Thoughts on a "Bug-Out" Carbine

[TechPrepper]

Bugging out is a last resort for me as I'm sure it will be for most of you. That said, if the need should arise and I am limited to what I can carry on my person and on my back, certain compromises must be made.

Here are my thoughts on Choosing the Perfect “Bug-Out” Carbine. Any feedback would be most welcome.

Thanks.

[Dogan]

Quick question... is Oleg Volk the guy who did the Ashly-kickboxer (Short. Quiet. Packs a punch. Keltec something or other, same basic concept) ad for Kel-Tec?

[TacAir]

Bugging out is a last resort for me as I'm sure it will be for most of you. That said, if the need should arise and I am limited to what I can carry on my person and on my back, certain compromises must be made.

Here are my thoughts on Choosing the Perfect “Bug-Out” Carbine. Any feedback would be most welcome.

Thanks.

Why not post it here rather push ZS's to your site?

[Regular Guy]

In the picture with the three bullets, the one in the middle is a 6.5grendel, not 7.62x39mm.

Imho, the 6.5 is the cats collo.

[MacAttack]

I personally don't agree with a few of your ideas. This doesn't mean mine are better or yours worse I just don't agree thats all.


This website doesn't deal with the concept of "scavenging" very well. So expect some flap about that.


The idea that your going to be the only living human for hundreds of miles is the first idea I don't exactly agree with. That PAW scenario is the lowest on my list of possible scenarios.


The idea that its just going to be you and the 'lions and tigers and bears' and no zoo keepers will ever be around is a hard one for me to accept.
My idea is that there will be some sort of law enforcement agency out there and the idea that you "need" to reach out and touch the enemy is VERY close to needing to be sniper. And a sniper is just a terrorist/murderer in the eyes of the law. How can you claim to the law that you were 'defending' yourself from a gang of toughs at over 200+ meters away?

And then the idea of not having your carbine at hand all the time is another concept I can not agree with.
If you need it then you need it all the time and at hand. Not hidden in some backpack. At worst slung over your shoulder but not in a backpack that will take you minutes to get to.
Carbines are for combat. That's why solders don't put them in backpacks.

Any pistol caliber carbine to me is nothing more than a fancy sub machine gun and does the very same job. They are built for close confined areas. Buildings, caves and vehicles. Not open fields and jungles.

[TechPrepper]

Bugging out is a last resort for me as I'm sure it will be for most of you. That said, if the need should arise and I am limited to what I can carry on my person and on my back, certain compromises must be made.

Here are my thoughts on Choosing the Perfect “Bug-Out” Carbine. Any feedback would be most welcome.

Thanks.

Why not post it here rather push ZS's to your site?

I wasn't sure on the legality of posting images to the forum. Easier to link out instead. I reference where I use images that I don't own, but I don't know how to do that in the forum.

[Electricity]

Why not post it here rather push ZS's to your site?

I wasn't sure on the legality of posting images to the forum. Easier to link out instead. I reference where I use images that I don't own, but I don't know how to do that in the forum.

Seems like a flimsy excuse to push traffic to your site. You could have posted the whole thing, minus the support pictures, and not loose anything from the intended purpose.

[TechPrepper]

I personally don't agree with a few of your ideas. This doesn't mean mine are better or yours worse I just don't agree thats all.

No worries, I'm looking for feedback.

This website doesn't deal with the concept of "scavenging" very well. So expect some flap about that.

Agreed, the very idea of prepping is to avoid having to. But if my home is destroyed or I am otherwise forced to leave it suddenly I will do what I must to survive. It's not a popular sentiment I know, but an honest one I think.

The idea that your going to be the only living human for hundreds of miles is the first idea I don't exactly agree with. That PAW scenario is the lowest on my list of possible scenarios.

It is low on my list as well. But in the spirit of being prepared for anything its a scenario that I include just in case.

My idea is that there will be some sort of law enforcement agency out there and the idea that you "need" to reach out and touch the enemy is VERY close to needing to be sniper. And a sniper is just a terrorist/murderer in the eyes of the law. How can you claim to the law that you were 'defending' yourself from a gang of toughs at over 200+ meters away?

I truly hope that is the case and that some degree of law will always be present. But again, I feel better having the option just in case.

And then the idea of not having your carbine at hand all the time is another concept I can not agree with.
If you need it then you need it all the time and at hand. Not hidden in some backpack. At worst slung over your shoulder but not in a backpack that will take you minutes to get to. Carbines are for combat. That's why solders don't put them in backpacks.

