Darxus' gear for an overnight in the White Mountains (NH)

[Darxus]

From the upper left corner of the photo:

• Trash bag
• NATO Modular Sleep System (complete), NSN 8465-01-395-1154
• Grocery bag for trash.
• 3 bandaids.
• 3 wet wipes
• Condoms
• Fishing kit
• Toilet paper (Coghlan's Tissue on the Go)
• Preperation H.
• Toothbrush
• MSR Hydromedary 3 Liter hydration bladder
• MSR HyperFlow water filter
• Brunton 7DNL Base Plate Map Compass (no dedicated declination setting)
• Cotton balls + vaseline
• Boiled eggs, 11
• Trail mix
• Cashews
• Peanut butter M&Ms (didn't have regular at the store)
• Doubled grocery bags to hang food if I want
• JanSport day pack (inadequate)
• KaBar model 1211 knife
• Salt
• Pain killers
• Duct tape
• Map
• BCB wire saw, NSN 5110-99-565-2549
• Bug repellant
• BIC disposable lighter
• Super glue (for closing wounds)
• Toenail clippers (surprised more people don't consider the condition of their toenails important enough)
• Ear plugs (sleep is important)
• Polypropylene jacket
• ExOfficio boxer briefs, two pair, awesome
• Wigwam Coolmax hiking socks, two pair
• Levi's jeans, crap
• Cotton long sleeve and shoort sleeve shirts, crap
• 550 cord
• Polypropeline balaclava (fake mil-surp, no NSN, grr)
• Poncho, NSN 8405-01-100-0976
• Pen
• Paper
• Belt
• Leatherman Wave (classic, not with the bit driver)
• Keys (with another small ferrocerium rod) (hidden teeth so you can't reproduce them)
• Ferrocerium rod, 3/8" x 4" (aka Swedish fire steel), handles on these things piss me off
• Cash
• Driver's license
• Credit card
• Flashlight (missing from photo)
• Boots, Matterhorn model 1997 (missing from photo)

Packed:


My goal here is along the lines of a light weight, four season, INCH bag. Which involves some interesting compromises. Think The Book of Eli or The Road. Mobility. Most things can be scavanged or made. What's important enough to carry on foot, if you're never coming home?

I went backpacking once a long time ago. I've gone much wimpier camping many times. Three days ago I realized I had no excuse not to spend this weekend in the mountains.

The first photo is everything I'll be taking with me, including what I'll wear. Missing my flashlight and boots.

When thinking about what equipment was actually necessary to take, I came to the conclusion that none of it is. I think most people could do this trip naked, no gear, no special knowledge, and get out intact (but grumpy). Because you can survive three days without water, and three weeks without food. I'm not entirely sure how cold the peak will be, warm clothing might be an exception if you strictly went with my plan to go up it instead of staying in the valleys.


The MSS is tied to the top of the straps of the pack. I think it'll be tolerable for two days. The pack is obviously sub-optimal.

The MSS looks like it would exactly fit in the bottom of a Kifaru Late Season pack (I measured 73" circumference the long way, which happens to match the bottom of that pack). I'd prefer to have that weight at the top of my pack, but apparently nobody makes a pack for a person wanting to attempt light weight backpacking with an MSS, which is disappointing but not shocking. It hurts my brain that internal frame people think a sleeping bag should go at the bottom, possibly with no way to get at it but complete unpacking. I'm a little tempted to get lighter, more packable, nested sleeping bags.

I want a Therm-a-rest NeoAir All Season / XLite / XTherm. It's high speed fragile crap, pretty opposite my MSS, but I think it still fits what I want. All shelter (bivy / tent, sleeping bags/pads), in the end, is just a means of reducing the time to set up camp, to increase my mobility. I can make shelter. Until it breaks, the NeoAir series is freaking light and compact.

The pants and shirts are cotton (crap), and need to be replaced. I'm interested in suggestions, preferably without cargo pockets. Gore-Tex? I have appropriate long underwear which needs to be added to make it more four season appropriate, but wouldn't fit in this bag.

