Zombie Black Holes

[NecroDavid]

Hi Folks!

I am copying a bit of my introduction from the "Introduction Forum" so please excuse me for the repetition if you've already read that and said "hello" over there.

My name is David and I'm a zombie scientist, or, more properly, I am a "Necropologist" a scientist who studies the undead. Granted, we don't have many live (undead) specimens to examine, however, we DO have many notions about them to examine...we bring a scientific approach and a sense of humor to the subject.

My brother (Bob) and I are both credentialed scientists and researchers. We have worked in the fields of Criminology, Anthropology, Archaeology and Neuroscience - as well as being extensively trained and published in the field of Physics. (Yeah, I know, varied list - but we're eager beavers.) We are GIVING ALL THAT UP to pursue our true love.... NECROPOLOGY. ZOMBIES!!!!!

We have recently published an article on The Physics of Zombies in several locations and will (hopefully) be bringing the discussion to this site. As mentioned, I will be posting about that over in another folder. For now, let's just say HI to all here and we want to let you know we LOVE what you're doing here. We too have long believed that zombies and an undead apocalypse are EXCELLENT organizing principles for disaster preparedness. If you can take on the horde, you can take on anything!

So, HI FOLKS! We're here....... and now, for our paper:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/57439058/The-Physics-of-Zombies-Madore%E2%80%99s-Rules-of-Zombie-Cohesion-Zombie-Cells-and-Super-Cells-Zombie-Black-Holes-Zombie-Cell-Stress-Fission-and-Zombie-Qui

Sorry for the archaic and long URL link there, the actual title of the paper is:

The Physics of Zombies: Madore’s Rules of Zombie Cohesion, Zombie Cells andSuper Cells, Zombie Black Holes, Zombie Cell Stress-Fission and Zombie Quirks

Abstract: Madore’s Rule of Zombie Cohesion states that zombie cells will form as a result of zombie food/prey alert signals that create a zombie cohesive field that attracts zombies.It is our contention that once such cells form, they may continue to grow into zombiesuper cells unless acted upon by either attrition (due to acts, obstacles and nature) or splitduring zombie cell stress-fission into smaller cells. A zombie super cell may eventuallyform a zombie black hole and all free-roaming zombies capable of reacting to a zombiealert signal may be absorbed into said zombie black hole. We must prepare.


So, that's the paper. We're open to discussion.

For those not inclined to click a link and read a math filled paper, let me say this - you do so at your own risk!

You can skip all the math in the paper if you'd like - just as long as you most definitely read the "Thought Experiments" and especially the "GLASS BOX" example!

The main thrust of the paper is that current thinking on how zombies will act and organize is wrong. We present a new notion of how zombies will be attracted to one another, prey and shelters. IF you think you already have "the perfect plan' you might want to consider that if you're in the wrong place, with the wrong conditions (or the right ones if you're a zombie) you could potentially be facing a horde that is not tens, hundreds or even thousands strong... but MILLIONS.

You might be in the middle of a ZOMBIE BLACK HOLE!

If you don't understand what causes them you can't prepare for them.

So, I think this is the appropriate folder. Planning and preparation.

Oh, and, we're super interested in any of the creative ways a zombie black hole might be used against the undead. Like, say, creating one through signalling and pushing the Zomb's into a canyon or other "kill spot." This is a work in progress and we appreciate the time and energy you'll spend on this....

With that said, thank you for having us here and we look forward to the discussion!

Sincerely,

Dave and Bob

[Fenris]

Mods, figure this should be in Zombie Biology?

-fenris-

[NecroDavid]

Well, it's not about zombie biology per se.

It's about the organization that zombies will follow when they're massing. You can't prepare if you don't know what they're going to do... and the laws that affect the forces you're preparing against.

How can one discuss preparation for a zombie apocalypse if you're unaware of how the forces you're facing will be arranged and act?

[NecroDavid]

But, if it's moved, so be it... it's your ball field.

EDIT: Turns out in my haste I posted my post on the soccer field, I was confused, I thought I was on the "football field" - which is a funny way of saying yes, the move was correct.

[Vel454]

O.o

[NecroDavid]

.

[Grey Mann]

^A mod will move the thread wherever applicable. Duplicate posts tend to annoy members/mods.

[NecroDavid]

Soooo... now that it's in its new folder, any questions?

Like "How can I set up a zombie black hole over a specific location to eradicate my local zombie plague?" Or, "How can I use the false-signal automata in the paper to lure zombies away from my true shelter?"

