They DO exist - Coleman Peak 1 frames mounting ALICE ruck

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They DO exist - Coleman Peak 1 frames mounting ALICE ruck

Post by TacAir » Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:59 pm

They do exist!

I found a original (American-made?) Coleman Peak 1 pack and frame, the flex frame of Internet legend - one that is 20+ years old.

Image

After stripping off the PEAK 1 pack - (not a bad pack BTW) I went on to see if the legends were true
1) You could fit the frame to ALICE Medium ruck
2) MOLLE straps would fit like they were made for the frame.
3) You can carry more with this and it is more comfortable than the LC-1 (LC-2) frame.


Image
Yes, you can put an ALICE medium on the frame - sorta.

Image
The ALICE ruck attaches using the D rings normally used by the shoulder straps - the two short MOLLE straps, oddly, are perfect for this.


Image
Bottom of ALICE ruck has an attachment slot at "just the right spot" - creepy accurate, just like - yup, the frame was made for the ruck.


Image
MOLLE shoulder straps go on, just like they had been made exactly for the frame.


Image
MOLLE belt attached as thought it had been made exactly for the frame.

Image
Yes, you have plenty of room on the bottom for a MSS bag, sleeping bag, mats, whatever. The frame is over a foot longer the the LC series frame. It will not support a shelf unit though. The training pack (butt) pack on top is used for chow as noted in an earlier posting. It is almost 1/2 of the internal volume of the Medium ruck - and allows for hanging food up in the trees at camp.


Oh, hell yes is it a lot more comfortable than an LC-1 frame, but it flexs, so care is called for - IOW, don't drop the rig. IF you run across one of these at a garage sale, snap it up, you will have the makings of the better Hellcat rig.
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Re: They DO exist - Coleman Peak 1 frames mounting ALICE ruc

Post by TacAir » Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:19 pm

Extra Note

THe ruck will not fit using the pocket on the rear of the ruck without cutting the 'shoulders' of the frame. I don't see that ending well in any case and you lose the wide attachment points for the MOLLE shoulder straps.

THe D rings work, but you do have to have something in the ruck to give it some shape. Otherwise it will shift more than a bit. A full ruck won't shift/

Other other questions?
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Re: They DO exist - Coleman Peak 1 frames mounting ALICE ruc

Post by RonnyRonin » Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:15 pm

wow, didn't know these were rare, I totally have 2 of these sitting around. unfortunately my dad chopped one of them up for a daypack frame, but I still have one full length one.

I really hate the molle straps so i think I'll make my own from scratch some day (or just make a converter to use the ILBE/Arcteryx straps), if I get really ambitious I'll make a dedicated custom ruck as well.

I agree that this frame has a lot of potential and beats the crap out of the molle and ALICE frame.
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Re: They DO exist - Coleman Peak 1 frames mounting ALICE ruc

Post by Confucius » Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:25 pm

Oooh, I've got one of those frames, might have to try this out...

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Re: They DO exist - Coleman Peak 1 frames mounting ALICE ruc

Post by slingstone » Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:04 am

RonnyRonin wrote:I agree that this frame has a lot of potential and beats the crap out of the molle and ALICE frame.
Perhaps for civilian/recreational use, but such a fragile frame is a no-go for military applications and those with similar expectations. I don't want a pack I can't drop. Maybe DEI could recreate this frame with modern plastic and ribbing to make it tougher, but until then I'll stick with the tried and true.

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Re: They DO exist - Coleman Peak 1 frames mounting ALICE ruc

Post by Confucius » Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:25 am

slingstone wrote:
RonnyRonin wrote:I agree that this frame has a lot of potential and beats the crap out of the molle and ALICE frame.
Perhaps for civilian/recreational use, but such a fragile frame is a no-go for military applications and those with similar expectations. I don't want a pack I can't drop. Maybe DEI could recreate this frame with modern plastic and ribbing to make it tougher, but until then I'll stick with the tried and true.
For what it's worth, I beat the shit out of my peak 1 frame, and it's still going strong.