I'd like a decent refillable lighter, but for now the BIC disposables just work.

I lamented to my girlfriend the amount of money I might end up giving to Kifaru. She responded "But that's money you can't take with you into the apocalypse." I agreed enthusiastically, very proud that she managed to come up with that all on her own.

There are a couple things here that I will not use on this trip, but I can't bring myself to leave behind: Half my MSS, fishing kit, wire saw. I should add some snare wire. Just in case civilization collapses while I'm out.

I really need to start making pemmican, it seems like the ultimate food. Ground jerky + rendered fat, used by Native Americans and trappers.

I want another pair of boots. I'm thinking maybe Danner Fort Lewis, lightly insulated. Very similar to my Matterhorns, maybe a little better quality. I think I'd like less insulation and a size up for two layers of serious socks. I'm hoping thick cushy summer socks provide somewhat decent insulation in the winter, because I'd like something that's useful year round. I'm curious to try sock liners.

I should add shoe polish or something. I need to figure how to make stuff to care for leather boots. Montana Pitch Blend looks like a good hint - pine pitch, mink oil, beeswax. (Most stuff marketed as mink oil is mostly vaseline, and bad for this.)

Web page where I've been keeping my notes on this kind of gear: http://www.chaosreigns.com/shtf/

I'd love to meet up with some of you folks in a Designated Wilderness in the White Mountains some time. Anybody interested? New Hampshire / Eastern Massachusetts (Boston) people?

[Darxus]

Added:

• Large safety pins (two using grommets in my hydration bladder to hold it in place)
• Toothpaste (mini)
• Sunblock (mini tube)
• Crotch powder (in another pill bottle)

[Darxus]

Added:

• Kel-tec P32 (tiny gun, no excuse not to)
• ~6' of snare wire.

No criticism huh? I must be good

I ended up staying down in the valleys due to the amount of fog / low clouds I was seeing, because a coworker who has been in the mountains a lot said it wasn't worth it if you couldn't see anything.


The pack with the MSS on top of it went better than I think anybody could have guessed. So don't carry an MSS tied to the top of a day pack unless you have to, but if you have to it's a good way to go.

With what I had, the only change I would make with hind sight was not packing the cashews. The only clothing I didn't wear was my jacket and balaclava, and that's okay. I didn't wish I had any clothing I didn't have.

With what I plan to buy, the changes I want to make are the same as before I left: A real pack, a light sleeping pad, and synthetic clothes. I guess I want to add a hard shell top for winter. I think I'll skip packing the intermediate sleeping bag part of the MSS until I'm in better shape, when it's too warm for it to be necessary. And three liters is way too much water to carry up a path entirely along a stream.


Replacing toothpaste with DIY tooth powder sounds like a good idea.

[Jeffcee]

Thats a good girlfriend, dude.

[maldon007]

Any more pics? ...can't see the first two for some reason... add direct links please???

As for criticism... Not me brother, you took what you thought you would need, and needed what you took... Were the condoms for a reason I don't need to hear about... or for something survival related

Oh yeah, the eggs... did you keep them cool? I had always heard boiled eggs needed refrigeration, or they go bad fairly quick.

[Jamie]

I'm a little curious about some of this stuff in an INCH bag...

[*]Condoms - is this for family planning or some Bear Grylls thing...
[*]Preperation H. - is this for your ass or some Bear Grylls thing...
[*]Boiled eggs, 11 - is this for food or some Bear Grylls thing...there's an almost infinite list of better foodstuffs for camping or survival...
[*]Doubled grocery bags to hang food if I want - a stuff sack or laundry bag on some 550 (or lighter cord) works 4,387 times better
[*]Ear plugs (sleep is important) - yes, it is, but so is not being snuck up on by zombies
[*]Levi's jeans, crap - as you say...crap, your layers should be nylon or fleece or some such
[*]Cotton long sleeve and shoort sleeve shirts, crap - as you say...crap...see above...