Or, counter points from those that don't believe the basic thrust of the paper? For example, those that believe that zombies WON'T end up chasing their own tail?

Surely the paper can't be sooooo persuasive that no one has any objections?

We're here, ask away....

~David

[AUA]

I hit most of the major points in the paper, and I have to say, this is a very authoritative work on projecting zombie-behavior with regard to external stimuli.

The title was a bit misleading, at least at face value; the assumption is that the reader knows that a 'cell' can mean "collection of units", or that 'black hole' refers to the trend of zombies being sent into a loop and not an actual, physical event (wouldn't that be scary?). Then again, that's why you guys have the jobs you have, because you can read into it either way.

If I understand it right, the title as defined by an average joe's approximation could be: "...Cohesion of zombies on the move, Formation of zombie 'cells' and 'supercells', Creation of 'black hole' zombie convergence events, Dispersion of zombie cells, and Explanation of abnormal zombie movement behavior."

Right?


Here's a question. Let's say that you're outside, in a naturally echoic environment, i.e. in a densely urban area with primarily concrete/glass/otherwise solid surfaces. When inside of a building, the sound is self-limited because of the walls bouncing the sound within the building itself and into absorbent and/or dilutive areas like furniture, hallways, and so on.

Wouldn't that mean that the zombies would be naturally prone to forming cells/supercells/black holes outside, but that they would be bottlenecked the further one travels inside, because the sound cannot carry from inside to outside, where the majority of zombies are?

[NecroDavid]

I hit most of the major points in the paper, and I have to say, this is a very authoritative work on projecting zombie-behavior with regard to external stimuli.

The title was a bit misleading, at least at face value; the assumption is that the reader knows that a 'cell' can mean "collection of units", or that 'black hole' refers to the trend of zombies being sent into a loop and not an actual, physical event (wouldn't that be scary?). Then again, that's why you guys have the jobs you have, because you can read into it either way.

If I understand it right, the title as defined by an average joe's approximation could be: "...Cohesion of zombies on the move, Formation of zombie 'cells' and 'supercells', Creation of 'black hole' zombie convergence events, Dispersion of zombie cells, and Explanation of abnormal zombie movement behavior."

Right?

First off, thanks! Secondly, right! That's something we're starting to get feedback on and you've hit the nail on the head - our use of the word "cell" - we use it more in the weather sense. This was probably influenced by me getting hit with a lot of tornadoes in the area while crafting the paper. We've had the idea for a looong time and finally sat down and wrote it out during a particularly active local tornado period. So, "cells", "super cells" and whatnot were on my mind.

You've written an accurate translation of the title, for sure. We're going to be starting "The Journal of American Necropology" over the next year, you're in line for one of the reviewer jobs! Heheheheheh In any event, that's a solid grasp of the thing!

Here's a question. Let's say that you're outside, in a naturally echoic environment, i.e. in a densely urban area with primarily concrete/glass/otherwise solid surfaces. When inside of a building, the sound is self-limited because of the walls bouncing the sound within the building itself and into absorbent and/or dilutive areas like furniture, hallways, and so on.

Wouldn't that mean that the zombies would be naturally prone to forming cells/supercells/black holes outside, but that they would be bottlenecked the further one travels inside, because the sound cannot carry from inside to outside, where the majority of zombies are?

Wow! Okay, let me digest that....

Outside in an urban setting. Check. Sound bouncing around. Check. Zombies being pulled to and fro. Check. Straight up "chaos cloud" outside.

Inside, sound being absorbed. Check. Sound is limited to small areas - this would assume both the sounds of a survivor and zombies being contained - and creating bottlenecks?

Hmm... digesting....

Okay, here's my take on it. We think that the parts would resemble the whole. So, even though outside you have *obvious* cells, super cells and black holes being inside doesn't stop zombie convergence behavior (I'm borrowing your "convergence" here, I like it!). While inside, the zombies simply have a smaller population to draw from while still following the same organizational rules laid out in the paper.

What you've come up with is a way of dividing the problem. Inside you have a "microcosm" or a "micro-environment" and the same rules as outside would apply inside.

Thus, you still have Madore's Rule of Cohesion - except the susceptible population is smaller/limited - "inside cells" would form and yes, you'd have bottlenecks.