Soldiers don't operate under the same legal restrictions that we do. Certainly if things were that bad, believe me, the carbine would not be in the backpack. That said, imagine that you are looking to bug-out to your BOL and you are somewhat "ahead" of the horde. You may have a very long distance to cover before you get there and hopefully you can drive most of the way. Somewhere along the way the SHTF and now you are on foot. You started out with the protection of the law ... but suddenly find yourself without. This is the reason why I think concealment is important.

Any pistol caliber carbine to me is nothing more than a fancy sub machine gun and does the very same job. They are built for close confined areas. Buildings, caves and vehicles. Not open fields and jungles.

For me it was an issue of having to choose between the lesser of evils. Weight/Size vs. Versatility and what I would want to have if the worst should happen. I'd rather have it and not need it rather than the other way around.

All great point however. You've given me much to think on. Thank you for the feedback!

[TechPrepper]

In the picture with the three bullets, the one in the middle is a 6.5grendel, not 7.62x39mm.

Imho, the 6.5 is the cats collo.

Wow. I can't recall where I got that image, but it just goes to show you ... never assume anything you read online is correct without verifying independently. I've not dealt much with the 7.62x39mm cartridge. I've always shot a friend's AK but never had one of my own. Thanks for the catch. I also now have another caliber to read up on!

[TechPrepper]

Seems like a flimsy excuse to push traffic to your site. You could have posted the whole thing, minus the support pictures, and not loose anything from the intended purpose.

I'm sorry you feel that way. It is none the less the reason. I'm very new to the forum, I appreciate your patience with me as I learn the correct etiquette for posting. I have real questions and I want to learn. I have no interest in spamming anyone.

[Regular Guy]

Pistol caliber carbines are pooped after 50m. So if you're going to have size/Weight of rifle, carry a rifle.
Scavenging is never ok. Laws are always in effect. Not being pointed but just saying.
ZS has ways and mores, commonly known was swaying and smores. Stick around, learn them and you'll find this is a very cool.site.

Btw, I like the look of your blog and welcome to ZS.

[TechPrepper]

Pistol caliber carbines are pooped after 50m. So if you're going to have size/Weight of rifle, carry a rifle.

Yup I agree wholeheartedly with that logic.

Scavenging is never ok. Laws are always in effect. Not being pointed but just saying.

I certainly hope to be sufficiently prepared for whatever may come and that my BOL, preps, training and caches will hold me in good stead. That said if all other options were exhausted and I was faced with the choice to scavenge or lay down and die, I'd be lying if I said I'd just give up. Please don't hold it against me. What I can honestly say, is that scavenging would be an absolute last resort for me ... I am a prepper after all

ZS has ways and mores, commonly known was swaying and smores. Stick around, learn them and you'll find this is a very cool.site.

I'm looking forward to it. There is a ton of great content here and I hope to contribute as much as consume.

Btw, I like the look of your blog and welcome to ZS.

Thanks! Constructive feedback is always welcome and I'm glad you like the blog template. I got it from WooThemes and they do some really great work.

[MacAttack]

And then the idea of not having your carbine at hand all the time is another concept I can not agree with.
If you need it then you need it all the time and at hand. Not hidden in some backpack. At worst slung over your shoulder but not in a backpack that will take you minutes to get to. Carbines are for combat. That's why solders don't put them in backpacks.

Soldiers don't operate under the same legal restrictions that we do. Certainly if things were that bad, believe me, the carbine would not be in the backpack. That said, imagine that you are looking to bug-out to your BOL and you are somewhat "ahead" of the horde. You may have a very long distance to cover before you get there and hopefully you can drive most of the way. Somewhere along the way the SHTF and now you are on foot. You started out with the protection of the law ... but suddenly find yourself without. This is the reason why I think concealment is important.

[/quote]


First off the law is ALWAYS around. Even in a PAW situation. It might not be present and staring you in the face today but when things get back to normal you will have to answer for shooting defenseless guys at 200+ meters. Its up to you to now prove they were a threat. And it will fall down to their word against yours and they will have the weight of the law on their side since your the one doing the shooting and running away.


And as for stashing your carbine inside your backpack. How is Florida law on the concealed carrying long arms? With the ammo in the gun or mags? Yours is only half concealed. Remember the law WILL come back eventually and witnesses will be around at all times. Its my understanding that long arms need locks when transporting them.


