Best all around livestock animal?

by **wee drop o' bush** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:50 pm

High Protein feed is shockingly expensive! When ram lambs are overfed it alongside cabbages they blow up in size but then melt to nothing for the poor farmer who buys them but doesn't overfeed:evil:
We don't over feed or ever use cabbages

by **Anianna** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:55 pm

Rev wrote:
Our farm has always been "organic". This does not mean that we are crusaders for the environment or anything just that for the past eighty odd years we've been too poor to afford things like herbicides, pesticides, absurd amounts of fertilizer, hormone injections for the cattle, or that "high protein feed" that apparently is an abomination.

Our cattle are almost completely grass and hay fed except for mineral and the occasional sweet feed to reward them for coming when called.

That's the best way, in my opinion. Most illness and issues can be prevented with good husbandry.

Rev wrote:
Anianna wrote:I'm changing my answer.

Bees.

I've been meaning to start beekeeping in a small way on the farm but my mother is hard to convince on account of her allergy.

How big is your farm? If you put a hive or two far enough away from the house that she can't see them (out of sight, out of mind, so to speak), she's not likely to ever be bothered by the bees at all. I am allergic, too, though most people who are allergic to stinging insects are only mildly allergic to honeybees, suffering only localized swelling. Fatal allergies to honeybees are extremely rare. A good allergist would be able to tell her the level of response she would have to domestic honeybees. She probably wouldn't even need to keep an epipen for honeybees even if she keeps one for other flying insects. Besides that, domestic honeybees are very docile and hard to anger enough to get stung, particularly if you aren't the one messing with the hive.

by **Ad'lan** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:18 pm

My grandad kept bees. Without sugar beet or imported cane or maple/birch, it's the only source of sugar. There's somany uses for honey, mead and meat preservation are two key ones. Honey cure ham

And they might be vital if commercial hives scum to colony failure.

by **KnightoftheRoc** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:55 pm

Ad'lan wrote:My grandad kept bees. Without sugar beet or imported cane or maple/birch, it's the only source of sugar. There's somany uses for honey, mead and meat preservation are two key ones. Honey cure ham

And they might be vital if commercial hives scum to colony failure.

I'm familiar with how to get sugar from the others, including maple syrup- but I've never heard of birch being a source. Would you be willing to expand on that, please? There's quite a few maple trees tapped in out area- one guy right in town has the three trees outside the front of his house tapped in the spring. I don't think he gets much, but I give him credit for trying. Do you tap birch the same way? or is there another method?

by **Anianna** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:26 pm

KnightoftheRoc wrote:
Ad'lan wrote:My grandad kept bees. Without sugar beet or imported cane or maple/birch, it's the only source of sugar. There's somany uses for honey, mead and meat preservation are two key ones. Honey cure ham

And they might be vital if commercial hives scum to colony failure.

I'm familiar with how to get sugar from the others, including maple syrup- but I've never heard of birch being a source. Would you be willing to expand on that, please? There's quite a few maple trees tapped in out area- one guy right in town has the three trees outside the front of his house tapped in the spring. I don't think he gets much, but I give him credit for trying. Do you tap birch the same way? or is there another method?

Well, I learned something new.

http://www.3dchem.com/moremolecules.asp ... ch%20sugar

http://www.xylitol.org/about-xylitol

I'm still looking for how it gets from the tree to a granular sugar, though ...

by **Kirby** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:16 pm

KnightoftheRoc wrote:Oh, is THAT what the Leprechauns ride?

Dexters are the leprechauns pot of gold.

by **KnightoftheRoc** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:11 pm

Anianna wrote:
KnightoftheRoc wrote:
Ad'lan wrote:My grandad kept bees. Without sugar beet or imported cane or maple/birch, it's the only source of sugar. There's somany uses for honey, mead and meat preservation are two key ones. Honey cure ham

And they might be vital if commercial hives scum to colony failure.

I'm familiar with how to get sugar from the others, including maple syrup- but I've never heard of birch being a source. Would you be willing to expand on that, please? There's quite a few maple trees tapped in out area- one guy right in town has the three trees outside the front of his house tapped in the spring. I don't think he gets much, but I give him credit for trying. Do you tap birch the same way? or is there another method?