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Re: They DO exist - Coleman Peak 1 frames mounting ALICE ruc

Post by TacAir » Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:22 am

slingstone wrote:
RonnyRonin wrote:I agree that this frame has a lot of potential and beats the crap out of the molle and ALICE frame.
Perhaps for civilian/recreational use, but such a fragile frame is a no-go for military applications and those with similar expectations. I don't want a pack I can't drop. Maybe DEI could recreate this frame with modern plastic and ribbing to make it tougher, but until then I'll stick with the tried and true.
Some Airborne! troops were pretty pumped about the Peak 1 for Airborne! use.
http://www.combatreform.org/rucksack.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And
http://www.1shepherd.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=350" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and
http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php? ... 805.0;wap2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showth ... 472&page=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (talks about 82nd ABN using the setup.

What struck me was that the old (20+ years old) frame seemed to 'fit' the MOLLE straps and that the medium ALICE ruck fit so well - like the frame had been made for them. I mean the MOLLE stuff fit perfectly - straps sized to fit slots, the spacing - everything. I cannot believe it is just an odd happeing.

Really odd - the DEI MOLLE frame looks so much like the old-school Coleman product - yes?

AS far as military tried and true - much of the field gear is COTS these days - off the shelf. The US Marine's ILBE system is pretty much a copy of the Arc'Teryx system in funky MARPAT colors. (http://www.ilbepack.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

IOW - It was dsigned by Arc’teryx’s LEAF (Law Enforcement and Armed Forces) program and manufactured by Propper Inc., the USMC ILBE is made from Cordura 725 denier fabric, with pixilated MARPAT (MARine PATtern) printed onto it. The pack also bears a PALS grid (Pouch Attachment Ladder System) for smaller modular attachments.

OK - it costs more as well.
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Re: They DO exist - Coleman Peak 1 frames mounting ALICE ruc

Post by Kutter_0311 » Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:27 am

slingstone wrote:
RonnyRonin wrote:I agree that this frame has a lot of potential and beats the crap out of the molle and ALICE frame.
Perhaps for civilian/recreational use, but such a fragile frame is a no-go for military applications and those with similar expectations. I don't want a pack I can't drop. Maybe DEI could recreate this frame with modern plastic and ribbing to make it tougher, but until then I'll stick with the tried and true.
SOOOooo...

You guys haven't heard of DEI's Airborne 1606 ALICE Compatible frame? Here's a pic with the MOLLE straps...
Image
And with Med ALICE, MOLLE MSS, Combat Tent, E-tool, etc...
Image
And naked in 3 colors...
Image
JAYNE COBB wrote: Well, what you plan and what takes place ain't ever exactly been similar.
TravisM.1 wrote:If a rifle is an option, a rifle is usually the answer.
minengr wrote:I've said it numerous times, a quality rig is only as good as it's weakest link. Which usually is the nut behind the butt.

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Re: They DO exist - Coleman Peak 1 frames mounting ALICE ruc

Post by TacAir » Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:10 pm

Kutter_0311 wrote:
slingstone wrote:
RonnyRonin wrote:I agree that this frame has a lot of potential and beats the crap out of the molle and ALICE frame.
Perhaps for civilian/recreational use, but such a fragile frame is a no-go for military applications and those with similar expectations. I don't want a pack I can't drop. Maybe DEI could recreate this frame with modern plastic and ribbing to make it tougher, but until then I'll stick with the tried and true.
SOOOooo...

You guys haven't heard of DEI's Airborne 1606 ALICE Compatible frame? Here's a pic with the MOLLE straps...
Image
And with Med ALICE, MOLLE MSS, Combat Tent, E-tool, etc...
Image
And naked in 3 colors...
Image

LOL
Yes, yes I have.

Coleman at groj sale = 5 USD = WIN

DEI = 35.91 USD for frame Plus pad adapter set (47 dollars!!) and another 35 USD for shipping to Alaska. Expensive. Horribly expensive. Even without shipping, REI can beat that price on a good frame set.

I have pinged the local AFFES outlet - more than once - so see if they will carry the 1606 frame - and even with photos, I just get blank looks. Thinking outside of the box in not part of the job description.... I guess no NSN, no go.

The point of the OP was to show that the Coleman Peak 1 can be used with MOLLE
and ALICE, almost like it had been made to work with those other systems - or that the MOLLE frame was a knockoff of the Coleman product.

