Starting Firearm for an Exceptionally Small Woman

by **Rev** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:43 am

No this isn't about Shrapnel.

I have a coworker who is 4ft 5 and is interested in learning about firearms. Anyone else run into something similar with a family member or perhaps they've been involved training someone this small?

by **jamoni** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:47 am

Any youth model .22 rifle should do fine.

by **zombie_dog** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:07 am

I must have an evil streak.. My wife is 4'11" and I got her a glock 30 (sub combact .45) and a rem 570 (LR .22), she enjoys the .22 a bit more but the .45 is functional for somany reasons.

I'm personaly disaponted with the rim fire rem 570, lots of misfires, kills the joy of having a 30 rnd mag :evil:

by **Rev** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:10 am

She's a little frightened of firearms but she understands that her fear is illogical and as a responsible adult she should have at least a working knowledge. Her husband would like for her to be able to use one for self defense within the home and she's also interested for the same reason.

Been trying to find a decent instructor set up in our part of Ohio since she's told me she'd feel more comfortable learning about firearms in a group/classroom setting.

by **Frank** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:40 am

derringer

by **Silent Kube** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:11 am

The best cure for a fear of guns is actually learning to use one. My dad was a cop but still I was nervous around them until a friend took me shooting. Once I learned they weren't gonna bite or do anything I didn't tell them to I was a lot more comfortable. Now I don't leave the house without one. As for caliber, it's hard to go wrong with a .22 for a beginner.

by **MaconCJ7** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:53 am

.32 ACP would fill the role. Most of the pistols seem like they were designed for "small people" Tried talking my wife into one, but they are all to small for her comfort, she's 5'4".

by **Jeriah** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:11 am

jamoni wrote:Any youth model .22 rifle should do fine.

This. A .22 rifle is the best place to start any person on learning about firearms. Well, really an airgun is ideal, since they can practice at home with that, and then move up to a .22. Pistols are harder to learn and should come later, along with centerfire rifles. If I were training a new shooter, of any kind, I would do it in this order:

1. Inexpensive .177 air rifle, pump (not CO2). Can practice in a suburban backyard or even, if you're careful, in a basement etc. Ammo is so cheap it's almost free. It's important to emphasize that all the rules of safety apply even with an airgun. Practice basic marksmanship principles with this until you're pretty good at airgun-type ranges. (25 yards and in, I think? Maybe less?) Many airguns are sized for young adults so finding one to fit a 4' 5" woman should be no problem. The fact that it's "just a BB gun" will help her get over her fear, as long as you emphasize that she needs to treat it with the same respect she'd show any gun.

2. Any youth-model .22 rifle would be my next step. Personally I think that it makes some sort of sense for this to be a bolt-action, even a single-shot bolt-action (no magazine) such as the Crickett. The Crickett is about $100, and there's so little to it it's hard to go wrong. They're sized for kids so it should fit her fine. I think that not having to worry about a magazine etc. will make this a really easy step up from an airgun, and get her over her fear of firearms.

After that you could look at a mag-fed .22 bolt action, a .22 semi-auto, or a centerfire rifle. For a centerfire rifle I'd look at something very light weight; small-statured women tend to have limited upper body strength. The Kel-Tec SU16 is a limited platform but it is very light weight. An AR can be nice and light if you don't hang a bunch of junk on it, and the M4 stock can be adjusted to fit any height user.

by **Dasho101** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:24 am

My other half is well less than 5 foot. I started her on my old (like 1890s) youth 22 and after our first range trip she wanted to try my OSS in .45 and loved it. (you can tell that part cause now every time we go to the range together im the one with the 22)

by **Dave_M** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:34 am

Ruger MkI/II/III would be a good handgun to start with.

by **TacAir** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:47 pm

Good on ya for thinking of your co-worker. Being petite is no fun. As a younger man, I dated a lady who was under 5'. Very sensitive about her size - on that limited basis, I would suggest you be careful on how you refer to the training rifle and avoid terms like 'youth rifle'

My DIL is also of small stature, I got a Henry bolt 22 (single shot, striker type) Mini bolt. It is sold as a youth rifle, but is marked as just 'mini-bolt'. She took to it as a duck does to water - we had a blast on the range, and she is looking forward to our next session.

I know sounds dumb, but the strangest things can affect the way folks learn..

When she is ready, perhaps look for something in 45 Glock, the grip is significalntly smaller....

Good luck - let us know how it turns out, OK?

by **PistolPete** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:02 pm

My daughter is 5', so I understand finding something that small. Youth models are the way to go. Two guns I would recommend are the Ruger Bearcat, which is the only pistol I know of that's designed for small hands and a Henry Lever .22 youth model. My daughter can handle both of those comfortably and safely. The Bearcat is pricey, and it's a single action, but it's very solid little gun. It's almost silly how small the grip is on it. The youth Henry has a very short LOP (Length of Pull) and it fits little kids well, so it should work well.

