzy until the OP ignores the "Welcome, here's a link to the forum rules, please read them," message." There are enough folks who immediately disregard the friendly welcome and pat on the head to satisfy the most carnivorous.

[Kommander]

Perhaps we need a rule that just says no frenzy period.

[squinty]

Perhaps we need a rule that just says no frenzy period.

That's a terrible suggestion! Everyone, jump on Kommander, now!

[raptor]

I would note that we do have a no flaming rule. The other thing is that not everyone has to agree with what you say. That to me is an important aspect of ZS. That said I do agree the dogpiling is not useful and very disconcerting. I also agree that I am having to ask people to be nice to the new folks a lot more than I would like.

That said when you look at other sites I consider ZS a whole more pleasant to read.

I think we all need to remember:

1) It is ok to disagree or correct, but it should be done with respect and politely.
2) If you cannot agree on a point you can say "I think we have to agree to disagree on this point." If this is the response all argument should end. Both parties should then simply move along or take it to PMs if both parties care to continue the discuss.
3) You do not get points for being rude and obnoxious. In fact you lose respect when you resort to that.
4) Take any argument to PMs. Use your Friend/Foe function to ignore posts of people you do not like.


I use this rule in my office. You do not have to like everyone, but you do have to civil to everyone.

[Ad'lan]

GREEN

[slannesh]

Granted, I haven't been here very long and do a LOT more reading than posting, but all in all I haven't noticed that this forum is any worse than most other well run forums i've been on over the years.

Every forum I've been on has had issues with new people just wanting quick answers without doing any of the reading or research themselves, it's human nature to want to do the least amount of work to get the job done possible. If someone knowledgeable is right there why wouldn't you ask them instead of starting from scratch? It'd be a pretty quiet forum if no one new ever asked a question until they'd read everything in it's entirety wouldn't it? Isn't the whole point of the site to make people more aware and get them to do something about it?

The 'Internet tough guy' isn't a new phenomenon, it's been around for a long time and I suspect will be for a long time still. We all really have to realize that at the end of the day, what some guy said or didn't 'get' on an Internet forum really doesn't have a lot of bearing on our lives and just let it go. I used to get totally worked up about stuff like that too till I ran my own forum, if you think it's bad as a user? Try being the guy running the show heh.

Anyhow, just 2 cents from a noob, take it for what you will

[dogbane]

I have been getting sick of the online attitudes this forum has.

It's not the forum. It's certain humans who post in the forum. The forum has no feelings, thoughts, or attitudes. It does have a culture and a number of subcultures. Some of the subcultures are problematic. We try to deal with them by ealing with the individuals who comprise these subcultures. But in order to deal with these individuals, we need to know about them. This is why we allow and encourage flagging of inappropriate posts.

We also encourage private communication in order to keep the threads running smoothly. If you receive unwanted communications, you can block messages from specific senders.

Please let the moderators know if you have problems with specific forum users. ETA: BUT DON'T PM ME SPECIFICALLY ABOUT IT UNLESS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. I AM NOT YOUR PERSONAL FORUM PROBLEM SOLVER.

[LBB]

Ok here are my opinion on this.

As most people know, I posted in on thread that an MP5 is a sub machine gun and not a machine gun.
Over all, I got messages from one person that tried to offend me. He is a foe now.

Not bad for a starter here, I might have gotten some offensive answers after my posting there as well, I didn't check on it.

But I think over all it's not so bad.


Now let me tell you about a different group I am not a member of anymore.
It's a group that talks mainly about lightbars and such things.

When I said that I am German, a LEO started calling me a Nazi all day long and posted offensive pictures to piss me off. When I gave it back to him, I was punished my the mods.

So I really don't see things like this happen here, and calling someone ones a name or so, who really cares.
But offending someone daily and seeing that the mods don't do anything, this would stink.


So right now, I don't see things happen that are so bad.

And sure I can tell you where this LEO works.

[Phoenix David]

Perhaps we need a rule that just says no frenzy period.

That's a terrible suggestion! Everyone, jump on Kommander, now!

Umm hell no! He wears a kilt, way to dangerous

[silversnake]

Granted, I haven't been here very long and do a LOT more reading than posting, but all in all I haven't noticed that this forum is any worse than most other well run forums i've been on over the years.

Every forum I've been on has had issues with new people just wanting quick answers without doing any of the reading or research themselves, it's human nature to want to do the least amount of work to get the job done possible. If someone knowledgeable is right there why wouldn't you ask them instead of starting from scratch? It'd be a pretty quiet forum if no one new ever asked a question until they'd read everything in it's entirety wouldn't it? Isn't the whole point of the site to make people more aware and get them to do something about it?

The 'Internet tough guy' isn't a new phenomenon, it's been around for a long time and I suspect will be for a long time still. We all really have to realize that at the end of the day, what some guy said or didn't 'get' on an Internet forum really doesn't have a lot of bearing on our lives and just let it go. I used to get totally worked up about stuff like that too till I ran my own forum, if you think it's bad as a user? Try being the guy running the show heh.

Anyhow, just 2 cents from a noob, take it for what you will

This and then some!