Thanks for the photos.
TacAir - I'd rather be a disappointed pessimist than a horrified optimist
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Re: They DO exist - Coleman Peak 1 frames mounting ALICE ruc

Post by northernxposure » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:17 pm

The tech in the Coleman Peak1 is nothing new - many of the old aluminum frames used the same type of bar connector slots to mount up the packs. Where the P1 was different was it was actually a plastic frame that could handle the weight that the metal ones could, and could flex with the user.

The other main reason why the P1 had so many strap holes was that the P1 was designed to cover a huge range of torso lengths, where some of the old metal frames had to be purchased the same as many small/medium and medium/large packs now. Coleman cheaped out and put the adjusters all over - but they could get away with it due to the weight of the plastic frame.

The DEI and P1 are similar, but the taller height of the P1 is really what makes it shine as a load hauler as you can set the load lifters at a much steeper angle to bend the frame in. The 1603 doesn't really have this height, same for the 1606. The military doesn't like to have frames too tall that they impede the function of the helmet, and anyone that's used a tall external frame pack can tell you that smack your head on the frame in certain positions.

I'd love to see DEI make a P1-esque frame - a lot of people still like it, I'm one of them, and a modern material/design/facelift would be an awesome addition to the external frame world.

NXP

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Re: They DO exist - Coleman Peak 1 frames mounting ALICE ruc

Post by Kutter_0311 » Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:00 pm

TacAir wrote:I have pinged the local AFFES outlet - more than once - so see if they will carry the 1606 frame - and even with photos, I just get blank looks. Thinking outside of the box in not part of the job description.... I guess no NSN, no go.

The point of the OP was to show that the Coleman Peak 1 can be used with MOLLE
and ALICE, almost like it had been made to work with those other systems - or that the MOLLE frame was a knockoff of the Coleman product.

Thanks for the photos.
Didn't mean to steal your thunder, the Coleman is a great example of a product that arrived on the market far before its time. $5 is a great price for a frame of that design, and if you can find spares at that price, I would snatch them up. Not sure how time-stable plastics were in those days, I do know some get brittle.

On the 1606, skip the 'adapter' BS and just mount a MOLLE belt. I never order frames 1 at a time, either. I ordered 10 1603's off Ebay, and sold off all I didn't need to other ZS'ers. I've ordered 2 orders of 3 1606's now, and I should have ordered 10. If there are military comonents in your area, they sell themselves like crack. Order an amount that makes shipping feasable, call them and they'll work with you. They may even have a distributor in Alaska, or make you one, who knows.
JAYNE COBB wrote: Well, what you plan and what takes place ain't ever exactly been similar.
TravisM.1 wrote:If a rifle is an option, a rifle is usually the answer.
minengr wrote:I've said it numerous times, a quality rig is only as good as it's weakest link. Which usually is the nut behind the butt.

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Re: They DO exist - Coleman Peak 1 frames mounting ALICE ruc

Post by 6UNF1GHTER » Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:47 pm

Tac-
I've used that olde Coleman frame, back in my BSoA days... and I'd always liked it somewhat.. even though it was a little large for a 12 year old like me back then. :) Now, some 3 decades later... I'm still somewhat in the idea of "searching for the perfect ruck" meh. And, I'm still workin' on perfecting my own combo based on the ALICE.

-----------------------------

Like Kutter, (great advice BTW guys) I've used the DEI 1606 frame on the medium ruck. When combined with the MOLLE suspension and MSS bag, it feels right to me but it all depends on your loadout, and torso... as the 1606 is shorter. YMMV though.
Still love the ALICE for it's simplicity, durability and availability... hands down (said it before and I'll say it again) the best ruck for those on a budget, and even moreso for those of us that just can't have enough packs for experimentation platforms.
(BTW I'm no longer allowed to buy any sort of backpack.. SO says)

I'll be the first to say this:
Who wants to help with getting him a 1606 frame for review and testing?
I'd be willing to chip in for the cause.
What about you?

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Re: They DO exist - Coleman Peak 1 frames mounting ALICE ruc

Post by TacAir » Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:35 am

6UNF1GHTER wrote:Tac-
I've used that olde Coleman frame, back in my BSoA days... and I'd always liked it somewhat.. even though it was a little large for a 12 year old like me back then. :) Now, some 3 decades later... I'm still somewhat in the idea of "searching for the perfect ruck" meh. And, I'm still workin' on perfecting my own combo based on the ALICE.