So, we'd say that zombies are STILL naturally prone to forming cells, super cells and black holes even inside. However, they don't have the population to form MASSIVE cells and super cells and black holes, rather, they'd form whatever type of cells/super cell/hole that they could dependent on signals and population to draw from. In other words, they're still following all the rules laid out in the paper, they stay "cohesion prone zombies" they'd just be short on zombies to become the larger formations.

So, say you're in a loooooooong cave... and the cave entrance is closed. Inside are a hundred or so zombies and natural sound dampeners that limit all the noise inside the cave to staying inside the cave.

Now, you simply have a "local model" to follow. If the zombies inside the cave receive no "prey alert signals" they'll wander the cave like a "chaos cloud." If they receive multiple prey alert signals, you'll have diffuse cells.... and you can see where this is going... a single prey alert signal could, potentially, create a localized "black hole" inside the cave. Multiple prey alert signals and you have chaos still - OR - multiple black hole situations inside the cave.

That's a model of "inside but large population", let's shrink it down:

Suppose a zombie was trapped inside a closet in a small home. He's pounding away on the door, but it's muffled and upstairs Another zombie wanders into the house and wanders upstairs. He hears the pounding, moves to the door and starts pounding on it. Now you have two zombies giving each other a "false signal automata" scenario... you'd have your bottleneck. They'd pound back at each other. Add more zombies and you have a mini-"glass box" INSIDE - a box within a box.

Heck, if YOU are inside that closet and your pounding brings the zombies - they're going to be acting the exactly the same as if they're outside. Cells will be lining up inside.

So, I think, in essence, weirdly, that INSIDE you're more likely to deal with cells, super cells, black holes, because signals are more focused - there's LESS "noise" and zombies can focus on "single signal sources" and are thus *more* likely to form a black hole. You just have less of them to eradicate inside. Outside, you're more likely to deal with chaos clouds (due to more signals from more directions).

In sum, inside or outside, they're going to follow the same "rule of cohesion" - it's a matter of having fewer signal sources to follow. You're MORE likely to have to deal with cohesion inside than out.

So, strategy? ANY place that's QUIET is the key.

Sound proofing is the absolute FIRST thing that must be taken care of in any zombie shelter. Visual proofing is next.

You can fool a zombie with a blanket thrown over your head as long as you don't move and are absolutely silent.....

Inside in a super quiet place is the place to be. Outside, silently on the move during a chaos cloud works too.

A loud, attractive, place is a death trap! You won't have tens, you won't have hundreds, eventually you'll have every zombie who can hear, see and travel at your door.

Thanks for the thinking, great job. Methinks that another paper is forming... "local cells" - it'll be a short one.

- David

[AUA]

Ah, so inside, the pinpoint, greatly-reduced echo inside would actually lead to zombies having a natural affinity to come together and form these 'cells'?

What about weapon usage? I'd imagine that most survivors are thinking in terms of firearms, but even a silenced gun can make as much noise as a completely unsilenced air gun (if you don't have a frame of reference for this, one of those Crosman 760 pellet/BB guns that you pump up, on about 4-to-5 pumps would be about right).

Assuming that a smart survivor would avoid combat at all costs anyway, if it couldn't be helped, what sort of strategy could be used to avoid cell formation near this hypothetical survivor? Since the sound from a weapon discharge is directed forward from the weapon, wouldn't that lead to easy location by a horde?

[NecroDavid]

Ah, so inside, the pinpoint, greatly-reduced echo inside would actually lead to zombies having a natural affinity to come together and form these 'cells'?

What about weapon usage? I'd imagine that most survivors are thinking in terms of firearms, but even a silenced gun can make as much noise as a completely unsilenced air gun (if you don't have a frame of reference for this, one of those Crosman 760 pellet/BB guns that you pump up, on about 4-to-5 pumps would be about right).

Assuming that a smart survivor would avoid combat at all costs anyway, if it couldn't be helped, what sort of strategy could be used to avoid cell formation near this hypothetical survivor? Since the sound from a weapon discharge is directed forward from the weapon, wouldn't that lead to easy location by a horde?

Short answer: Yep

Long answer: Let me think about it a moment. Hmmmm...

Okay, outside, we're assuming it's "game on" - full blown infection. We're in the chaos cloud stage. Lots of zombies, lots of prey, lots of fighting, running, screaming, etc. The zombies are being pulled to and fro' and there's a lot of competition for their attention. Any particular gunshot is competing with all other noise for zombie attention.