[*]Sleeping Pad - I would consider a closed-cell foam pad, as they tend to be tougher than inflating pads...

[*]Backpack - although there are plenty of advocates of Kifaru on this forum, unless you have piles of money instead of furniture in your house, I would consider some of the many alternative backpacks that are cheaper and lighter and awesome...Rolex watches are great, but nobody needs one...

It's better to have a solid bunch of good gear than a couple of showpiece items and the rest in crap...JMHO, YMMV...

A bunch of us go camping almost every month, year round here in northern NY, and would love to have you come and join us...we're all learning as we go, and love nothing more than hanging out in camp sharing and showing off our gear...

Jamie

[Darxus]

Oh, I forgot to mention, the pack was 29 pounds with three liters of water.

Thats a good girlfriend, dude.

Indeed. And she's been really bummed she couldn't go. So it looks like we'll be going together next month.

Any more pics? ...can't see the first two for some reason... add direct links please???

Ack, can you tell me any more about your problems seeing them? Right click, open image in new tab or something? You're not getting the "image stolen from chaosreigns.com" thing are you?

http://www.chaosreigns.com/gallery/IMG_9816.jpg.html
http://www.chaosreigns.com/gallery/IMG_9817.jpg.html

As for criticism... Not me brother, you took what you thought you would need, and needed what you took... Were the condoms for a reason I don't need to hear about... or for something survival related

Thanks. While I've heard of people using condoms for emergency water storage (you can fit your head in one), I did not bring them for a survival related purpose. And I'm sorry you're that sensitive

Oh yeah, the eggs... did you keep them cool? I had always heard boiled eggs needed refrigeration, or they go bad fairly quick.

You've been lied to. No eggs need refrigeration. It takes raw eggs at least several weeks to go bad (I've tried it). I assume longer for boiled. But do make sure they're absolutely hard boiled. Mostly hard, slightly soft boiled eggs get unpleasantly slimy after a few days without refridgeration

[Jamie]

Oh yeah, the eggs... did you keep them cool? I had always heard boiled eggs needed refrigeration, or they go bad fairly quick.

You've been lied to. No eggs need refrigeration. It takes raw eggs at least several weeks to go bad (I've tried it). I assume longer for boiled. But do make sure they're absolutely hard boiled. Mostly hard, slightly soft boiled eggs get unpleasantly slimy after a few days without refridgeration

While raw eggs can last for weeks, once you cook them, that drops down to under a week, with refrigeration (unless you pickle them)...so says the AEB...



Jamie

[Darxus]

I'm a little curious about some of this stuff in an INCH bag...

[*]Condoms - is this for family planning or some Bear Grylls thing...
[*]Preperation H. - is this for your ass or some Bear Grylls thing...
[*]Boiled eggs, 11 - is this for food or some Bear Grylls thing...there's an almost infinite list of better foodstuffs for camping or survival...

All for the usual purposes. I almost left the preperation h. out, but honestly, it's currently kind of important for my survival. Fiber in your diet is important.

Yeah, there's lots of better food options. But this one was easy and familiar, and worked. And I freaking love boiled eggs. As I mentioned, I really want to try making pemmican.

[*]Doubled grocery bags to hang food if I want - a stuff sack or laundry bag on some 550 (or lighter cord) works 4,387 times better

You sure? Modern grocery bags are impressively light and durable. Also, I had them, and they're free. How would a stuff sack be better? (I was planning to hang them with the 550 cord.)

[*]Ear plugs (sleep is important) - yes, it is, but so is not being snuck up on by zombies

There was some chance of sleeping in a crowded designated camping area. Noise from other people pisses me off too much for me to sleep. Fortunately I slept way out of earshot of anything on two legs, without earplugs.

[*]Levi's jeans, crap - as you say...crap, your layers should be nylon or fleece or some such
[*]Cotton long sleeve and shoort sleeve shirts, crap - as you say...crap...see above...