Having your carbine at hand has nothing to do with a solders legal restrictions. Its has everything to do with combat readiness.


And I hope you have the right to be on you BOL. Just running off to the woods is NOT the thing to do. Unless you own them.



Look around this website. Running off to the woods has been debated to death.

Lets just say I'm in the camp my of 'my home is my castle' and I'm not leaving until forced to. And that's by armed aggressors or mother nature. And in neither case will I be the first out of town. Or on foot if I have anything to do with it.

If you plan involves foot traffic first then you mine as well just move to your BOL now and be that much ahead of the game.

[KentsOkay]

Quick question... is Oleg Volk the guy who did the Ashly-kickboxer (Short. Quiet. Packs a punch. Keltec something or other, same basic concept) ad for Kel-Tec?

Ohh helll yeah. His work has contributed a lot to my screen saver

http://olegvolk.net/gallery/technology/arms/keltec/

You are welcome

[maldon007]

I certainly hope to be sufficiently prepared for whatever may come and that my BOL, preps, training and caches will hold me in good stead. That said if all other options were exhausted and I was faced with the choice to scavenge or lay down and die, I'd be lying if I said I'd just give up. Please don't hold it against me. What I can honestly say, is that scavenging would be an absolute last resort for me ... I am a prepper after all

The point people are making is, all but the VERY most unlikely scenarios of shtf, entail tons of unprepared survivors, all vying for the scraps of the destroyed civilization. So by the time you run out of preps, and need to scavenge, the scraps will be almost assuredly gone... Or still being scavenged, by people who are GOOD at it.

So learn farming, whatever, but if you want to prep for teotwawki, which is a very unlikely scenario... At least prep for the most likely of the very unlikely.

[TechPrepper]

I think we fundamentally see things differently which is fine. I respect your opinion and I honestly hope that you end up being right and I the wrong one.

First off the law is ALWAYS around. Even in a PAW situation. It might not be present and staring you in the face today but when things get back to normal you will have to answer for shooting defenseless guys at 200+ meters. Its up to you to now prove they were a threat. And it will fall down to their word against yours and they will have the weight of the law on their side since your the one doing the shooting and running away.

Please don't assume that I would shoot at someone at any distance on a whim. If the situation required it to defend myself and my family then the law (when and if it returned) be damned.

And as for stashing your carbine inside your backpack. How is Florida law on the concealed carrying long arms? With the ammo in the gun or mags? Yours is only half concealed. Remember the law WILL come back eventually and witnesses will be around at all times. Its my understanding that long arms need locks when transporting them.

The question of Florida law is a grey area when it comes to SBRs. That said, I wouldn't take the weapon out joy-riding. We are talking about bugging out. If I was truly in such a desperate situation, and it was necessary to have a carbine with me I would take reasonable measures to conceal it if I felt it was warranted ... but it wouldn't stop me from taking it along.

Having your carbine at hand has nothing to do with a solders legal restrictions. Its has everything to do with combat readiness.

Agreed. Did I give you a different impression?

And I hope you have the right to be on your BOL. Just running off to the woods is NOT the thing to do. Unless you own them.

I own my BOL and much of the woods around it.

Look around this website. Running off to the woods has been debated to death.

No need, this is obvious enough to me. Living off the land is not something I have the skills to do.

Lets just say I'm in the camp my of 'my home is my castle' and I'm not leaving until forced to. And that's by armed aggressors or mother nature. And in neither case will I be the first out of town. Or on foot if I have anything to do with it.

My friend, in this we agree 100%. In my mind the very definition of "bugging out" is an action to be taken only as a last resort. Unfortunately our BOL is a few hundred miles away and bugging out is a very likely plan "A" for this family.

If you plan involves foot traffic first then you mine as well just move to your BOL now and be that much ahead of the game.

I wish I could but alas that is not an option for me right now. We vacation at our BOL and use it as a cache. But a full on retreat it is not. We always have enough fuel on hand to reach our BOL via the back roads and have tested this theory every time we vacation there. I'm reasonably certain we will not have to walk. But what I plan for and what actually happens are very different things. I plan to be prepared to walk to safety if I have to.

Thanks for the spirited dialog. I hope you don't take my position as inflammatory. I've learned a lot today and you've given me much to think on.

Cheers.