Both of them fire affordable and easy to learn with .22lr, since they aren't auto-loaders you can even run .22 shorts or .22 longs in them if she has serious gun fear. Good luck! It's always awesome introducing people to shooting.

by **Dooms** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:03 pm

Love my little Henry Youth .22 Lever rifle. With a box of .22 shorts and a few metal swinging targets I've gotten quite a few gun-shy people to enjoy shooting.

by **real2all** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:01 pm

Hello,
I have the understanding that the person in question is 4ft, 5inches tall. That is tiny in my opinion, but not impossible to find the right weapon for that person. Two questions need to be answered first. First question is this for recreation or personal defence? Next question is hand gun or rifle? Hand gun, then small caliber like a 22Lr should be used for recreational purposes. Hand gun for personal defence, that should be a caliber that is center fire like a 25 caliber, 32 caliber, or even a 380 caliber. I love the 380 caliber, I just feels like a pretty decent round. The 380 caliber is also referred to as a 9 millimeter short. The 9mm and the 380 are almost or are the same bullet. Just the casing is different size and different amount of powder in the casing, this is why there is different ballistics for the two rounds (9mm and the .380 cal). Rifles are a different animal all together. I love the 10/22 Ruger. There is so much accessories for this rifle that it is so exciting. different stocks, different magazines and a variety of different types of ammo. This is a awesome weapon, this weapon is so awesome that I have two 10/22 Rugers with different stocks. One stock is a Dragunov stock with 3 30 round magazines, with a scope and sling. The other is a 10/22 Ruger with a "Muzzelite" bull-pup stock with 3, 25 round magazines, and a sling to go with it. The reason for the 25 round magazine instead of the 30 round magazine is the 30 round magazine does not seat in the magazine well because the magazine is curved and hit the handle of the stock.

by **USMCSergeant** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:21 pm

My wife is 4'9" on a tall day, and she learned on a Glock 26, Glock 30, and Mossberg 500. The 12 gauge was her favorite. She turned out to be a pretty good shot. Whatever you decide on starting with, good luck and be safe.

by **jor-el** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:01 pm

A couple of years back there was an officer coming through the Academy class at that size.

A big challenge to train since there was/is no provision for any alternatives to the service 9MM.

Don't know if she stayed on the job; she got assigned to East New York section of Brooklyn.

by **dallas** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:46 pm

Size is no problem. One of my students is about 4'9" and weighs 90#. She carries a Kahr 9mm and shoots it well.

I usually start them off with my 10/22 for rifle shooting and Ruger MKII for pistols. After the basics, no one has had a problem transitioning to larger weapons. The next step I do in shooting is a .380 pistol and Ar15. Then heavy 9mm and Ak. I then let them pick from a variety of weapons. H&K G3, M40A5, .40Sw, .45, 44mag, 10mm and so on. If they pick something that looks interesting to them, they are more motivated.

I would suggest a pump shotgun for home defense.

by **Manny** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:06 pm

I've used my Ruger 10/22 Charger with an Eotech to introduce a few new shooters to the sport and it works very well. The dot sight is functional from any distance and makes it a breeze for even the most inexperienced to get good results. There is little recoil and low noise, and using the bipod and shooting from a bench makes it very easy to shoot well.

Yeah, there are those who say it's cheating, that you should learn with irons and off hand and master the basics, but to introduce someone into shooting why NOT make it easy and fun to get them interested? After they see what they can do and get hooked then they can be schooled in the more difficult skills.

by **MacAttack** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:08 pm

Dave_M wrote:Ruger MkI/II/III would be a good handgun to start with.

I couldn't agree more. Any .22lr pistol along those lines is great.

When starting anyone out shooting I let them progress at their pace. If they want to move up to a larger size I let them try out my larger firearms, if not they are fine to stay right way they are.

As long as they are showing propor safety practices.

by **Lawmaker** » Thu May 05, 2011 10:57 am

Just bought a MKIII. Wow is it fun and easy to shoot. Crazy accurate.

by **Sgt Sagaara** » Sun May 29, 2011 10:35 pm

My GF has extremely small hands and she recently bought a Walther PK 380. She has no trouble holding it and it has almost no recoil so it is very easy for her to handle. The most important thing is natural sight alignment. The sights should line up for her with little to no conscious effort on her part. I never buy a firearm that doesn't feel completely natural to me for self defense.