By far, this is one of the better "behaved" online communities that I'm a member of and one of the two best that are not run by a company as part of a PR/sales strategy and thus highly moderated. I've been very impressed with the general level of self-policing and tolerance here despite seeing the occasional dogpile on the noob.

Sure, we could occasionally do with a bit of "hey guys, play nice" and "mind your manners" reminders, but the mods already do that and most people I've seen listen. That's a far cry from other sites where I've seen moderators stealth-link people to meatspin and tubgirl (no, don't google those, definitely NSFW or sanity) as an accepted part of the community standards and practices. No, I'm not making the argument that because others are bad we shouldn't strive for improvement, but I am pointing out how generally good it is here.

Happy to count myself a poster and hopefully/eventually a dues-paying member.

[crypto]

[Kommander]

Must not post politics....waggg....

[Brock Meatstone]

I don't really post a whole lot, and haven't even paid for my membership (yet), but I'm always just a little dismayed at the dogpiling of new users or even older ones. I read everything I could on this site for hours a day for months before I joined up, because it was interesting to me and it also helped me "get" the flow and attitude of the forum, and in doing that, I knew not to ask stupid questions, read the rules, don't entertain even the thought of doing anything illegal, and be civil (for the most part).

But what I see is a bit of a double standard in treatment, for example: Zombie Squad is a charity organization dedicated to educating the public about the importance of preparedness, especially those who are ignorant of the issue. But if you ask a question that shows that ignorance on the forum, you (more often than not) will get totally fucking dogpiled, especially if you are a new member, and to top it off, you'll get smoked for getting defensive about the shitty treatment, then the new guy storms off, and everybody pats each other on the back for not letting an ignorant noob/mall ninja get by without punishment for being so stupid.

Now obviously this isn't what happens all of the time, I've seen somebody ask a repetitive question and get a helpful link and advice on how to use the search engine with a smiley tacked on for their troubles, that's nice, I like that.
But dogpiling people is not the proper response to their rule-breaking, or ignorance; we all like to tout the higher standard that we say we hold ourselves to on this site, but more often than not, it looks like we act just like every other smug dick to people that don't know as much as we do.

Sorry for ranting.

[LBB]

But what I see is a bit of a double standard in treatment, for example: Zombie Squad is a charity organization dedicated to educating the public about the importance of preparedness, especially those who are ignorant of the issue. But if you ask a question that shows that ignorance on the forum, you (more often than not) will get totally fucking dogpiled, especially if you are a new member, and to top it off, you'll get smoked for getting defensive about the shitty treatment, then the new guy storms off, and everybody pats each other on the back for not letting an ignorant noob/mall ninja get by without punishment for being so stupid.

Like I said, I have seen people that are working to protect the law, that were offensive in other groups, and the mods were padding there backs.

So everything I saw here is kindergarten stuff.
Being a little offensive, whatever.

Being offensive against one member every day, I think this shouldn't be allowed.

[Regular Guy]

First off the mods do a great job on controlling dog piles. However, they are volunteers and they are not paying attention to every post. No one can. That's why there is the (!) button. If you think something is wrong or out of line, alert it. The membership can do a better job policing themselves, IMO, me included. So people need to get hazed and hazed hard ex; the guy who wanted to steal a plane and fly to MI. Others just need to be shown the rules. The membership needs to do a better job at informing newer members, myself included.

This is a forum we all participate in, however, we also need to call bullshit. We all can do a better job of some more tact with some people and recognize who needs to have pointed responses and who needs some guidance. If you personally feel that you are being unduly targeted, stop posting and turn off the internet. ZS is an established site, it'll be here tomorrow. When I feel myself getting pissed on ZS, I stop posting.

We are suppose to educate people on disaster preparedness while having fun doing it. Some members take the opportunity to bash folks when they should be redirecting them. That stated, I do it too and too often.

[dukman]

If you post a comment on a thread and the originator dislikes it, you get a message about it, or if they disagree with your opinion per se
<snip
What ever happened to being civil?

So do you think being "civil" means not vocalizing your disagreement with another poster? If someone feels the urge to comment on another's post, they should feel the freedom to do so. It doesn't matter if they support the posters point of view or are against it. That is what leads to this thing called conversation. Some people may say some things that you don't agree with. Some people may say some things you don't like. If they are doing so in an inappropriate way, you can flag the post to have the mods review it. Mods do look at these and do take action when it gets out of line. (Take a look at the "Random Stupid Bullshit" thread for example).

LBB brought up the thread about the SMG. You have to remember that many of the really active posters are from the USA, and sometimes laws and legal definitions are different from country to country. Are you wrong? Not technically. Are we wrong? Not technically. Maybe if you had posted "Here in Germany.... " there wouldn't have been as many people trying to correct you.

[LBB]

Maybe if you had posted "Here in Germany.... " there wouldn't have been as many people trying to correct you.

Actually the law applies from where the server is located.
So it doesn't matter who posts where or who ones the group, the server location decides on the law.

But this is only a side note.

[Kommander]

*Facepalm*

Really guys? You want to hack this shit out again in here? Talk about a microcosm of what's wrong...

[dogbane]

*Facepalm*

Really guys? You want to hack this shit out again in here? Talk about a microcosm of what's wrong...

Yeah! Learn to use the search function, N00b! There are dozens of threads about how this forum sucks!