Okay, inside, every noise has less competition for attention. There are fewer zombies, fewer prey and just to put it simply, you're the center of attention if you're making noise inside. The center of attention of the zombies inside (AND - the center of attention for the zombies outside if the zombies outside can hear you.)

Okay, now, I'm going to make a joke here.... I've had some heated arguments on this already.... but.... the best weapon to fire at a zombie during a chaos cloud is the one the guy is firing down the street that's drawing all the zombie's attention away from YOU! A joke, but true.

You should avoid ANYTHING that makes noise and will let a zombie know you even exist. Gun, blender, car stereo, heavy breathing, just anything.

So, if you have access to a silenced weapon, use it over anything else that's louder. If you have a super silent weapon, like a bow/crossbow, use THAT. If you can swing a sword silently, and make a kill silently, use THAT.

"ZCF" (zombie cohesion force) from the paper relies on noise or sight for the prey alert signal. So, silence is to be chosen over noise if you can.

Here's the thing that we find fascinating about the paper is that typical survival strategies we've seen (just blasting away, having a fortified place, etc.) all pale in comparison to being quiet and not fighting. IF you find you must dispatch a zombie, do it as quietly as you can. A trap door, outside your place, that drops him into a sound-proofed pit where you can deal with them quietly is better than a .50 cal. hammering away and shredding them...

However, once a cell forms you have to figure out if you can dispatch the entire cell BEFORE it can be reinforced and become resonant... if not, you've set up a conveyor belt of zombies to your door. It's not going to be just those zombies long - you'll have a black hole consisting of all the zombies that see or hear that cell trying to get at you... they don't tire and they don't stop.

So, essentially, you'd have to make judgement calls:

Is this weapon quiet?
Will it dispatch them quietly?
How far will the sound travel?
Can I take out all zombies in the area before the others that arrive from the sound of the weapon alert upon my location? <-- this is important, more may arrive, but if they don't have a continual "prey alert signal" to tell them what to do/where to "look" they may come running and find nothing to fixate upon if all the other zombies are now stiffs on the ground.

I think that last bit answers your question, if not, let me know.....

~David

[lailr]

The one thing I wonder, I live in the country, and hearing shots is not an uncommon occurence....A single shot would seem extremley hard to pin-point anything but a general direction, so you could get away with that right?

[AUA]

The last bit does answer my question, and it more or less affirms my current strategy with zombie combat; "If you don't have enough ammunition to not only clear your entire neighborhood, but your entire town/city, metropolitan area, county, district, AND state/province, don't try to meet them head-on in combat." Even if you had all of that ammunition and/or were a martial arts master, one day, you might find yourself just a little bit off your game, and then..

It only takes a single encounter, a single mistake, for you to lose everything. Whereas if you avoid them at all costs, well, no encounter means that you risk nothing, because you didn't come into contact with any zombies to die from.

lailr does bring up a good point. In the country, sounds travel very far, but their location is ambiguous; the zombies would only have a general bearing. Of course, that could still lead them to find you, assuming that they don't have anything else to do and that they could remember to keep moving in that direction.

[NecroDavid]

The one thing I wonder, I live in the country, and hearing shots is not an uncommon occurence....A single shot would seem extremley hard to pin-point anything but a general direction, so you could get away with that right?

I know what you mean about country living, there's a shot or two most days and on Friday nights a lot of guys cut loose, they'll empty a clip when the sun goes down. The 4th of July is always fun because that's when you learn who has heavy ordnance in the neighborhood.

So, anyhow, about a single shot... hmmm...

There are a load of factors to consider when judging that single shot as helpful or hurtful. I think the biggest would be, how close is the next zombie besides the one you're shooting at? IF they hear it and move closer, at all, in your general direction, you've somewhat defeated the purpose of shooting the first zombie, right?

I mean, the goal would be to not pull ANY zombies closer, even in your general direction.

So, if you have a zombie in your yard and he looks like he's going to stay awhile you just might want to - IF - the next zombie or any other potential zombie is too far to hear it.

You need to recon before you take the shot and ask: Is this the only one? Is it the lead one in a group that is randomly wandering your area? How far is the next one? What's he/she up to? Wandering too?

Could you *wait* to take the shot? Is it an imminent threat? Can you wait for a thunderstorm so the shot has noise cover? A super windy day maybe?

I'm with you in general though. Assume it's a single zombie. You've reconned the area many times, maybe even have line of sight around a valley or something and you know there aren't any more.... and you're going to brain drain this dude with your shot... AND you have cover... and.... well..... yeah, take the shot.