Well, I learned something new.

http://www.3dchem.com/moremolecules.asp ... ch%20sugar

http://www.xylitol.org/about-xylitol

I'm still looking for how it gets from the tree to a granular sugar, though ...

well- that DOES explain why I never feel the need to sweeten my birch twig tea.

by **Ad'lan** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:26 am

KnightoftheRoc wrote:I'm familiar with how to get sugar from the others, including maple syrup- but I've never heard of birch being a source. Would you be willing to expand on that, please? There's quite a few maple trees tapped in out area- one guy right in town has the three trees outside the front of his house tapped in the spring. I don't think he gets much, but I give him credit for trying. Do you tap birch the same way? or is there another method?

I've not reduced it to sugar, but yeah, you tap birch in the spring, and reduce it as you do maple sap, you can make syrup or sugar. But I understand it takes a lot more sap to produce, being less concentrated.

by **Perkidanman** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:34 am

I'm voting for an pygmy angora goat. You get a small goat that gives you milk, cheese, meat, skin, and fiber for spinning.

Anianna, I'll trade you some toasty warm knit long johns in the ZPAW for some of your honey :wink:

by **Anianna** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:10 pm

Perkidanman wrote:I'm voting for an pygmy angora goat. You get a small goat that gives you milk, cheese, meat, skin, and fiber for spinning.

Anianna, I'll trade you some toasty warm knit long johns in the ZPAW for some of your honey

Sounds like a plan! How about some beeswax lipbalm for some of that cheese, too?

by **dukman** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:31 pm

Anianna wrote:I have been told (though I do not yet have personal experience with it) that once you acclimate a goat to a home (ie, lock it in a barn for a period of time) you don't need a fence or leashes and you can free-range it. It should, in theory, wander the property munching and come back to the barn at night or in bad weather. I plan to give this a try at some point.

Our goats tried to escape every time the opportunity came up. If they saw you open a gate, they always tried to make a run for it. They would never run all that far, it is more a "Grass is greener on the other side" type thing, but there is no way we would have gone without fences. They may try to come back to the barn at night, but if one got lost from the herd, they wouldn't be able to find their way back and their baying would easily attract prey animals. Fences also help keep out the prey animals and give them less area to hide and stalk the goats. Also you would have to worry about neighbors not liking the goats on their property.

by **Anianna** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:54 pm

dukman wrote:
Anianna wrote:I have been told (though I do not yet have personal experience with it) that once you acclimate a goat to a home (ie, lock it in a barn for a period of time) you don't need a fence or leashes and you can free-range it. It should, in theory, wander the property munching and come back to the barn at night or in bad weather. I plan to give this a try at some point.

Our goats tried to escape every time the opportunity came up. If they saw you open a gate, they always tried to make a run for it. They would never run all that far, it is more a "Grass is greener on the other side" type thing, but there is no way we would have gone without fences. They may try to come back to the barn at night, but if one got lost from the herd, they wouldn't be able to find their way back and their baying would easily attract prey animals. Fences also help keep out the prey animals and give them less area to hide and stalk the goats. Also you would have to worry about neighbors not liking the goats on their property.

Thank you. Do you have an idea about how far they roam when they get out? We don't have any close neighbors. Would they roam into wooded areas given the opportunity?

I have a friend who lives in a remote mountain community in southwestern Virginia near the KY border. Some people down there have a tendency to get livestock and let them loose on abandoned strip mines and such. There are cattle just roaming up there with no fences and there are goats climbing the craggy rock walls left by the mining process. I have no idea how the owners tend to their critters and I'm pretty sure the goats can be considered feral. There's no approaching them, so I don't see how the owners get any use of them, but they're there for the taking if the "pocky-clipse" ever happens.

by **Resolute** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:31 pm

I'll be honest, I only skimmed the last half of this thread, but my vote is for sheep. Here's why...

If it's just the two of you, they're a great size for a freezer. You won't have a huge portion of meat to deal with.

Their poop doesn't kill the ground it hits, like cow poop does. Cow patties smother the grass underneath and it takes a while to come back. Sheep poop just falls through to the ground.

Sheep are easier on the environment/existing grass because they're lighter on the hoof than heavier animals. It decreases erosion too.

You can make things with their wool.

Their meat is tasty.

They don't try and escape like goats. Goats see a fence like a challenge and will find a way to get to the other side. Bastards. I do think they're damn cute, though.

Their milk is actually pretty rich - you can drink it, make soaps out of it, very nice cheese, etc.