-----------------------------

Like Kutter, (great advice BTW guys) I've used the DEI 1606 frame on the medium ruck. When combined with the MOLLE suspension and MSS bag, it feels right to me but it all depends on your loadout, and torso... as the 1606 is shorter. YMMV though.
Still love the ALICE for it's simplicity, durability and availability... hands down (said it before and I'll say it again) the best ruck for those on a budget, and even moreso for those of us that just can't have enough packs for experimentation platforms.
(BTW I'm no longer allowed to buy any sort of backpack.. SO says)

I'll be the first to say this:
Who wants to help with getting him a 1606 frame for review and testing?
I'd be willing to chip in for the cause.
What about you?

6-gun~

Please, no.
I just gave away the rig in the photos as a gift, so it is in a new home with new (and younger) user.

And several have already posted reviews of the 1606 frame - it does well for what it is.

Thanks for the thought, but again, no.
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Re: They DO exist - Coleman Peak 1 frames mounting ALICE ruc

Post by Kutter_0311 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:08 am

6UNF1GHTER wrote:Still love the ALICE for it's simplicity, durability and availability... hands down (said it before and I'll say it again) the best ruck for those on a budget, and even moreso for those of us that just can't have enough packs for experimentation platforms.
(BTW I'm no longer allowed to buy any sort of backpack.. SO says)
I'm in the same boat, SO's unhappy with 2 boxes of MOLLE straps that came last week.

She'll be less happy when the 2 actual rucks arive...
6UNF1GHTER wrote:Who wants to help with getting him a 1606 frame for review and testing?
I'd be willing to chip in for the cause.
What about you?
I'd totally be down with that!

As long as it doesn't get shipped to my house :lol:
JAYNE COBB wrote: Well, what you plan and what takes place ain't ever exactly been similar.
TravisM.1 wrote:If a rifle is an option, a rifle is usually the answer.
minengr wrote:I've said it numerous times, a quality rig is only as good as it's weakest link. Which usually is the nut behind the butt.

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Re: They DO exist - Coleman Peak 1 frames mounting ALICE ruc

Post by northernxposure » Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:09 am

Kutter - Dang it man, have you learned nothing? Blame it on me! :D Seriously, I need to go get my frames from you - this week sucks. Stupid mother nature breaking trees which break fences and houses... :gonk:

6UNF1GHTER - Personally, and I'm biased, I think the best solution for those that want to stick with ALICE is the MR NICE frame. Spendy for sure, but it's a modern frame with incredibly simple adjustability that can adapt torso size in seconds and still support more than any normal person would ever want to carry. My only two gripes about it is how stiff it is on loads under 25#, and that it's missing some of the height of a more traditional frame which really helps on 70+# loads. There was whispering of MR making either a longer frame or some type of bayonet system like McHale packs, but nothing has come of either of them.

For those of you guys that are grumbling about the 1603, you really should go check out the new stuff that Kifaru has come up with. They've got DL Adapters as well as a Cargo Panel that can intergrate almost all of the Kifaru pouches onto the 1603 - a spendy way to doll up the 1603, but if you want modular it's MODULAR.

Here's one of Mel's pics from the thread in Tactical:

Image

I'd still be down for a P1 style frame from DEI. I spotted a similar style from another manufacturer of dubious quality the other day, and imitation is no substitute for the real deal.

NXP

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Re: They DO exist - Coleman Peak 1 frames mounting ALICE ruc

Post by troll1000 » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:09 pm

Anybody tried a bullpac frame for Alice. They make one specifically for the Alice pack. It is spendy but looks like a really really good frame that can also be used without a pack since it has a built in shelf. You could easily go modular on it with some strategic strapping/bungeeing.
http://www.bullpacs.com/new.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: They DO exist - Coleman Peak 1 frames mounting ALICE ruc

Post by TacAir » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:24 pm

troll1000 wrote:Anybody tried a bullpac frame for Alice. They make one specifically for the Alice pack. It is spendy but looks like a really really good frame that can also be used without a pack since it has a built in shelf. You could easily go modular on it with some strategic strapping/bungeeing.
http://www.bullpacs.com/new.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
AH cool - but at 189 USD for the frame, all I can say is HOLY MOTHER OF PEARL! That IS pricy! It it my be made from compressed magic and unicorn tears, but that is way outside of my price range, esp for a 10 USD Ruck.