Country living has its advantages in there being low population counts to start, easier ways to "live off the land" and all that, but, you know what? It's sort of like the problem that AUA posted - being inside.

In a weird way, your NOISE is much more exposed in the country, especially artificial noises like engines, gun shots, well pumps, tractors and all that. You know what I'm talking about, we're in the same general area. If you go "true country" and you've been out there for a while, suddenly you can hear a 4x4 tearing down a dirt road from MILES away. It's singled out and stands out against the natural (quiet) noise background.

So, it's not just the gunshot that needs to be covered to keep the zombies away - it's ALL domestic noise. Washing dishes, drawing water, chopping wood ... those ALL become dangerous noise producing activities.

So, the COUNTRY is quiet, are you?

So, two edged sword - that "single shot" you're wondering about is going to be vague as to direction, but it's going to stand out against the quiet background. Might just be the thing that starts them moving towards you....

Hmmmmm... I'm having a hard time thinking of a place that provides cover noise for living, yet, itself is not then inhabited by curious zombies drawn to noise! Geez.

Humans are noisy beasts.

~David

[NecroDavid]

The last bit does answer my question, and it more or less affirms my current strategy with zombie combat; "If you don't have enough ammunition to not only clear your entire neighborhood, but your entire town/city, metropolitan area, county, district, AND state/province, don't try to meet them head-on in combat." Even if you had all of that ammunition and/or were a martial arts master, one day, you might find yourself just a little bit off your game, and then..

It only takes a single encounter, a single mistake, for you to lose everything. Whereas if you avoid them at all costs, well, no encounter means that you risk nothing, because you didn't come into contact with any zombies to die from.

lailr does bring up a good point. In the country, sounds travel very far, but their location is ambiguous; the zombies would only have a general bearing. Of course, that could still lead them to find you, assuming that they don't have anything else to do and that they could remember to keep moving in that direction.

AUA, damn, I should have read your post thoroughly before I just made that last one to lailr!

You've hit the nail on the head!

You wrote: >>If you don't have enough ammunition to not only clear your entire neighborhood, but your entire town/city, metropolitan area, county, district, AND state/province, don't try to meet them head-on in combat.<<

That, right there, gave me chills. Real ones. Still have them as I type....

That's the implication of the paper. You start shooting and you have a freakin' zombie black hole right at your door. You're not just shooting at ONE of them, you're shooting at ALL of the ones that are going to come.

It's like a damn virus. You CANNOT leave a single bit of it in your system. You must cleanse the whole operating area - and the area that's created by the NOISE of the clearing - which will itself keep expanding as you cleanse.

The good news? (And I'm being forced by this discussion to at least try to think of good news.) Umm, the good news is that maybe if there's an intense black hole nearby that you can live relatively unmolested if you just stay away from it? So, maybe you could set one up and it acts like fly paper? I don't know, that's like playing with fire - you lure them to a spot, keep them there, hope the signal becomes self-resonant and.... umm... someone flies by and strafes them???? Napalm?

You know what? I just thought of something!

You know what should be in every zombie survival pack? NOISE MAKERS! Something to throw down behind you, maybe drop in a hole, throw in a closet of a house as you run out the back.... like, a tape recorder? A recording of their prey alert signal?

Scenario: You get chased down the street, duck into a house, zombies chasing you up the porch and into the house.... you scoot through rooms.... put the zap on a few of them.... and as you leap into the bathroom, slam the door behind you, and before you crawl out the window you close the shower curtain and chuck in a "noisy" (which is what I'm calling them NOW) and bolt!

Noise makers are going to be for zombies what having a can of black pepper (or red pepper) in your back pocket is to blood hounds. (Cool Hand Luke reference.)

So, any repetitive human noise maker is going to be essential when travelling.

Hmmm... can't really think of anything besides recording devices that would fit the bill at the moment....

Anyhooo, excellent questions and considerations y'all.

~David

[maldon007]

Didnt read the paper yet, but I will... Quick though, in your zr (zombie reality), will zombies who did NOT hear/see/smell a given stimulus, follow others who may be a little closer/have better hearing/have eyes that have not been poked out by the rib bones of some victim?

That is, given the ones who didn't hear/see it, actually notice the others who did, moving off with purpose. I guess it's purely a question of how logic you assume is left working in their rotting brains.