Yep.

[*]Sleeping Pad - I would consider a closed-cell foam pad, as they tend to be tougher than inflating pads...

I've certainly been considering them. But they're freaking huge, and, for example, the Therm-a-rest Ridge Rest has an R value (insulation) of 2.8 compared to the XTherm at 5.7. For winter camping, there don't seem to be any foam pads warm enough. A foam pad plus an inflatable pad was a popular option before the NeoAir All Season and XTherm came out, which reduces the extent of failure, but still, a lot of bulk. I wondered about using a pair of thinner inflatable mattresses, or even asking Therm-a-rest to make a version of their XTherm with two vertically independent bladders to similarly reduce the extent of failure from a single leak, but neither seems worthwhile.

[*]Backpack - although there are plenty of advocates of Kifaru on this forum, unless you have piles of money instead of furniture in your house, I would consider some of the many alternative backpacks that are cheaper and lighter and awesome...Rolex watches are great, but nobody needs one...

I'm definitely interested in other suggestions. I'm not set on Kifaru, and less expensive would be nice.

It's better to have a solid bunch of good gear than a couple of showpiece items and the rest in crap...JMHO, YMMV...

A bunch of us go camping almost every month, year round here in northern NY, and would love to have you come and join us...we're all learning as we go, and love nothing more than hanging out in camp sharing and showing off our gear...

That sounds great. Where do I find more info?

While raw eggs can last for weeks, once you cook them, that drops down to under a week, with refrigeration (unless you pickle them)...so says the AEB...

Wow, I had no idea. Thanks.

I recently went camping for five days with unrefridgerated boiled eggs. No problems. But thinking about it now, I may have been pushing it.

[ODA 226]

While raw eggs can last for weeks, once you cook them, that drops down to under a week, with refrigeration (unless you pickle them)...so says the AEB...Jamie

Any idea how long refrigerated, pickeled eggs can last? I made some pickeled eggs over 7 months ago and stuck them in the back of my refrigerator along with my pickeled sea scallops. A couple days ago, I FOUND both and went for it. Both tasted just fine, although the scallops were a little chewy. I suffered no ill effects.

Did I get lucky or will the wine vinegar and refrigeration keep these items good for a longer period of time?

[maldon007]

I knew raw eggs were good to go, especially if NOT washed/messed with. But I had read, once you cook them, that protective layer is gone, and decay starts right away... Like any food that needs a fridge. This info was from folks who do canning and the like, on this forum... But I have no personal experience.

[Exploriment]

• Doubled grocery bags to hang food if I want
  - You need something far more impervious to both keep the smell from getting out and critters from getting in
• Super glue (for closing wounds)
  - Don't do this. Just a bad idea.
• Toenail clippers (surprised more people don't consider the condition of their toenails important enough) -
  - Oh I consider my toenails very important. If I’m going on an overnighter, I take a good look at my toenails, administer to them as required and then leave the toenail clippers at home. For an overnight camping trip, they’re just more stuff that isn’t really needed. For a two week trip - absolutely - take them.

[Shaper]

3 band aids, super glue, pain killers, and duct tape for an INCH first aid kit...that's some hard core shite right there.

[Darxus]

• Doubled grocery bags to hang food if I want
  - You need something far more impervious to both keep the smell from getting out and critters from getting in

Do I?

• Super glue (for closing wounds)
  - Don't do this. Just a bad idea.

I've read a lot about this, and talked to at least one person who has used super glue to close minor wounds at least once. "a CA spray was used in the Vietnam War to retard bleeding in wounded soldiers until they could be brought to a hospital. Butyl cyanoacrylate has been used medically since the 1970s outside the US, but due to its potential to irritate the skin, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration did not approve its use as a medical adhesive until 1998 with Dermabond." - wikipedia

So super glue (ethyl cyanoacrylate) has been used outside the US medically since the 1970s, but not in the US due to potential to irritate skin, which is less of a problem with dermabond (2-octyl cyanoacrylate).