Thanks for the link tho, 1st I have seen of this vendor, does look like they offer some cool tech.
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Re: They DO exist - Coleman Peak 1 frames mounting ALICE ruc

Post by Jeriah » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:30 pm

Modern version of the Peak 1, now called the Dragonfly? http://www.amazon.com/Outdoor-Products- ... B0007Q3VFS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Image

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Re: They DO exist - Coleman Peak 1 frames mounting ALICE ruc

Post by northernxposure » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:41 pm

TacAir wrote:AH cool - but at 189 USD for the frame, all I can say is HOLY MOTHER OF PEARL! That IS pricy! It it my be made from compressed magic and unicorn tears, but that is way outside of my price range, esp for a 10 USD Ruck.
Relatively cheap for a formed aluminum external, especially when you consider the company it's trying to compete against. You can find them cheaper, but for the money the 1606 is the way to go.

Decade old used Dana externals go for much more than that...

Also consider that the MR NICE was made to accommodate the ALICE pack, and those go for quite a bit more than the Bullpac.

Jeriah -

I've seen that frame, and it's very close but the plastic frame just doesn't "feel" as stout as the original Peak 1. I suppose that's to be expected with a 50$ external...

NXP

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Re: They DO exist - Coleman Peak 1 frames mounting ALICE ruc

Post by TacAir » Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:19 am

northernxposure wrote:
TacAir wrote:AH cool - but at 189 USD for the frame, all I can say is HOLY MOTHER OF PEARL! That IS pricy! It it my be made from compressed magic and unicorn tears, but that is way outside of my price range, esp for a 10 USD Ruck.
Relatively cheap for a formed aluminum external, especially when you consider the company it's trying to compete against. You can find them cheaper, but for the money the 1606 is the way to go.

Decade old used Dana externals go for much more than that...

Also consider that the MR NICE was made to accommodate the ALICE pack, and those go for quite a bit more than the Bullpac.

Jeriah -

I've seen that frame, and it's very close but the plastic frame just doesn't "feel" as stout as the original Peak 1. I suppose that's to be expected with a 50$ external...

NXP

Ditto on the wallyworld wonder pack. The frame shown is much less than the original.... IT's OK for what it is, but reviews on other sites are less then... sterling.

As for the other vendors, If I am going to drop that kind of bread on a ruck, it won't be a $10 ALICE and a Cadillac frame. Nice to know tho that the ALICE ruck is still a player for some folks. I like cheap and rugged - lightweight would matter if I was still doing survey work.

THanks for the additional data/vendors.
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Re: They DO exist - Coleman Peak 1 frames mounting ALICE ruc

Post by Kutter_0311 » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:27 am

Modular may be all the rage these days, but ALICE still has what a lot of people need, and she's LIGHT.

Glad the Peak 1 and ALICE go well together, price-wise, too.

Older ain't outdated just cause it's older :wink:
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Re: They DO exist - Coleman Peak 1 frames mounting ALICE ruc

Post by AK_Stick » Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:14 am

No, its just out dated because there are much better packs available.


I'll never again carry an ALICE or that POS Molle ruck. I keep it only because I'm required to have it.


My Kifaru blows the Molle or ALICE out of the water.
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Re: They DO exist - Coleman Peak 1 frames mounting ALICE ruc

Post by huntingohio » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:45 pm

AK_Stick wrote:No, its just out dated because there are much better packs available.


I'll never again carry an ALICE or that POS Molle ruck. I keep it only because I'm required to have it.


My Kifaru blows the Molle or ALICE out of the water.
But my alice pack was 25 bucks frame and all at a gun show.... Jus sayin

I like the hellcat type ruck is there anyway to do it without the molle belt, i dont like the .mil look if i had to bug out

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Re: They DO exist - Coleman Peak 1 frames mounting ALICE ruc

Post by northernxposure » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:00 pm

huntingohio wrote:But my alice pack was 25 bucks frame and all at a gun show.... Jus sayin

I like the hellcat type ruck is there anyway to do it without the molle belt, i dont like the .mil look if i had to bug out
Any Kelty external belt kit should work with the Peak 1 frame. Shoulder straps are a little more complicated.

NXP

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