[NecroDavid]

Didnt read the paper yet, but I will... Quick though, in your zr (zombie reality), will zombies who did NOT hear/see/smell a given stimulus, follow others who may be a little closer/have better hearing/have eyes that have not been poked out by the rib bones of some victim?

That is, given the ones who didn't hear/see it, actually notice the others who did, moving off with purpose. I guess it's purely a question of how logic you assume is left working in their rotting brains.

Ahh... great question! It's covered in the paper, we call those that don't have hearing/seeing senses "Quirks", zombie quirks (it's a physics joke about real world quirks).

We're assuming that they're at least tactile - they can feel things like contact with a person or a zombie - they can touch things. So, it's possible, that they could pick up on a zombie frenzy and react like the other zombies.... or be grabbing at them in the mistaken belief that they're grabbing regular prey and be drawn into the pack. If they don't keep their hold though, they're going to fall off from the crowd. Likewise, should a "quirk" come in contact with a zombie black hole, they could end up staying sort of like a drunk dude being thrown around in a mosh pit. (Punk reference.)

The other thing is... even if a zombie who has ALL their senses (zombie eyes, ears, etc) sees another zombie that is acting like HE saw prey... that zombie too will be attracted, even if he doesn't himself see the prey the second zombie is alerting upon. Group think.

So, it's not necessary for ANY particular zombie to see/react to the stimulus, as long as one of them does.

So, sure, in any large mass of zombies, you're going to have a few without eyes, ears, whatnot, that are only there because "there's something going on" and they're grabbing away at what they think is prey - even if it's just other zombies.

~David

[maldon007]

Another wonder I have had, zombies in buildings... Especially in cities where you might be in very stronly built structures, can they/will they get out? In sufficient numbers to make these black holes?

Point being, sure zombies will try and try to get into a structure if there is stimulus to keep them there, thinking food is close... But zeds that have been turned inside a building, probably even inside barricaded rooms, etc. Would they have stimulus/ingenuity to got out?

My thinking is, when the people holed up in a building are living, they do everything they can to keep the zeds out & unaware of their location... Blocades, boarded windows, sound dampeneing, blocked passages, etc.

So a fairly common scenaro would probably be, somehow infection gets in... One person hid a bite, one zombie gets in & bites a couple of people before being dispatched, zombie juice on some ones Mechanix glove contaminates the twinkies, etc.

So in cases like this (which might be quite common with a decent % of the population) you have people changing into zeds, inside a closed & more/less locked area... With little chance of being stimulated by zeds/people outside, at least not for an extended period (that might be needed to break out)... Wouldnt they most likely just walk around inside and bounce off the walls?

Thoughts?

[whisk.e.rebellion]

Yay, an expert in Zombie Biology!

[NecroDavid]

Another wonder I have had, zombies in buildings... Especially in cities where you might be in very stronly built structures, can they/will they get out? In sufficient numbers to make these black holes?

Point being, sure zombies will try and try to get into a structure if there is stimulus to keep them there, thinking food is close... But zeds that have been turned inside a building, probably even inside barricaded rooms, etc. Would they have stimulus/ingenuity to got out?

My thinking is, when the people holed up in a building are living, they do everything they can to keep the zeds out & unaware of their location... Blocades, boarded windows, sound dampeneing, blocked passages, etc.

So a fairly common scenaro would probably be, somehow infection gets in... One person hid a bite, one zombie gets in & bites a couple of people before being dispatched, zombie juice on some ones Mechanix glove contaminates the twinkies, etc.

So in cases like this (which might be quite common with a decent % of the population) you have people changing into zeds, inside a closed & more/less locked area... With little chance of being stimulated by zeds/people outside, at least not for an extended period (that might be needed to break out)... Wouldnt they most likely just walk around inside and bounce off the walls?

Thoughts?

First, a clarification, if it's not in the paper and we don't have a theory about the idea we're with you - we're all on even footing. While we (my brother and I, the co-authors) pride ourselves on our Necropology work and "smarts" we haven't thought of everything ... just a lot of things! We're excited by the discussion here, it's great to have our paper out and under scrutiny by like-minded people such as the folks here at zombiehunters.org (thanks for the welcome whisk.e.rebellion!).

So, let's see...