So what's your reason for not using super glue to close wounds?

Dermabond is commonly available, just much more expensive.

• Toenail clippers (surprised more people don't consider the condition of their toenails important enough) -
  - Oh I consider my toenails very important. If I’m going on an overnighter, I take a good look at my toenails, administer to them as required and then leave the toenail clippers at home. For an overnight camping trip, they’re just more stuff that isn’t really needed. For a two week trip - absolutely - take them.

Ah, yeah, this bag is intended for longer than an overnight.

3 band aids, super glue, pain killers, and duct tape for an INCH first aid kit...that's some hard core shite right there.

Yeah, I've never been very good about that. Should probably add more.

[Darxus]

A bunch of us go camping almost every month, year round here in northern NY, and would love to have you come and join us...we're all learning as we go, and love nothing more than hanging out in camp sharing and showing off our gear...

That sounds great. Where do I find more info?

It occurred to me to follow the link in your sig. 5 hours seems like a long drive for the September trip, but I'll try to keep an eye on them.

[Aim2Maim]

Check out the first aid section for some good info on starting a good first aid kit. Also the Where to buy thread is excellent for FAK supplies.

[maldon007]

I have read super glue damages cells, so the medical grade equivalent, which does not, is the way to go.

BUT I have used it on myself a couple of times, small wounds on nuckles, etc. where healing was too slow, and it worked good. Also I have used it on animals (dogs) for serious wounds, and for reinforcing stitches that kept getting popped. All with good results... So I keep some for that use, basically emergency closure, when stitches would have been needed, but you cant get them for some reason. When I do use it, I always try to glue the actual top layer of skin on each side, together, not fill the wound with glue.

Or, what i did on myself once, was glue a few small strips of plastic across the wound, like butterfly closures... but glued. This way it was held closed but could drain/get air... Anyway, I know it's anecdotal but it has worked for me almost every time. BUT it takes patience & delicacy to a degree, to NOT fill the would with glue, which I dont think would be good

[MichaelM]

I have read super glue damages cells, so the medical grade equivalent, which does not, is the way to go.

Some quick research later...

It looks like most non-medical type super glue is made from methyl-2-cyanoacrylate, which can cause skin irritation. It also has some distinct disadvantages for medical applications. For example, when it polymerizes it can release a great deal of heat, which has been known to cause skin to blister if there's enough glue present. Second, it breaks down and releases -- among other things -- formaldehyde; that's just plain awful to do to yourself.

Medical super glue is made from 2-octyl-cyanoacrylate, which is FDA approved for closing wounds. It appears to cause less skin irritation and to be more flexible, so it's less likely to crack and begin to bleed again.

Either way, if you're bleeding enough to need to glue yourself shut, get the Hell to the emergency room ASAP. Glue isn't a substitute for medical treatment, although dermal bond properly applied by a doctor can close wounds in a way that will minimize scarring as compared to stitches.

(As always, I am not a medical professional. If you have any serious medical questions, talk to someone qualified to answer them. I'm just a dude on the internet who knows how to find stuff using Google.)

[maldon007]

Either way, if you're bleeding enough to need to glue yourself shut, get the Hell to the emergency room ASAP. Glue isn't a substitute for medical treatment, although dermal bond properly applied by a doctor can close wounds in a way that will minimize scarring as compared to stitches.

Right, but the point is, having something to close a wound in that rare circumstance where you can't get to a doctor & if it is not closed infection is a great likelihood... Say, on a 3 day hike and your 3 days from help... or something. But yeah, last resort.

As far as the heat... Never felt any, and I have had up to a one inch circle of it on me (spill).. though I did wipe the excess off quickly, a thin coat was still left, no issue. It must take a good dolup of it to get hot... I have felt it with epoxy though

[Exploriment]

• Doubled grocery bags to hang food if I want
  - You need something far more impervious to both keep the smell from getting out and critters from getting in

Do I?