[MacAttack]

A better idea in my opinion would be a separate bag for your long arm. Something nondescript, something that will hide in plain sight.
At least for when you hoofing it.
Something like a cheap guitar case with shoulder strap. http://www.guitarcenter.com/Musician-s- ... 1152214.gc (Make sure its and electric guitar bag so no one asks you to play it and it expected to be heavy.)

That way its not taking up good space inside your backpack, its totally hidden, you can get to it better than taking off the backpack, and no one is going to think twice about you when your told by the local police/national guard to get on the bus/army truck leaving town.


I for one would not want to walk through someplace like Miami after the buzzards are flying. Having a noticeable firearm is just asking for gang trouble.

[TechPrepper]

A better idea in my opinion would be a separate bag for your long arm. Something nondescript, something that will hide in plain sight.
At least for when you hoofing it.
Something like a cheap guitar case with shoulder strap. http://www.guitarcenter.com/Musician-s- ... 1152214.gc (Make sure its and electric guitar bag so no one asks you to play it and it expected to be heavy.)

Brilliant! A padded guitar case really would be an ideal in shape as well. Thanks for the suggestion!

[MacAttack]

I actually think I got that idea from this web sight some were.

Just make sure your guitar case is a zippered soft sided one.
So you can rig up some type of strap system inside and then just unzip a hand sized hole in the bottom. That way if you need to get it rocking quick just zip, reach in and your ready to give unaimed suppressive fire right through the bag.
Hard cases don't have zippers so you then need to rig up some type of quick opening door that's relatively secure in case of inspections or bumps and bangs.

[J.C.]

Bugging out is not going to war. There are a lot of us here who seem to be prepped for combat, but it isn't an important bug-out consideration at all. If you are on foot carrying 20+ lbs of rifle, ammo and other tactical gear is going to slow you down and reduce capacity to carry things that are likely to be helpful. If you want to play soldier that's fine but try and be realistic when you are talking about initial firearms prep.

[Grey Mann]

Techprepper: I know we all have our limits, so maybe it's just best to come out and say it clearly...on ZS, discussion of illegal activities and otherwise breaking the law is forbidden. Period. None of us need to discuss with each other what we're prepared to do once pushed past certain points; we're here to discuss everything we can do and prepare for before ever reaching those points.

A thought: bugging out on foot with a full-size guitar case? That doesn't sound slightly suspicious to you all? If you're on foot with anything more than a non-mil backpack, you're going to be standing out in the herds of soon-to-be refugees. It would be better to carry openly and have quick access than to conceal unsuccessfully and only be slowed in the process of readying yourself should you need your weapon.

[bluesquid]

Is it cool If i start a blog, fill it with ads for products people here may like, and put a linky in this forum? I could use the extra cash!

prob not kosher. i will just stick with my "ZS" patch, balloon, fleece vest, and coaster company. Will pan at some point.

all that goofyness aside,considering you live in south west florida, your blog should have a few articles on water filtration, retention, hydration, water filter reviews, etc. At least a link to buy some of that equipment.


I lived in Sarasota Fl. In a SHTF scenario down there, your gonna need insect repellant and a source of water more than a carbine.

[strm_trpr]

Being an LEO the possibility that I would be allowed to bug out would be very low, I would more than likely be called in to work. That being said if I had to bug out I would have 3 weapons on me. Pistol (glock23), Ar-15 16 inch barrel and mossberg 500 in a scabbard on the backpack. I would pick my 16 inch ar over a SBR because the 5.56mm round needs a longer barrel with enough twists to get velocity. a 10.5" SBR with a 5.56 mm round would not have optimum velocity out past 50 yards and may also keyhole.

[TechPrepper]

Techprepper: I know we all have our limits, so maybe it's just best to come out and say it clearly...on ZS, discussion of illegal activities and otherwise breaking the law is forbidden. Period. None of us need to discuss with each other what we're prepared to do once pushed past certain points; we're here to discuss everything we can do and prepare for before ever reaching those points.

Fair enough.

A thought: bugging out on foot with a full-size guitar case? That doesn't sound slightly suspicious to you all? If you're on foot with anything more than a non-mil backpack, you're going to be standing out in the herds of soon-to-be refugees. It would be better to carry openly and have quick access than to conceal unsuccessfully and only be slowed in the process of readying yourself should you need your weapon.

It would certainly look odd I'll give you that. An interesting area to explore would be how to "blend in" if you found yourself having to bug-out and didn't want to appear more prepared than others. I'll being thinking a lot on that one. Thanks for the feedback.