Can a zombie get out of a locked room? Yes, but it may take a hell of a lot of time! I think a zombie in a normal room has a certain percentage to get out, eventually. Depends on the room, doesn't it? If it's a "normal" room, one with windows and doors and whatnot... there's always a percentage chance they'll smash a window, the door could open, etc. I think the chance goes up largely based on how many windows there are and what kinds of handles are on the door. The kind of handles that are like hooks or bars would be obviously more easy to open by chance than smooth knob types. Windows, well, they're the lynch pin to this... flimsy windows, big windows, bay windows, all that increase the chance.

Basically, just imagine yourself pretty drunk! Now stumble around the room, with no regard to pain, and how long would take for you to get out without trying the knob? Never or forever? Eventually? Now have someone you absolutely HATE pass the window - BOOM - you're going right through it!

Now, if as you suggested, the room is barricaded? Make it a heck of a lot harder for that zombie to RANDOMLY get out.

Your second part of your question is a bit harder to answer.... could zombies trapped inside structures get out in sufficient numbers to cause a population large enough to create a black hole? That's super dependent on the numbers trapped in any particular location and how the first zombie gets out of that building.

Imagine a hundred zombies in a dept. store. They're locked inside. However...... there's say twenty milling about in the lobby and a couple lean against, or walk into a window and the window falls out! Okay, now you no longer have a "locked building" - you have a building with a great big hole in it - all the inside zombies just had their odds of improved for wandering out. So, now you have a hundred or so zombies wandering around - the perfect conditions for a cell, a super cell or a black hole!

However, if you have a zombie here or a zombie there inside multiple buildings spread across a city, the odds are that they'll get out in small numbers (ones and twos) at a time and... well... that's not really a black hole situation!

So, you're right, if they're inside a building, locked in, no stimulus, they're going to be "bouncers" or maybe even just stand still. They're waiting for luck to get them out - a chance bounce against the right spot and they're out. If the room is sturdy, that's going to take a hell of a loooooooooooooooooooong time!

BTW, the "mechanix gloves" and the Twinkies is just terrible and hits too close to home - I wore one this week and ate the other just today! Too close to home! Heheheh

Oh, one last thing..... ONE zombie can *start* a black hole. It just takes more than one for the signal to become resonant.

So, there's really NO predicting where one will start. While cities and high population centers are the obvious places for there to be one (or several) black holes, there's no reason for there not to be one out in the middle of nowhere! Here's a scenario:

Location: Abandoned Hydropower station, East Cupcake Ontario, Canada
Starting Zombie: One
Reason for zombie prey alert signal: The wandering zombie came close to the structure, heard a rhythmic pounding (one of the bearings on a dynamo is burning out and the thing is banging away)

The zombie is the first zombie to wander into the area after the plague. He hears the pounding, comes to the door and starts banging back, trying to get in... he sets up a "prey alert signal" and stays there.... say this goes on for months.... then another one wanders by... sees the first one and joins in....

Keep repeating that for months and months, or even years. As in the paper, the dynamo's banging can stop and the zombies will still stay in place, trying to get in, as long as there are enough zombies to start a resonant signal. So, this place could be a zombie black hole, in the middle of nowhere and without a single human having been the bait/goal. As long as the first zombie THOUGHT there was a human, and more joined to take up the signal, this place could turn into a black hole.

So, the bad news? They can start anywhere and they can start with a single zombie - as long as that zombie puts out a signal and is joined, it's all she wrote!

The good news? You might be nowhere near a black hole and your area should be getting LESS filled with zombies all the time as the black holes develop. The only thing you need worry about is that black hole ending - or shifting - for some unknown reason and all those zombies coming to YOUR area on a chase after prey. OR, zombie "quirks" wandering by.

Yeah, I guess that's good news? If you're not in the middle of a black hole, the zombies in your area should eventually be sucked into one.... making it someone else's mess!

~David

[maldon007]

If you check our fiction section here, you might find similar ideas to the black hole... Not exactly, but similar. And one I can think of (Mom's journal, to be specific) describes massive hordes which are more/less mobile black holes, slowly moving from coast to coast across the state of Fl, destroying most everything in their path.

I cant remember if the coriolis effect... or the moon's pull... or maybe more like your idea, some phantom stimulus was the cause, but it seemed to make sense in the story


Anyway, from that story I thought another detail might be added to your idea... One that could actually make your "black hole" even more like it's namesake.