by **armydawg11b** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:48 am

Ok guys, he mentioned "carrying for self defense." I dont think this little lady is going to be slinging a .22 rifle of any sort on a daily basis, and if you advised him to tell her to start with a .22 rifle for home defense, you should jump in front of the next huge face moving BOV you see! DO NOT EVEN THINK TO TELL HER TO USE A .22 RIFLE IN THE HOME FOR SELF DEFENSE. First of all you need something for the home that is maneuverable, dependable, and wont have enough power to shoot into someone else house, or through the defending persons entire home. The best home defense weapon is a shotgun, short one, I recomemed one of the 500 serious from Mossberg if you can handle it ( not for the lady the post is about, for all you guys who just realized your barret .50cal. is a bad idea for home defense.) For her however, something smaller, save money buy getting her something that can be her everyday carry, and used for home defense. A handgun. To start with I recommend a hi-point 9mm. Im sure that last sentence will be bashed by all you "bad ass" glock owners. Before you open your mouths, or keyboards rather, and release all those extremely awesome thoughts you have rolling around hear me out.
I started my wife off on a Hi-point 9mm, while she is not short, she is skinny, even tiny, she not only loved it , it brought her into a whole new ever growing love of ALL firearms. The reasons I chose hi-point are many, here they are. As a first weapon (training weapon) they are very inexpensive. She can drop it, scratch it, tear it up, what ever she wants, and didnt harm a beautiful new glock, sig, or S&W. Until she is used to handling it non stop , it will prob get banged up. Also, they all have an actual thumb safety switch, not a trigger break, or heel safety. That will help her feel more comfortable with the weapon. Another reason is the size, and weight of the hi-point hand guns will make almost everything else feel extremely light, and easy to handle. The kick for these weapons is not to bad and action is easy and smooth. These are very economical great starting weapons, and if need be will kill someone just as fast as anything else. It all comes down to training. The hi-point is now a back up weapon in our home, b/c for a daily carry my wife carries the Springfield XD .40 . She loves it, she is very comfortable with it and extremely accurate. Here come the reasons I do not allow her to carry the hi point as a daily carry weapon.
Hi points are inaccurate, from the frame to the barrel length, everything about the weapon is inaccurate. It is not so bad that you can not easily hit your targets while at any range, it is not something however I want my wife counting on for precision in a life or death moment. The second reason is hi point can be unreliable, at first that had a huge problem with jamming in between one and two rounds fired. this was a problem due to the magazine that came with the weapon at purchase. The new magazines and weapons do not have that problem. ( if you hi point has a problem send your mags back to them and they will replace it with the new and improved ones.) while this may seem like a huge problem its actually a decent one to have. In training this allows real training on malfunctions. that proves invaluable. the last main issue I have with hi-point firearms ( not just their 9mm) is that they are extremely hard to disassemble and clean, esp for someone new to weapons. Hi point recommends sending the weapon to the periodically for cleaning, that aint how I roll at all. I clean and service all my own weapons. Other than these little bumps in the road , THEY ARE GREAT WEAPONS TO START WITH.
BY all means get her a rifle, yes a smaller .22, to teach her the basic fundamentals of marksmanship. Do not let her think its all she needs for self defense. good luck man.

by **Frank the Tank** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:24 am

.32 long is a great low recoil personal protection round my brother carries a SnW one. .380 has more small options than the 9mm as well. But first you have to get them shooting......,
To get someone to enjoy shooting at first I highly recommend a ruger mark 2 .22 pistol, a 4.10 over under 'I use a Stevens and Fox' and the 10/.22. Then you set up colorful targets that will react when hit ie jug of milk full of food dye or stationarry clay pigeons. To get someone started out safety is number one but a cool factor never hurts.... No need to scare them with massive recoil and loud hyper velocity ammo on the first day.

by **Jeriah** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:35 am

Rev wrote:I have a coworker who is 4ft 5 and is interested in learning about firearms...She's a little frightened of firearms but she understands that her fear is illogical and as a responsible adult she should have at least a working knowledge. Her husband would like for her to be able to use one for self defense within the home and she's also interested for the same reason.

armydawg11b wrote:Ok guys, he mentioned "carrying for self defense." I dont think this little lady is going to be slinging a .22 rifle of any sort on a daily basis, and if you advised him to tell her to start with a .22 rifle for home defense, you should jump in front of the next huge face moving BOV you see! <snip> By all means get her a rifle, yes a smaller .22, to teach her the basic fundamentals of marksmanship. Do not let her think its all she needs for self defense. good luck man.

Nobody was advocating carrying a .22 rifle for self-defense, nor using one for home defense. Those of us who advocated a .22 rifle, or pistol, were advocating it as a training tool. The idea here is to get a very small-statured person with no experience with firearms interested in the subject. The .22 is the ideal training tool, because it's inexpensive to shoot, and the mild recoil makes it easier to diagnose, and treat, various problems like flinching, anticipating recoil, etc.

An airgun can be a great lead-in to firearms, because it's even milder, even quieter, even cheaper, and, perhaps most importantly, "just a BB gun." This can overcome a psychological objection to firearms, while being used to teach basic firearms safety and marksmanship.

Note the thread title: "Starting Firearm" not "Home Defense Firearm."

I would also suggest thinking of rifle and pistol as two different skill sets, and learning rifle first. A pistol is harder to shoot well than is a rifle. My suggestion would be along these lines:

1. Air rifle
2. .22 rifle
3. .22 pistol
4. Let her borrow/rent some centerfire arms and see what she likes. Start small: a pistol-caliber carbine, whether that means a levergun or a 9mm Hi-Point (the carbine, not the pistol), and a .380 or .32 pistol.

Rev wrote:Been trying to find a decent instructor set up in our part of Ohio since she's told me she'd feel more comfortable learning about firearms in a group/classroom setting.

Try asking at local shooting ranges, whether they offer basic safety and marksmanship classes, or know anyone who does.