Yeah. You do. Not only will plastic grocery bags not do much good at keeping out the smells that might attract vermin, it will also provide no defense against mice and the like getting in to it if they do smell something. A SeaLine type bag is the minimum line of defense.

• Super glue (for closing wounds)
  - Don't do this. Just a bad idea.

I've read a lot about this, and talked to at least one person who has used super glue to close minor wounds at least once.

What's your reason for not using super glue to close wounds?

Because you’re someone whose entire first aid kit consists of 3 bandaids, some superglue and a few pain killers. How do you irrigate wounds? What about gauze? How do you stop a major bleeder? When people far more experienced or knowledgeable than you or I advise against closing wounds with super glue or any of its derivatives, I take that as a hint. It may have a place in a sterile operating theater where people who know what they're doing, apply it in certain instances. After you've just slid down a hill, tearing open your leg? Yeah right. Stop the leak, protect it from infection / further abrasion, repair properly as the situation allows. The situation that would allow that is a hospital. When you’re out in the bush, you stop the bleeding, with an absorbent dressing and pressure, and once the bleeding stops, you cleanse the wound of debris as best you can and then you close the wound with steristrips or something like it. You don't try to patch yourself up by pouring superglue in an open wound as it’s a great way to show up at the hospital with puss oozing out of a wound. If you do need to travel a ways to a medical facility, say days, having a wound that isn’t completely closed, you can re-irrigate that wound, and deal with infections before they get out of control.

You need to get proper first aid training and carry a proper fist aid kit, and not rely on information from one person who used csuper glue once to close a minor wound.

[maldon007]

Damn good point, and sorry if I came off as suggesting it for his kit... I was more/less off topic and arguing that it's use, in general, under very limited circumstances, might be ok.

No first aid class will ever teach it's use, and there is a reason. Clean water for irrigating wounds, big 4" rolls of Kling gauze, 4x4's, and some good tape will work better for 99.99% of situations... So yeah, look around here at the FAK's and read up... Then take a class, if you can.

[ninja-elbow]

SUper glue, bandaids and painkillers is a boo boo kit. You need to be able to stop major bleeding and increase the mobility of a limb that was suddenly and traumatically made immobile. Skills in this area are good and an Izzy and duct tape and such are very helpful in supplementing skills.

Plastic grocery bags, in my experience, are not durable enough for "the dirt". You don't need anyting expensive or such, a ditty bag and paracord are enough. If you are worried about smell, then you need to get something different.

Hard boiled eggs do not last very long in a pack compared to raw eggs.

[Hachiman]

I like where your heading with your kit and understand some of the thought process behind it. I am having to completely change my approach to a BOB/INCH due to recent back injuries and its strange not being able to load up a 40-45lb pack and just roll with it.

My question is:

How many snares can you get out of 6' of wire? For snaring to be effective you would need several set out to maximize your chances of harvesting game.

[Darxus]

I like where your heading with your kit and understand some of the thought process behind it.

Thanks.

How many snares can you get out of 6' of wire? For snaring to be effective you would need several set out to maximize your chances of harvesting game.

6' was just so I didn't kick myself if civilization collapsed while I was out. The place I got it from says "Most survival kit makers recommend a 50 foot length, giving ample wire in case it is needed for other tasks." - http://www.bestglide.com/snare_wire.html

"...each snare will generally take a foot or two of wire, for most purposes, and in most cases you can expect about a 10% return on your snare investment, unless you've considerable experience. In other words, carry plenty of snare wire. It isn't bulky or terribly heavy, so 20 ft. is the bare minimum you should carry. I carry 50 ft. and consider that a reasonable amount." - http://www.equipped.com/devices29.htm
"I carry about 50 feet of snare wire and about 25 feet of parachute 550 cord." - http://www.simplesurvival.net/snares.htm
(Just more numbers quickly found via google.)

50' sounds good to me.