The idea was, that the pressure of the thousands of zeds, all pushing one direction (in the case of the story, it was against a solid fortress wall) actually caused the very most forward zeds to get squashed into a putty-like zombie paste. I would think this might be the case with super massive z-black holes as well. The ones in the center might be smashed if the surrounding zeds were numerous enough. If you look at crowd disasters, like crushing deaths at soccer games & concerts, it would maybe take 1,000,000 or so to start the effect... Though zeds are harder to "kill", so maybe double or tripple it. Anyway, props to Kathy in FL for these ideas!

[NecroDavid]

If you check our fiction section here, you might find similar ideas to the black hole... Not exactly, but similar. And one I can think of (Mom's journal, to be specific) describes massive hordes which are more/less mobile black holes, slowly moving from coast to coast across the state of Fl, destroying most everything in their path.

I cant remember if the coriolis effect... or the moon's pull... or maybe more like your idea, some phantom stimulus was the cause, but it seemed to make sense in the story


Anyway, from that story I thought another detail might be added to your idea... One that could actually make your "black hole" even more like it's namesake.

The idea was, that the pressure of the thousands of zeds, all pushing one direction (in the case of the story, it was against a solid fortress wall) actually caused the very most forward zeds to get squashed into a putty-like zombie paste. I would think this might be the case with super massive z-black holes as well. The ones in the center might be smashed if the surrounding zeds were numerous enough. If you look at crowd disasters, like crushing deaths at soccer games & concerts, it would maybe take 1,000,000 or so to start the effect... Though zeds are harder to "kill", so maybe double or tripple it. Anyway, props to Kathy in FL for these ideas!

We have something like that in the paper, even if it's used jokingly - the "singularity." In a normal, real world black hole the center contains a singularity, which is mass that's condensed down to a single point in space - crushed down by gravity. The zombie singularity would be the same thing.... more or less what you're talking about with the zombies in the center or at the focus ever moving in... a constricting band. Whether or not that constriction causes them to actually be destroyed is a bit beyond our thinking at this point, but definitely worth considering! Thanks!

~David

[Belgerith]

This is some interesting stuff, and I love it. This is the kind of stuff that could make fiction that is written or movies filmed a bit more realistic and terrible. Although one thing I thought of with a black hole is in the book World War Z. They mention chains of zombies, effectively that self propagating chain that keeps going outward. As one zombie is stimulated, it would moan and attract others to it, in turn those would moan pulling in others as well. In the book the Army uses this to draw in thousands to kill them. Now, using that type of effect one could do many things that could benefit yourself.

One could use the military method, to draw them in and kill them by either a vast amount of firepower at once or a secure location with enough ammo. The problem with this has been stated though that you would need enough ammo for all of them. I am not just talking state that they were saying before though...... given the right scenario you could conceivably draw every zombie from a continent to your location. This is rare, but in North America you could have 100+ million of them... in Asia, that number could be a Billion. So, I can see where silence would be a key here.

But I think a better use of this type of thing could be to use it as a distraction, basically creating black holes in locations that could promote safety for yourself, or even something that could slowly take care of the zombies for you. The first one would be kinda of like creating land mines of distraction for them. Something that could conceivably work perfectly would be a solar powered radio in the window of an attic. It is unreachable by any zombies, but every day it could play something that would attract them. This would end up self propagating as the noise would not stop for a long time period. Now think about setting these up many miles from your safe haven, lets say 25 miles out in 8 directions along compass lines. One could possibly create a safe zone within the center of this... maybe. If that is uncomfortable, then maybe a line of these on a southern border 50 miles away to keep them away from you. Just a thought.

The other location that may benefit us could be setting a trap like this in a location that could draw the zombies to there death. maybe something suspended over a large cliff drawing them off the edge or maybe into a pit away from your property a ways, but have a remote kill option that can clean them out, maybe fire, but at a distance.

This also goes into your thought for a "noisy" (by the way, such an awesome thought, I may have to use that in some fiction). A recorded device is neat, but could be kind of a waste of batteries and an electronic device (which may be hard to find). An even better image is the thought of a wind up monkey clanging his cymbals to create noise. I know, these are just as rare as a tape recorder type of thing. Wind up children's toys could be used for a long time, as they can be found anywhere. But really after some time, it would most likely have to be simple wooden things, with a bell for noise and either a spring or elastic to load it so that it will make noise for a few minutes. These would just be cheap and disposable as once the zombie is hooked, he may create his own event.

Anyway, just some thoughts, but I love the science and thoughts on this. I will also most likely use these thoughts in my writing, because these behaviors make much more sense than some I have seen before.