If you want a non-picky animal that can graze on anything, go for an older heritage breed of sheep. Jacobs are great size-wise, and they eat like goats do.

Full disclosure: I got 3 sheep this year and they've cleaned the back half of my property pretty well - thorn vines and all. They're pretty awesome.

I'm sure there are other things to be said, but that's all I have right now.

by **wee drop o' bush** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:01 pm

Resolute

'xactly:D

by **Anianna** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:35 pm

Can you free range sheep?

by **colinz** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:02 pm

Free range as in 'let them run around in a large fenced off area", yes.

by **nateted4** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:14 pm

Anianna wrote:Do you have an idea about how far they roam when they get out? We don't have any close neighbors. Would they roam into wooded areas given the opportunity?

Yes, they are great for keeping ground cover cleared out of forested areas. They are browsers, not grazers by nature and will munch low leaves and bushes and such.

by **wee drop o' bush** » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:44 pm

Anianna wrote:Can you free range sheep?

Our sheep only spend time indoors if they're pregnant & imminently due to give birth. Once they've lambed & are both bonded & doing well they go back outside again. Our fields are fenced to keep our livestock within them but as we use 5 rams its necessary to separate them or they'd fight.

by **buck85** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:08 am

My fellow ZS all make good points for their favorite chose of live stock. All would be a good chose, if, in a stable location and social situation. What, if you are less fortunate or chose to be more mobile? What about an animal that in the far east is considered a delicacy? What about an animal, that not only will protect you and hunt with you, but follows along with out prodding? What about your dog?

by **ZombieGranny** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:52 am

buck85 wrote:My fellow ZS all make good points for their favorite chose of live stock. All would be a good chose, if, in a stable location and social situation. What, if you are less fortunate or chose to be more mobile? What about an animal that in the far east is considered a delicacy? What about an animal, that not only will protect you and hunt with you, but follows along with out prodding? What about your dog?

Please let us NOT start this discussion again.
It always gets out of hand.
-
I like chickens.

by **offcamber** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:40 am

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned ducks yet.. personally I think their eggs taste better than chicken eggs and they are significantly larger. They are also less noisy, survive harsh winter environments better, forage more efficiently than chickens, and male ducks are way less aggressive than roosters.

We currently have 4 ducks, 3 female and one male. I will never raise chickens again, lol.

Also, to those who mentioned bees, we are in our first year of bee keeping and absolutely love it. We are still trying to get the knack of it, but we are getting there. There is a pretty steep learning curve, but we hooked up with a bunch of great local folks as well as the local bee keeping society.. everyone in the bee keeping community is awesome. They just want to make sure bee keeping doesn't go away. Not many folks do it anymore.

Anyway, honey is f'ing awesome.. the first year with all equipment is pricey though. We borrowed an extractor this season, and will be buying one for next year.

All in all, we started with three active hives, and split one so we now have four total. We also had one hive swarm.. it was awesome to watch. I got in the bee suit and scooped them all into an new hive body.. they stayed all night, but ended up swarming again and flying away the next day, lol. Oh well!

To sum up, I vote ducks, followed a close second by bees.

by **Electricity** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:15 am

I'm surprised this thread hasn't been linked yet (I don't think I missed it..).
Czechnology's Quail! *Now with baby bunnies!*
An awesome read right there.

by **KnightoftheRoc** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:28 am

buck85 wrote:My fellow ZS all make good points for their favorite chose of live stock. All would be a good chose, if, in a stable location and social situation. What, if you are less fortunate or chose to be more mobile? What about an animal that in the far east is considered a delicacy? What about an animal, that not only will protect you and hunt with you, but follows along with out prodding? What about your dog?

Or, you could go with the mid-east, and raise camels.- fiber, milk, meat (I guess)as well as a pack animal and a ride.

by **Rev** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:30 am

KnightoftheRoc wrote:
buck85 wrote:My fellow ZS all make good points for their favorite chose of live stock. All would be a good chose, if, in a stable location and social situation. What, if you are less fortunate or chose to be more mobile? What about an animal that in the far east is considered a delicacy? What about an animal, that not only will protect you and hunt with you, but follows along with out prodding? What about your dog?

Or, you could go with the mid-east, and raise camels.- fiber, milk, meat (I guess)as well as a pack animal and a ride.

They milk and eat horses. If you're in the right climate zone yak seem interesting.